Discus Breeding?

[Matt_Discus]

Hi all got some questions to ask: :) :) :)

- What will be the easiest Discus to breed?

- And how long will it take for it to mature and start Breeding?

- Is there anything that needs to be taken in consideration when breeding these?

- Any tank requirements needed exp. tank accessories/?

Thanks (In Advance) :D :D :D

[samir]

there is a lot of info here from various people, could help, also browse around a lot is covered in the breeding section
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6757

[mcloughlin2]

- What will be the easiest Discus to breed?

Go for some red turks or something similar at first as it makes it easier to get the fry to attach... :D



- And how long will it take for it to mature and start Breeding?

Normally around 12months old discus will start to breed but it may be another few months before they get it right...however some discus (mainly males) dont mature til 18months of age...you do get the odd pair however that will breed at about 8months old...


- Is there anything that needs to be taken in consideration when breeding these?

Good water, lots of food and you must remember that you are most likely not going to be making lots of money...
:wink:


- Any tank requirements needed exp. tank accessories/?

Just make sure you have a sponge filter, heater, spawning cone, siphon and test kits....

HTH

[norto]

Could someone tell if a PH of 5.8 would be alright or is that too acidic.Hardness is between 4-6ppm.
Regards,
Norto.

[Brilliant]

Could someone tell if a PH of 5.8 would be alright or is that too acidic.Hardness is between 4-6ppm.
Regards,
Norto.

Not bad. Watch your KH... beware of pH crash because your closer to the extreme.

My tanks range from 5.4pH to 6.4pH to 6.6 pH.

I have one bugger of a tank I have to redo because of the substrate that I cant get below 7.0pH. Oh yea...I have one community tank at 7.0pH.

I dont know what you mean 4-6ppm hardness but it sounds low...LOL. I work with ppm in TDS or degrees in GH.

[norto]

Thanks Brillant,
The reason I ask is I run a Spring Water Company and our water we think is the purest spring water on the market.The PH is a constant 5.8 it never varies as thats what it is when it comes out of the ground.The 4-6ppm is the TDS and it is also constant.We get a full analysis done on the water every 6 months to meet our standards and procedures that is how I know that it never varies.Some of the characteristics of this particular water is unbelivable but I wont bore you anymore.
Kind regards,
Norto.

[Merrilyn]

Norto, the water sounds wonderful. A pH of 5.8 is a bit on the low side, as today's tank bred discus are raised in about 6.8 to 7.2 degrees, even in the big breeding farms in Malaysia.

You would need to aclimate any new fish to your water over a period of time, gradually dropping the pH back over a week or so.

Mind you, it would be ideal if you wanted to keep wild discus or altum angels :P

For your normal tank bred fish, I think I'd be adding a bit of calcium to the water, in the form of shell grit or crushed coral to prevent pH crash.

I know your water never varies, but it will behave differently with fish adding acids in the form of urine, feces and uneaten fish food. Calcium will help to buffer the water.

Cheers,
Merrilyn.

[Brilliant]

Well said, CALCIUM....awesome recomendation. I used crushed coral in a media bag in my filter. 2/3 cup in my 90g/340l tank works good for me but this could be different for you.

My RO water alone is like the water you speak of....that is nice water you got there.

Now the only confusing bit here is egg hardness and fertilization.....but I think that is a factor with much much harder water.

[norto]

Thanks for the replies,
With regard to the shell grit is there a particular sort that I should use or would any Shell Grit work? And would I need to give it a wash before I placed it in the tank?
Kind Regards,
Norto. :)

[norto]

Merrylin,
Forgive me for sounding a bit thick here ,so what I should do is raise my PH up to about 6.8 and slowly bring it down with gradual water changes, is that what you are saying?
Thanks,
Norto.

[mcloughlin2]

Norto id reccommend using a buffer on the water..

IMO 5.8 is too low as once you have fish urinating etc it will be expected to have ph crases which will result in the burning of the fish's slime coat and posible death.. :shock:

And you will find very few fish that will do well in that water except for wild discus and altums..

Also if you ever buy a new fish, you will have to raise your ph before it is placed in the tank, then you will have to lower it again once its in...

HTH

[norto]

Thanks for that,
What would you reccomend as the best way to raise the PH.
thanks,
Norto.

[mcloughlin2]

Most probably calcium or you could purchase the buffers for amazonian tanks....

Asking your LFS on what they recommend would be your best bet... :D

[Merrilyn]

Sorry for the confusion norto. What I mean is that your water is perfect, except for the fact that the pH is a bit too low to be stable.

I'd raise it to at least 6.8 pH and keep it there. Don't allow it to fall below that. That means you would need to put your change water in a barrel, and bring the pH up to 6.8 before adding it to your tank.

Tank water gradually becomes acidic over time, due to the aforementioned fish waste. Buffering your tank water with calcium will prevent the pH from dropping down quickly.

HTH

[norto]

Thankyou Merrylin & Sam,
I have another question ( hope I am not boring you too much) Sometimes when we have a problem with our parrots having soft eggs and getting egg bound etc we make up blocks of plaster of paris and place it in their water as this is mostly calcium and as they drink the water they get the benefit of added calcium to help with their egg production, Now do you think that seeing how it is calcium if I put a block in the change barrell would this be enough? or is the calcium that you use to bring down PH more water soluble :?: I understand it would take some experimenting to make sure the PH is right.
Thanks again ,
Norto.

[norto]

I have had my tanks set up now for a week with nothing in them just a sponge filter and thats it I have been cycling the tank while I make the rest of the setup.Now I checked the PH of the water in the tanks last night and found that it has gone up quite a long way from about 5.8-7.4+ Its very interesting because up until now I thought that the PH would stay the same when there is nothing in the tank, could someone maybe enlighten me as to why this is so? I did an experiment also , as I mentioned I use our bottled Spring Water in the tanks so last night I compared a brand new bottle to the tank water and the PH in the bottle was what I thought it would be that being 5.8 , I left the lid off the bottle last night and checked it this morning and it is now the same as the tank water. I hope someone may be able to tell me why this is so ? if not doesn't matter I'l work around it.
Thanks,
Norto.

[dcarmau]

as water ages (over 24-48 hours), the pH goes up, The Lady and Sam could probably enlighten you as to why... I've all of a sudden had a mind blank! :D

[Brilliant]

co2 degassing

[norto]

Thats great thanks for that I just wanted to make sure I was not seeing things.Has anyone heard of or used "GEO LIQUID for DISCUS"?
Regards,
Norto. :)

[marg]

Norto,

Geo Liquid is O.K. if you only have a few small tanks, but gets expensive if you have large ones in view of the amounts of water changes we do with our Fish.

I have been using Prime in my tanks thanks to advice from Ladyred and have found it to be great. It's pretty economical and my Fish are happy. I would recommend you give it a go - I'm sure other Members would agree with me.

One of our sponsors (APW) stocks it.,

Marg.

[Liverpool_pete]

Norto

Prime is the way to go and if you keep an eye out for it you may be able to get it on special ( APW has it at the moment ). I buy the 2 ltr blottle as it lasts me a few months ( lots of tanks ) and it is the most economical as marge said.

[norto]

Thanks people I will give it a go the reason I asked is a mate of mine owns a pet shop in Bathurst and I was in there telling him that I was setting some breeding tanks up and he had some GEO there and gave me a sample that his rep had given him but as yet I have no fish and I have not used it.
Cheers,
Norto

[Brilliant]

Norto id reccommend using a buffer on the water..

IMO 5.8 is too low as once you have fish urinating etc it will be expected to have ph crases which will result in the burning of the fish's slime coat and posible death.. :shock:

And you will find very few fish that will do well in that water except for wild discus and altums..

Also if you ever buy a new fish, you will have to raise your ph before it is placed in the tank, then you will have to lower it again once its in...

HTH

What are we refering to? Amazonian waters? Or the tank the fish just came from? Its hard to recommend a pH without knowing...if it is discus in general I would be embarrased stating 5.8 is low, possibly 4.8? If we are talking about a community then 6 would be the low.

[Brilliant]

Norto

Prime is the way to go and if you keep an eye out for it you may be able to get it on special ( APW has it at the moment ). I buy the 2 ltr blottle as it lasts me a few months ( lots of tanks ) and it is the most economical as marge said.

Prime is the last thing you would dump into spring water like this. I believe this is just for people dumping chlorinated tap water into their tanks directly from the faucet.

[mcloughlin2]

Most probably calcium or you could purchase the buffers for amazonian tanks....

Asking your LFS on what they recommend would be your best bet... :D

You have quoted me wrong brillant ..

And what i meant was that there are buffers and minerals that can be purchased from a LFS that are made for amazonian tank (Perhaps im using the wrong word for it? :roll: ie: Geo liquid)..

In regards to the comment i made stating the ph will need to be raised then lowered if a new fish is purchased - i mean that you will most likely NOT find a breeder with there ph @ 5.8 let alone a fishshop so it would be very important unless you find someone that does have a ph at that to be able to bring your ph up a bit for the new fish to become acclimated to the low ph...

And mate if you would keep your discus at 4.8 (domesticated strains) you must be a very experianced fish keeper...would be pretty hard to prevent ph crashes...

Im sure alot of other forum members would agree with me that a 5.8 ph is abit too low..

If you read the quote below you will see that merrilyn agrees with me...so are you going to call her a idiot? :roll:


Norto, the water sounds wonderful. A pH of 5.8 is a bit on the low side, as today's tank bred discus are raised in about 6.8 to 7.2 degrees, even in the big breeding farms in Malaysia.

You would need to aclimate any new fish to your water over a period of time, gradually dropping the pH back over a week or so.

Mind you, it would be ideal if you wanted to keep wild discus or altum angels :P

For your normal tank bred fish, I think I'd be adding a bit of calcium to the water, in the form of shell grit or crushed coral to prevent pH crash.

I know your water never varies, but it will behave differently with fish adding acids in the form of urine, feces and uneaten fish food. Calcium will help to buffer the water.

Cheers,
Merrilyn.

Perhaps you need to re word your last two posts as not to sound like you think we are idiots.... :wink:

Sam...

[Brilliant]

Okdoke...

4 is low. 5.5-6.5 I would say is optimal.

Nitrification takes a hit from low pH but ammonia is also less toxic at the low end of the pH scale. I have notes directly from my meeting with Jack Wattley that states low pH will help cure a certain problem with Discus...low pH is stated to contribute to the fish slime coating which small fry feed off of. Low pH is a good thing. Alkaline is a bad thing.

Anything over 7 is alkaline. I would not ever recommend putting Discus into alkaline water. Anyone who says to do so has some proving to do. I am sorry the "my fish lived story..doesnt cut it.

Please dont take it personal. I am considering the fish being kept in its native waters. The water the fish is meant to be kept in.

Over some time reading I have noticed people with comments mentioning they dont even measure hardness or desire to keep it optimal. I will not be posting any longer.

[norto]

I did not mean to cause anamosity in the ranks here people but there is a lot of information out there and it can get a little confusing when you are starting out, I must say though there has been alot of people I have talked to face to face that back up exactly what Brillant says.Some of these people are successful breeders I think at the end of the day you need to make the conditions suit the fish that you have, if that means raising the PH thats what it means if it means having a low PH well then thats what it means also .
Cheers,
Norto :) :)

[jim from sydney]

I did not mean to cause anamosity in the ranks here people but there is a lot of information out there and it can get a little confusing when you are starting out, I must say though there has been alot of people I have talked to face to face that back up exactly what Brillant says.Some of these people are successful breeders I think at the end of the day you need to make the conditions suit the fish that you have, if that means raising the PH thats what it means if it means having a low PH well then thats what it means also .
Cheers,
Norto :) :)

Norto.....just to confuse you a bit more.......

what I feel one should do is this.......

one asks and one listens and then analyse what information given may be suitable for individual use.

we need to remember one most important criteria, which is .....that methods and means that are suitable for one, are not always suitable for another........i hope that makes sense to you.

remember also..... its a hobby after all, full of fun and enjoyment...and above all, has lots of challenges..

have fun

[samir]

norto a ph of 6.5-7.0 would be a safer bet unless you have the time and the ability to keep a 5.8 ph from going down. the best way is to keep things simple and practical rather than turning discus keeping into a saga. most discus bred today have for generations, not experienced pH's of 5.8. your hardnes is ok, 4-5 is what most exporters keep them at, though i think 1-3 is supposed to be optimum. you need to check your ph regularly for a while to make sure that it does not crash, if it stays stable thats fine, if not you need to use some kind of buffer. just do whats practical for you. they will do fine in the 6.5 -7.2 range and will breed sucessfully,and as long as you dont have rapid ph swings you will be fine.You should read merrilyn's article on breeding, its nice and simple and all you will need.
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3118

[Brilliant]

LOL....this is too comical. I had to post one last time.

Amazonian buffer...this is way too funny also...IMO additives are nothing but junk especially pH down buffers. We are keeping soft acidic water fish here. Use RO or peat, not some miracle buffer that skyrockets your TDS. Or wait whats TDS?...LOL From the looks of it no one even knows what they are putting in their tanks.

I am going through another post right now about pH crash and this false fear....the fear of misunderstanding is more like it.

If you want to get scientific I can point you to the thread.

I am injecting co2 at pH already less then 7...the breeding tips warns of pH crash with pH of 7...this is hilarious. Yet the water is being changed often..LMAO...I am sorry I realized this is generalized but this is a load of BS. Number one...pH wont crash...I use deionized water with little to no KH which means no buffer...I inject co2. My pH is hardly crashed....I fell into this trap with another Discus forum full of misinformation. I actually aded baking soda to my tank..LMAO....I am sick of this misinformation.

I for one think Discus are a special fish with special needs. One need being the soft acidic water habitat. They should be provided with this soft acidic water habitat.

mcloughlin2, notice I did not call you an idiot. I didnt mean to suggest such a thing. I apologize and this isnt a personal attack. I basically stated that if you continue beliveing what your told with hard facts supporting otherwise...well then ...yes your being idiotic.

Norto, Please I mean you no discomfort. I am not trying to associate myself with you or speak for you. I do hope you have fun....but please not at the expense of these beautiful fish. From your comments I do think your talking to the right people.

[mcloughlin2]

I have simply learned almost everything i know from the breeders like merrilyn (Ladyred), Ben, Crocky, Nicholas76, proteus and mac..

If you want to say they have given the wrong advice - along with many articles and books then go ahead...

But it is not you that has bred hundreds of discus, it is them!

So perhaps instead of following "Scientific" advice :roll: you should give something else a try...

Newbies to discus do not need to be made fearless because someone tells them that ph crashes are not possible and that a ph of 4.4 is OK...

You can think what you think but the breeders in asia are not keeping there tanks below 5 or even at 5....discus these days have no clue what water they should be kept in....they could be kept in water that has a ph of 7 and they would still be fine...

And if you going to say this site is full of misinformation then please do not post again...this forum is one of the best available and is very very helpful to us hobbiests...

JMO

[Brilliant]

But it is not you that has bred hundreds of discus, it is them!


Not yet.
Makes me not want to breed these fish. Look what hands they will fall into. Someone dumping in tap water with Prime..LMAO.



So perhaps instead of following "Scientific" advice :roll: you should give something else a try...


Like what? SOmething easier...more convienient? No thanks



Newbies to discus do not need to be made fearless because someone tells them that ph crashes are not possible and that a ph of 4.4 is OK...


Fearless no? False information to create support for an off parameter? I think thats BS.



You can think what you think but the breeders in asia are not keeping there tanks below 5 or even at 5....discus these days have no clue what water they should be kept in....they could be kept in water that has a ph of 7 and they would still be fine...


7 is different then whats been said. 7 is neutral. I would prefer below 7.

Keep in mind a tank that you keep a discus in is a discus tank...not a community tank. Reason being? Discus deserve special water parameters...like the ones Ive been ranting about. You need to make your tank discus centric. All other fish should revolve around the discus if you dont keep a species tank.



And if you going to say this site is full of misinformation then please do not post again...this forum is one of the best available and is very very helpful to us hobbiests...

JMO

Reading the comment above about the discus and they dont know where they are makes me sick and think of them as a bunch of butchers. The fact that you or no one else gets this feeling makes me even more sick. I am too pasionate about this "original fish" not some tank bred acclimated man made junk. I felt bad about getting my pigeons this just goes way to far.

The way these fish reproduces and feed their young states way too much evidence alone against keeping the fish in akaline water. The fact that someone would suggest otherwise...is well...I just cant say it.

You can take your comments and proud yourself of riding the forum of such a discus keeper.

[dcarmau]

LOL....this is too comical. I had to post one last time.

Amazonian buffer...this is way too funny also...IMO additives are nothing but junk especially pH down buffers. We are keeping soft acidic water fish here. Use RO or peat, not some miracle buffer that skyrockets your TDS. Or wait whats TDS?...LOL From the looks of it no one even knows what they are putting in their tanks.


well? I'm going to ask, I'm new to Discus and therefore have no problem being sneered at... What's TDS?



I am going through another post right now about pH crash and this false fear....the fear of misunderstanding is more like it.

If you want to get scientific I can point you to the thread.

I am injecting co2 at pH already less then 7...the breeding tips warns of pH crash with pH of 7...this is hilarious. Yet the water is being changed often..LMAO...I am sorry I realized this is generalized but this is a load of BS. Number one...pH wont crash...I use deionized water with little to no KH which means no buffer...I inject co2. My pH is hardly crashed....I fell into this trap with another Discus forum full of misinformation. I actually aded baking soda to my tank..LMAO....I am sick of this misinformation.


Well? give us this correct information you apparently have. Again, Newbie, ergo: interested.


I for one think Discus are a special fish with special needs. One need being the soft acidic water habitat. They should be provided with this soft acidic water habitat.

agreed, That's definitely the preferred environment, you say you don't get crashes in your pH... how regularly do you change the water? I know I've suffered pH crashes in the past, in fact, I have to buffer my tank, perform a 50% water change with 7.0pH water, and overnight I drop back to 6.2.



mcloughlin2, notice I did not call you an idiot. I didnt mean to suggest such a thing. I apologize and this isnt a personal attack. I basically stated that if you continue beliveing what your told with hard facts supporting otherwise...well then ...yes your being idiotic.


er... well, not my place to talk about this except to say that until presented with the evidence you have, you can call me an idiot for sure, I've not found better help on the web to date.

[samir]

Not yet.
Makes me not want to breed these fish. Look what hands they will fall into. Someone dumping in tap water with Prime..LMAO.

i seriously doubt that you'll be too successful with your breeding. problem being you know too much. i dont think any of the successful breeders on this forum claim to know everything about discus, and thats why they are successful. an open mind that soaks in information will go a longer way than a smart @rse know it all attitude.

[norto]

Seems I've caused a bit of a blue here (sorry about that) I think what i will do is get some fish put them in my water and see what happens, I hope to get some in the next few days i have just finished my set up complete with semi auto water changer. So i will get some fish and then no doubt I will be back looking for more advice when I have these little suckers swimming in my tanks.
Thanks,
Norto

[marg]

For your information Brilliant one of the most successful Breeders on this Forum who is really well respected and is passionate about his Fish (Crocky) uses tap Water and no Conditioners in it either.

His Fish are all very healthy (I know that for a fact because I have been to his house and seen his Fish and IMO some of them are out of this world).

I use tap Water and Prime (Mainly because our water here is pretty crappy) and I religoiusly test my water to make sure that they live in the best of conditions. My Fish are very healthy - and spawning regularly. The only reason that they haven't reared a spawn yet is due to the fact that they are all young and inexperienced, but they are progressing nicely and I don't think that it is far off.

If you read the Posts on the Forum you will see some of Crocky's Fish and their offspring. He doesn't just breed the occasional batch - he usually has two or three lots going at the one time. As a matter of fact Ladyred has even sent some of her pairs to him that she couldn't get to reproduce successfully and he has managed to rear young from them.

What I am saying is that different things work for different people. How abouts you keep an open mind - you might learn something. Maybe you'll be able to get your Discus to Breed.

Read some of Jack Wattleys' Books - he recommends keeping Discus at a PH of 6.5 to 7.


Marg.

[Crocky]

I find if ph is under 6.5 my wrigglers died off 2 days after attaching.My ph is between 6.9 to 7.5 straight out of the tap with no water conditioners and my fish love it,but only small w/c.

brad

[Brilliant]

well? I'm going to ask, I'm new to Discus and therefore have no problem being sneered at... What's TDS?

Total Disolved Solids. Its the combination of GH and KH in your water. This is typically expressed in parts per million or ppm.



Well? give us this correct information you apparently have. Again, Newbie, ergo: interested.

The aquarium water will not "crash". Water does not turn to acid immediatly..that is what is even being suggested in this thread. Some laughed and said I suggested a pH of 4.4. I would consider this low. Water changes will prevent the water from "crashing" due to fish waste and other factors. This is also why we maintain GH. Which is somehow confused with KH and false statements being made about a so called "crash". I can say the "crash" scare did save me a few hundred bucks. I never went out a wasted money ona pH controller based on this.



agreed, That's definitely the preferred environment, you say you don't get crashes in your pH... how regularly do you change the water? I know I've suffered pH crashes in the past, in fact, I have to buffer my tank, perform a 50% water change with 7.0pH water, and overnight I drop back to 6.2.

What equipment are you using? What is you pH the same time the next day? Are you stating that your pH will keep dropping at that alarming rate?



er... well, not my place to talk about this except to say that until presented with the evidence you have, you can call me an idiot for sure, I've not found better help on the web to date.

Evidence? Oh you mean someone going hey this Discus lived in a pH of 8, lets all keep them there? Yeah OK.

At first I thought this was different. Nothing personal I just intend on keeping my fish differently and feel its the right way. I think certain fish are different and require different parameters. I think ive explained those parameters and my reasoning for suggesting them.

[Brilliant]

If we get into how I keep my Discus and what I think of it... I know I am not the first.

If we get into my water and compare against yours this could get ugly. Hey if your blessed with good tap water then good for you. I am not anti tap water and havent blasted that. I realized that some tap waters are unchlorinated and fresh.

The original point is that 5.8 pH source water is or isnt optimal for breeding. I am biased towards an acidic environment and stated my two cents. My pH just happens to be low and rises when in the tank from the crushed coral buffer. I guess I assume everyone is doing things right ;)

PS I have Jack Wattleys book. Its also signed.

[dcarmau]

Evidence? Oh you mean someone going hey this Discus lived in a pH of 8, lets all keep them there? Yeah OK.


Well... I was thinking more along the lines of the thread you were going to point people to if they wanted to get "scientific".

On a byline, I thought that gH was a measure of total hardness and as such was a combination of kH and other substances... at least that's what my test kit tells me...

[Brilliant]

Well... I was thinking more along the lines of the thread you were going to point people to if they wanted to get "scientific".

On a byline, I thought that gH was a measure of total hardness and as such was a combination of kH and other substances... at least that's what my test kit tells me...

I was actually refereing to the "crash" myth. I was reading two threads that involved this same topic.

TDS would be a measure of "total hardness".

If you would like I can email you my favorites. You can read the links I have saved. Or do a google search for TDS GH and KH. You will find enough information yourself about KH and GH.

[Brilliant]

i seriously doubt that you'll be too successful with your breeding. problem being you know too much. i dont think any of the successful breeders on this forum claim to know everything about discus, and thats why they are successful. an open mind that soaks in information will go a longer way than a smart @rse know it all attitude.

You have a sticky on this forum that suggest using pH down to lower pH. At first your suggesting RO then I think you know what your talking about then you mention pH down. LMAO I used that when I didnt know any better. Back when I usefd to add baking soda beacuse of ph "crash".

A combination of this quote and that sticky should be enough to seal this one up.

Its stickies and suggestions is what my intire gripe is about. Sorry to act like a smart @rse but I think the correct information should be given.

I hate to be a prick but when I was said to be calling the gurus idiots and recommending 4.8pH...i just had to finish things.

[mcloughlin2]

What can i say..... :roll:

Seems your going to stick to your own methods, no matter what is said and so will i...

But im sure, even if they dont want to be invloved in this thread that there are several breeders that believe in ph crashes....



Seems I've caused a bit of a blue here (sorry about that) I think what i will do is get some fish put them in my water and see what happens, I hope to get some in the next few days i have just finished my set up complete with semi auto water changer. So i will get some fish and then no doubt I will be back looking for more advice when I have these little suckers swimming in my tanks.
Thanks,
Norto

Mate these little disagreements help gather quite alot of helpful information IMO...no need to be sorry :D

Tommorrow when i can be bothered i will add to this thread again... :lol:

[samir]

hehe the article i posted had an "about the author " at the end, but he probably got his degrees at the wrong uni. you're not very good at reading either ? i dont use ro or ph down, i've even stopped using a water ager. thank god my fish havent heard of you or they would have just flipped over and died like they were supposed to.

[Robdog]

I don't think it's necessary to make it personal samir.
These topics come up all the time whether it be on this forum or any other and there is never a totally correct and totally incorrect way of doing these things.

What's better-skiing or snowboarding, standup or booger, missionary or doggystyle? Who cares!

If your fish are doing great, show great colours, produce young up the yingyang in a ph of 52 then that's awesome. Tell the beginners how and why you think and leave it at that. If you're at ph1.7 and your fish don't dissolve and get all of the above then do the same.
Facts are facts though.
Discus come from the Amazon and sections thereof.
The Amazon water is soft and acidic.
A wild discus would need very similar water conditions to survive or very gradual alterations.
Most of us don't keep wild discus or anything even close to a wild discus so there is to be expected differences in water params. Ours would stick out like dogs balls on a chicken if they were in the big house.

And doggy style is better!
and of course the usual wimp disclaimer that usually should go at the end of one of these posts to be refered to later- Just My Honest Opinion :roll:

[Nathan]

good post rob, i have to agree with you

[samir]

ok ok, i apologise, Brilliant. but ..... oh well.... i'll just leave it at an apology.... :)

[Brilliant]

I don't think it's necessary to make it personal samir.
These topics come up all the time whether it be on this forum or any other and there is never a totally correct and totally incorrect way of doing these things.

What's better-skiing or snowboarding, standup or booger, missionary or doggystyle? Who cares!

If your fish are doing great, show great colours, produce young up the yingyang in a ph of 52 then that's awesome. Tell the beginners how and why you think and leave it at that. If you're at ph1.7 and your fish don't dissolve and get all of the above then do the same.
Facts are facts though.
Discus come from the Amazon and sections thereof.
The Amazon water is soft and acidic.
A wild discus would need very similar water conditions to survive or very gradual alterations.
Most of us don't keep wild discus or anything even close to a wild discus so there is to be expected differences in water params. Ours would stick out like dogs balls on a chicken if they were in the big house.

And doggy style is better!
and of course the usual wimp disclaimer that usually should go at the end of one of these posts to be refered to later- Just My Honest Opinion :roll:

I do like the comic relief here, I do understand a bit more this is like me yelling at you for driving a car without intermitten wipers. I do understand that the personal comments are because there is nothing left to say in defense. For some I will explain a little bit more.

Well I think the pH I am suggesting is going lower and lower as the post get laid on me. But I said no akaline water...which would be anything over neutral...which is 7.

Take this real world situation, try to understand what my thinking is here. Lets say there is a market for a product. There is two major brand names of that product. A new product with a different brand name comes out nobody knows the name... someone tests it first then starts a following. The first person is held in regards because of their savvy to identify such a thing.

This isnt a new product this is a living thing. This isnt a matter of opinion like snow boarding style. This is fact. The water parameters of this fish's native habitat are facts. This should not be altered. The acidic environment benefits the fish, this is fact.

I know that tank water will not "crash" with 0-1 KH. This is false. In the event it wasnt false changing water would reverse these effects.

I have lets say .5-1 KH and I also inject co2. I have not crashed...in fact very stable.
I add crushed coral to maintain GH for a few reasons I dont think I need to explain. This is also where my little if any KH comes from.

Think of the native environment. I use the native environment parameters as a set of guidelines. Physically rainwater, which is basically what Discus live in, is much like distilled water...which is also similar to deionized water. This water has very little solids. Now this is where the suggestion of very frequent water changes comes. I dont think I have to explain the pH more do I?

I see where the information is being generalized but I just cant find reasoning for this. The high pH thing is a "lazy thing" brought about by "lazy hobbyists". I feel that this fish should not be "acclimated" and I would be embarassed to associate myself with this "acclimated" Discus.

If you have a well which provides soft acidic water, I am with you...dump it in. If you have chlorinated tap water with a standing pH of 8 then your out of luck I am sorry go collect Africans...or buy the right equipment. I have fairly soft acidic tap water and I still use RO/DI. I apologize for my strong stance on this.

[Robdog]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying Brilliant but I think some of your views may be in the "extremist" range of discus keeping. That's not to say that you are wrong by any means. Good on you for going to these levels of care and giving your guys "the best" living conditions that you are able.

On the other hand, you may be blessed with soft acidic tap water but to almost forbid others who are maybe not as lucky or blessed and do the best they can but with slightly different parameters the privilage of keeping such a beautiful animal is a bit harsh. The success of some of the breeders on this forum is testament that their fish are not suffering or uncomfortable in any way and are actually thriving. Surely their success speaks for itself.

I don't think the others in this thread are trying to change your mind or practises when it comes to caring for your fish. That would be extremely arrogant and not in the nature of an advice forum such as this. I think they would appreciate the same.

Let's keep it fun eh?

[Robdog]

Whilst I'm at it, I would like to retract a previous statement I made. :oops:

In light of recent events, I would like to state that "spoons" is actually better than doggy! :lol:

[norto]

I totally agree with your post Robdog what ever works works.I thank you brillant for being an independant source of info. Now doggy or spoons I'll get back to you shortly.
Norto. :wink:

[mcloughlin2]

Robdog - you have put it better then i could have! :D

On the other hand, remeber this is a family forum :shock: :lol: :lol:

[Brilliant]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying Brilliant but I think some of your views may be in the "extremist" range of discus keeping. That's not to say that you are wrong by any means. Good on you for going to these levels of care and giving your guys "the best" living conditions that you are able.

On the other hand, you may be blessed with soft acidic tap water but to almost forbid others who are maybe not as lucky or blessed and do the best they can but with slightly different parameters the privilage of keeping such a beautiful animal is a bit harsh. The success of some of the breeders on this forum is testament that their fish are not suffering or uncomfortable in any way and are actually thriving. Surely their success speaks for itself.

I don't think the others in this thread are trying to change your mind or practises when it comes to caring for your fish. That would be extremely arrogant and not in the nature of an advice forum such as this. I think they would appreciate the same.

Let's keep it fun eh?

I think your a great mediator.

If my tap water was crappy with 500+ppm TDS and 8+pH I would still get the same water I am getting now from my RO/DI. I think the unit is dreamy and use the water on my other fish tanks too. Its even being claimed better for aquatic plants..not only plants like Tonia. My plants are growing fine.

I am not making any magical water here. I am using it right from the tap using this filter. I dont know why everyone makes it seem so hard. Discus love it. I dont mean to exclude other with tap water of 8pH...just buy RO. Get water delivered...something..I dont think they should be acclimated other means should be used. I feel this acclimation is an insult to the breed.

I realize now the "crash" factor is different in the bare bottom tank. With a large amount of Discus the water will be more unstable then what I am familiar with. I assume this "crash" factor has boosted up the recommended pH for some reason.

I dont think anyone is trying to change my practices I just want people to know where this fish came from what water it lives in what water I feel it should be kept in and how to make it that way easily. As far as my harsh comments go...its hard to cut the lawn without damaging the grass...I dont know how to say it. I apologize again for my extreme stance. Thank you for your post..I have this feeling the fish should be kept a certain way I take it as if the person does not care when they suggest other parameters and other bad things.

[dcarmau]

well... how expensive is RO/DI water? is it something a student (of which I know there are a few here) could afford, really? My point is that while RO water is ideal, it's also -really- water-wasteful, and more expensive than many can really afford.

[Merrilyn]

Many of you know that I have been absent for a couple of weeks, but I return and find this thread, full of contradictions, so pardon me, but I just have to butt in here. First I read this :-




Not bad. Watch your KH... beware of pH crash because your closer to the extreme.

My tanks range from 5.4pH to 6.4pH to 6.6 pH.

I have one bugger of a tank I have to redo because of the substrate that I cant get below 7.0pH. Oh yea...I have one community tank at 7.0pH.

I dont know what you mean 4-6ppm hardness but it sounds low...LOL. I work with ppm in TDS or degrees in GH.

and then it's followed several posts later with this :-

I know that tank water will not "crash" with 0-1 KH. This is false. In the event it wasnt false changing water would reverse these effects.

I have lets say .5-1 KH and I also inject co2. I have not crashed...in fact very stable.
I add crushed coral to maintain GH for a few reasons I dont think I need to explain. This is also where my little if any KH comes from.



I don't quite understand what you're trying to say Brilliant. You advise norto to watch for a pH crash because he's on the low side, and then you state that "tank water will not crash".

Hate to be a spoil sport, but I think you need to go back to that Wattley book and read it thoroughly. Jack recommends a ph of around 7 and no longer keeps his tanks below that. The one time he suggests lowering the pH dramatically is to fight discus plague, a horrible disease which affects the slime coating of discus (and which I have experienced, and survived).

KH is carbonate hardness, a buffering agent for water. Without it in the water, a pH crash is not only possible, but very likely. I have experienced it myself, as early as last week when my tank dropped from pH of 6.8 to under 5 in 3 days. A crash not possible ????????? I beg to differ. It has happened, and that was in planted tank.

Keep an open mind. I've been breeding discus for 30 years and I still don't believe I know all there is to know.

A closed mind is a very dangerous thing.

[samir]

d).
KH is carbonate hardness, a buffering agent for water. Without it in the water, a pH crash is not only possible, but very likely.
"but very likely" is that a euphemism for inevitable ? :) . nice to see you back. :)

[Robdog]

Finally some sanity reintroduced into procedings! :wink:
Welcome back mezza!
Not sure why I just called you mezza :?

[Brilliant]

well... how expensive is RO/DI water? is it something a student (of which I know there are a few here) could afford, really? My point is that while RO water is ideal, it's also -really- water-wasteful, and more expensive than many can really afford.

You picked Discus?...Cost? Wrong arguement. Neways my RO unit was pretty cheap and cartridges are available and getting even better ewith ecb over gac.

Wasteful? See water change requirements of Discus...RO may bypass anbd use water to make water but you get better water. Unless you pumping spring water from your tap you cant beat it.

[Brilliant]

Many of you know that I have been absent for a couple of weeks, but I return and find this thread, full of contradictions, so pardon me, but I just have to butt in here. First I read this :-




Not bad. Watch your KH... beware of pH crash because your closer to the extreme.

My tanks range from 5.4pH to 6.4pH to 6.6 pH.

I have one bugger of a tank I have to redo because of the substrate that I cant get below 7.0pH. Oh yea...I have one community tank at 7.0pH.

I dont know what you mean 4-6ppm hardness but it sounds low...LOL. I work with ppm in TDS or degrees in GH.

and then it's followed several posts later with this :-

I know that tank water will not "crash" with 0-1 KH. This is false. In the event it wasnt false changing water would reverse these effects.

I have lets say .5-1 KH and I also inject co2. I have not crashed...in fact very stable.
I add crushed coral to maintain GH for a few reasons I dont think I need to explain. This is also where my little if any KH comes from.



I don't quite understand what you're trying to say Brilliant. You advise norto to watch for a pH crash because he's on the low side, and then you state that "tank water will not crash".

Hate to be a spoil sport, but I think you need to go back to that Wattley book and read it thoroughly. Jack recommends a ph of around 7 and no longer keeps his tanks below that. The one time he suggests lowering the pH dramatically is to fight discus plague, a horrible disease which affects the slime coating of discus (and which I have experienced, and survived).

KH is carbonate hardness, a buffering agent for water. Without it in the water, a pH crash is not only possible, but very likely. I have experienced it myself, as early as last week when my tank dropped from pH of 6.8 to under 5 in 3 days. A crash not possible ????????? I beg to differ. It has happened, and that was in planted tank.

Keep an open mind. I've been breeding discus for 30 years and I still don't believe I know all there is to know.

A closed mind is a very dangerous thing.

I guess I was trying to be "generalized" at first.

Low side of life. pH will go so low before something will die. The whole arguement that the 5.8pH wasnt bad...bad to start with is more like it. People started recommending "Discus buffers" and prime and I went ballistic.

How far under 5 did it go?
I didnt say a crash wasnt possible did I? I said its been used falsly to support a higher PH.

I could share my experiences with pH7.0+ while tampering with crushed coral but it would seem biased.

Anyway my whole point is keep Discus out of akaline water (7.0pH+) they belong in soft acidic water. I dont wish to associate myself witha forum that suggests otherwise.

[samir]

I dont wish to associate myself with a forum that suggests otherwise.
:roll: for someone thats so desparate to disassociate themselves from the topic/forum , you sure keep coming back with a lot of posts.
dcarmau dont even bother with the RO, you tap water will probably be soft enough, just check the website of your provider for hardness values etc. prime is fine, ph of around 6.5 - 7.2 will be fine though you are likely to have less problems in the long run by keeping it lower than that. depends what you can afford or have the time for.

[goldenpigeon]

You picked Discus?...Cost? Wrong arguement.

dude, discus dont cost that much unless you are going for some of the newer strains. i am a student, im 15 years old, im not rich, "daddy" doesnt buy me everything... i survive on my own steam and i would definetly prefer it be that way. i have over 20 discus most being adults and many other fish.

several discus in comparison to an RO unit could be quite a bit cheaper. many people with a basic knowledge of fish and half decent water out of the tap could keep discus in excellent condition and very happy without your "RO water and all your scientific crap". and this can be done on a lower budget.

cheers
David

[samir]

i am a student, im 15 years old
GP you're only 15 :D LOL . your fish are great, good stuff keep it up.

[goldenpigeon]

geeez dude, dont make me feel outcast at all! hahaha may i ask what the "LOL" was for? ;)

im glad u like my fish mate, im proud of them :)



cheers
David

[dcarmau]

samir, thanks! me personally, I'm on Rainwater anyway. however most people are not.

Brilliant, dear, "Cost" is always the right argument, or have you not been paying attention to our Globalized Marketplace... as for :-



Wasteful? See water change requirements of Discus...RO may bypass anbd use water to make water but you get better water. Unless you pumping spring water from your tap you cant beat it.


While it ain't springwater, I -am- pumping rainwater. But that wasn't about me. It was about all the students/pensioners/dole people/whoever who populate the forum. People you would tell "If you can't RO you can't Discus". RO is -fine-... -if- you can afford it, -if- parents/partners don't go insane due to the water bill (well, more insane than they were when they found out what Discus do to it in general) yes, Discus do waste a lot of water, but I see no point in using that as justification to waste more water. it's like saying "I'm already spending $1000 on this system, so I should spend $3000 on it instead." would you do that if it was money and computers? I wouldn't, and I'm a geek! Not when there are more sensible alternatives available, like Prime etc. There are, quite simply, other ways to get suitable water.

I'd like to think I give my discus a reasonable home, at least from a month ago onwards (think the date I found the forum). While I haven't always been the best Discus-keeper, I'm getting better.

I'm very tempted to say what I think of you:!: buuut... this being a "nice" forum and all, I'll refrain. However I will say that your attitude seems hugely elitist, and you sound like it's your way or no way, which just isn't the case.

Guys... just a thought, but if we ignore this thread, it'll sink to the bottom of the tank and be forgotten... I wonder if that's not such a bad idea.

[samir]

I'm very tempted to say what I think of you:!: buuut... this being a "nice" forum and all, I'll refrain. However I will say that your attitude seems hugely elitist, and you sound like it's your way or no way, which just isn't the case.

i think you might need to rephrase the "elite" part, could be misconstrued as a positive. how about arrogant ? and whats that word that rhymes with trick ?

[Robdog]

I started off half agreeing with some of the things that Brilliant has put forward. Now he's just being a tool and is not worth listening to.
Seeya later Brilliant. :wave

[Brilliant]

Yes I totaly understand. This is like me argueing about fat people. We all know its bad...we all know its wrong. But people still get fat.

The reason I kept posting is to respond to everyones post instead of turning away as if I was wrong.

I dont wish to come here and suck all of the fun out of it like this was turned into. I feel this is a special fish with special needs. I feel you should know about it and not keep them in akaline water with god knows what hardness.

So much for this fish being the "King of the Aquarium" around here.

See-Ya! :D

[Robdog]

The success of some of the breeders on this forum is testament that their fish are not suffering or uncomfortable in any way and are actually thriving. Surely their success speaks for itself.

I like the sound of my own voice but this is ridiculous.
Obviously the fish knows best. If a fish is threatened, feels that something is wrong ie water quality, parameters etc, or the eggs are infertile they pull the eggs. The success of these breeders is testament that the water they are kept in is suitable for discus to live and procreate. THEY OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO PROBLEM IN NEAR NEUTRAL WATER.

Brilliant, you keep your fish in your water and us in ours.

[OscarManAlpha]

See-Ya! :D

It's a shame, that your leaving.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Brilliant]

The success of some of the breeders on this forum is testament that their fish are not suffering or uncomfortable in any way and are actually thriving. Surely their success speaks for itself.

I like the sound of my own voice but this is ridiculous.
Obviously the fish knows best. If a fish is threatened, feels that something is wrong ie water quality, parameters etc, or the eggs are infertile they pull the eggs. The success of these breeders is testament that the water they are kept in is suitable for discus to live and procreate. THEY OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO PROBLEM IN NEAR NEUTRAL WATER.

Brilliant, you keep your fish in your water and us in ours.

Once again this seems to confuse things a bit.

Please...
all successful breeders breeding in pH 7.0+ please come here to support this BS so I can laugh at you too.

I am keeping m Discus in soft acidic water, now your suggesting this is not what your keeping your Discus in? LMAO...anyways.

Why dont you slouches go start an African cichlid forum suggesting low hardness and pH. Oh wait its easy to raise hardness and pH.

There is no support for your arguement. Thats why it ended like this. After thus thread I think singapor is a huge "puppy mill" of Discus. I will have to talk with some other I hold in regards to find the trusth because I cant seem to get consistent info here.

Dont worry I dont plan on posting outside this thread and maybe throw a pic if someone prods me fior a pic again.

[Brilliant]

For those of you that actually care here a good link to start you off. Some of the people in this post should pay attention to #4.
http://www.tdsmeter.com/abouttds.html

Or

PM me I would be happ to help you find the right information. I am reall a nice gu. I just get upset when I see someone keeping their pets in off paraneters.

If this was a native animal to Austrailia would this be a different story? Hmmm....

[Brilliant]

several discus in comparison to an RO unit could be quite a bit cheaper. many people with a basic knowledge of fish and half decent water out of the tap could keep discus in excellent condition and very happy without your "RO water and all your scientific crap". and this can be done on a lower budget.

cheers
David

OK cool so your saing that instead of buying the correct equipment oull just buy more Discus. Notice I didnt say RO was the only wa to go.

"Scientific crap"...uhh. Biology?...scientific crap? This isnt intertwined with aquarium keeping? Uhh..OK. Go keep your pretty little fish. Cya. Sorry to bother you with this information. Sorry it conflicted with your budget...LMAO THIS SAYS IT ALL!

[norto]

Brillant,
When I first got involved in this thread I thought that you were a good source of independant info now it seems you just like pushing your own wheel barrow and don't give a stuff about anybody elses opinion, the thing is Brillant you are not the only one in this world that has ever kept Discus nor will you ever be the only one that keeps them.If a fish,Parrot,Wombat Kangaroo,Aardvark anything ever breeds in captivity it means they are more than happy with the enviroment that they are in other wise they would not bring any offspring into this world it's called survival.I suggest that if you are going to stay so opinionated you should take you and your fish to another forum.
Norto :walk

[goldenpigeon]

OK cool so your saing that instead of buying the correct equipment oull just buy more Discus. Notice I didnt say RO was the only wa to go.

"Scientific crap"...uhh. Biology?...scientific crap? This isnt intertwined with aquarium keeping? Uhh..OK. Go keep your pretty little fish. Cya. Sorry to bother you with this information. Sorry it conflicted with your budget...LMAO THIS SAYS IT ALL!

WTF? no im not saying buy more discus, im saying that for someone with a lower budget it is better for them to go out a buy a few discus and all the basic quipment (filter heater,uv maybe) and get into discus that way rather than spending all their cash on say an RO unit and having nothing left over for everything else!

most domesticated discus DONT have to be kept in a ph lower than 7.0, many can be kept in 7.5. we know this because they dont turn black and float upside down, instead they BREED in it which obviously says its ok. so either the fish have no idea what ph they are supposed to be in or they are fine with the water.

im not saying science doesnt have anything to do with it but not everyone has a doctors in biology!

i have achieved very well in fish keeping, probably better than you have (not sure about your situation), through t all i have kept a very open mind and listened to the people THAT KNOW BEST, not been stubourn like you and said "its my way or the highway". just respect others oppinions and you may learn something. there are several ways of keeping fish and all of themhave their ups and downs. if it were that simple we would all be profesional fish keepers!

[dachoo]

Hi everyone
As most of you know, I've not kept discus in Australia for a very long time (6 months the most) But I'm on the forum most day reading & looking at the,exspecially the photos section.It use to be so much..easy to breed discus back in Malaysia. Until I'm here in Australia that I'm found the WATER really (rocket scientist ) Plus the hi tech product some people use. I suppose all this will definately make life easier for us to keep a piece of nature beauty in our home. But at the end of the day isn't what we really want coming home from work is to relax in front of the tank. I also attach some photos of some of my discus, they been with me for only 3 months but is very comforting when I put my hand into the tank. Was not this the first intention that most of us first keep discus.

Photos ( buddy & wife)

David C

[Brilliant]

Brillant,
When I first got involved in this thread I thought that you were a good source of independant info now it seems you just like pushing your own wheel barrow and don't give a stuff about anybody elses opinion, the thing is Brillant you are not the only one in this world that has ever kept Discus nor will you ever be the only one that keeps them.If a fish,Parrot,Wombat Kangaroo,Aardvark anything ever breeds in captivity it means they are more than happy with the enviroment that they are in other wise they would not bring any offspring into this world it's called survival.I suggest that if you are going to stay so opinionated you should take you and your fish to another forum.
Norto :walk

Wheres all the posts from successful breeders?

Not more "your too hard on us" posts. Sorry to ruin the fun. I didnt buy Discus for a wall ornament. Perhaps I am so harsh because the opposition has nothing to say but "my fish lived" and lots of posts about breeders breeding Discus in high pH.

I never said Discus would die in higher pH. Lets try to keep my gripe contained instead of trying to blow it up with each posts that passes.

Norto, I could really care less. I am not here to make friends, isnt that obvious? I realize I am a "bummer" and I am ruining the fun with reality that Discus are soft acidic water fish and it water may not come out of the faucet that way. I am sorry.

One "positive" thing I will do is credit this board for allowing me to post and keeping this post active. Either it hasnt been noticed or it deserves some credit. Other Discus boards just like to wash thier hands of "old school" Discus keepers. I received private messages on the last forum from people who aggreed with me actually scared to say what I say because of the grief they will get from other members.

[Brilliant]

WTF? no im not saying buy more discus, im saying that for someone with a lower budget it is better for them to go out a buy a few discus and all the basic quipment (filter heater,uv maybe) and get into discus that way rather than spending all their cash on say an RO unit and having nothing left over for everything else!

most domesticated discus DONT have to be kept in a ph lower than 7.0, many can be kept in 7.5. we know this because they dont turn black and float upside down, instead they BREED in it which obviously says its ok. so either the fish have no idea what ph they are supposed to be in or they are fine with the water.

im not saying science doesnt have anything to do with it but not everyone has a doctors in biology!

i have achieved very well in fish keeping, probably better than you have (not sure about your situation), through t all i have kept a very open mind and listened to the people THAT KNOW BEST, not been stubourn like you and said "its my way or the highway". just respect others oppinions and you may learn something. there are several ways of keeping fish and all of themhave their ups and downs. if it were that simple we would all be profesional fish keepers!

First off my RO unit cost me about the same as a years worth of conditioners...other treatments and it happen to come with a years worth of filters. Your barking up the wrong tree.

As far as Discus not turning black and floating...I guess thats where the "scientific crap" seems to beat out your evindence. I follow "scientific crap" and native water parameters as my guidelines. Judging by the amount of information on the internet that supports my side of the arguement here, I would just have to say I am correct here. Said it before and Ill say it again...the "my fish lived story" doesnt cut it for me.

I know your young, I know your upset with me. Please understand this isnt a personal thing. I do not think I am stubborn I think I am right and have plenty of "scientific crap" to back me up.

PS...I listened to my headphones in science class ;)

[redghan]

Just had to post in this..
So you all know im reading too.. :D

Im not going to argue with anyone..
But ph Crashes happen, (Just ask my old angle fish, if you can talk to the dead) and i would have thought that RO water would be more prone to this as it is stripped of most of the stuff in it.

[Cuong]

Brilliant,
Obviously you're a discus purist of some sorts. Unfortunately alot of purists are closed minded to other practices and underestimate the adaptive capabilities of living organisms. Yes, the origins of discus do originate in warm, soft, acidic waters but to go as far as demanding and expecting all discus (including domesticated strains) to be kept under these conditions is not only not feasible but ignoring natural dynamics of parameters.
I want you to ask you these questions.
Do you simulate rain seaons for your fish?
Do you keep driftwood and allow tannins in your water?
Do you recreate root structures for your fish?
If you're not recreating the EXACT conditions that these wild fish live in, then you're just one of us.

[Brilliant]

OK for those of you that arent scientists. I will throw this equation at you to help you understand my logic better.

Discus are soft acidic water fish+Proper aquarium keepng etiquette, which is the whole idea of keeping fish in its native parameters-The fish can survive in off parameters-difficulty to manipulate water parameters=Brilliant is right

[Brilliant]

Brilliant,
Obviously you're a discus purist of some sorts. Unfortunately alot of purists are closed minded to other practices and underestimate the adaptive capabilities of living organisms. Yes, the origins of discus do originate in warm, soft, acidic waters but to go as far as demanding and expecting all discus (including domesticated strains) to be kept under these conditions is not only not feasible but ignoring natural dynamics of parameters.
I want you to ask you these questions.
Do you simulate rain seaons for your fish?
Do you keep driftwood and allow tannins in your water?
Do you recreate root structures for your fish?
If you're not recreating the EXACT conditions that these wild fish live in, then you're just one of us.

Want some pics?
Yes I have "rain seasons" LMAO Ill explain more later..I hope to atleast.
Yes I have driftwood and I keep black water.
Yes I have root structures. See first comment.

I am not trying to make you look like a bunch of idiots for doing this just for arguing with me and letting this madness continue. I am the one being closed minded? I have provided enough rebuttals in this post with nothing more then a "my fish lived" and a I know your right and I kinda agree with you. LMAO!

[Cuong]

Yes please.

[samir]

I know your young, I know your upset with me. Please understand this isnt a personal thing. I do not think I am stubborn I think I am right and have plenty of "scientific crap" to back me up.
PS...I listened to my headphones in science class ;)
its you who sound like the 15 year old. if you're so much the scientist, here's a suggestion, build a rocket, put yourself and your discus in it, and blast off to Uranus. you're not stubborn, you're arrogant and probably, a teenager or in your early 20's. if you're older than that i suggest the above mentioned rocket trip.
:wave

[Brilliant]

Yes please.


Well heres my source water.


heres my newest piece of driftwood. I also have a smaller more decorative piece in the main tank now. I also use black water additives

[redghan]

Ive had silver sharks at a PH of 8.2 with my Africans... They were fine..

My mate had electric yellows in with his angle fish for a long time
(angles didnt like them much) before we both learnt that there is a different water paramater for each fish (ill admit it was a few years ago) and i remember that tank being kept at a PH of 7 cause thats what we
thought all fish should be kept at. Thankfully i know more now, i have a
great book called "Discus for the Perfectionness" written by JACK WATTLY
and off the top of my head there are at least 3 people kepping discus (adults) at a PH of 7.5......and this book was published in 1991..

My point is there is a PH range for fish but they can go above or beloow that range if kept at the same range.

[redghan]

Crap i got sucked in.... :oops:

[Cuong]

What? The gravel is too big :lol: No overhanging branches? :wink: :P
I take my hat off to you Brilliant for trying, but ultimately you're exactly in the same position as us in terms of trying to recreate the Amazon. An impossible feat.

So what's this about the rain season?

[Brilliant]

Ive had silver sharks at a PH of 8.2 with my Africans... They were fine..

My mate had electric yellows in with his angle fish for a long time
(angles didnt like them much) before we both learnt that there is a different water paramater for each fish (ill admit it was a few years ago) and i remember that tank being kept at a PH of 7 cause thats what we
thought all fish should be kept at. Thankfully i know more now, i have a
great book called "Discus for the Perfectionness" written by JACK WATTLY
and off the top of my head there are at least 3 people kepping discus (adults) at a PH of 7.5......and this book was published in 1991..

My point is there is a PH range for fish but they can go above or beloow that range if kept at the same range.

Hi thanks for posting. Great book.

I took my picture of the signed copy of it because people made fun of me.


Just cause I like you guys and I think your beginning to understand here is this for your eyes to feast on. As if sorry...nice talking to you about the Apistos...

[redghan]

Whats a apisto cac got to do with this?? :D

He is a nice looking fish.. but were is his body colour?
Is there an Albino strain?

What country are you in Brilliant?

[Brilliant]

Whats a apisto cac got to do with this?? :D

He is a nice looking fish.. but were is his body colour?
Is there an Albino strain?

What country are you in Brilliant?

It is called Gold. In real eyes the fish has a nice golden coloration starting from underneath its "chin". Its a very nice strain. I also have Orange Flash.


I just wanted to offer this as some kind of peace offering. I am not a prick. I think this is important information for you all to know.

[Brilliant]

What? The gravel is too big :lol: No overhanging branches? :wink: :P
I take my hat off to you Brilliant for trying, but ultimately you're exactly in the same position as us in terms of trying to recreate the Amazon. An impossible feat.

So what's this about the rain season?

I actually had a bigger root structure in the tank but removed it because the Discus seemed to get stuck in it sometimes and stress.

LMAO the gravel is too big...and Red Pigeons Bloods eating from my hand is very natural...LMAO...I do understand that this is the benefits of tank breeding...and I admit I am enjoying those benefits...but lets not go overboard.

The real rain season would cause stress IMO. I do slightly colder water changes and keep a strict lighting schedule. If I am reading and understanding things correctly there isnt eactly a "rainy season" but one that lacks rain or in other words more rain then not.

[redghan]

i have an orange flash to.. Well i had a feamle for about 8 months and
then finlay got my hands on a male, he lasted 3 days then died (got killed) the female lasted anouther 2 weeks.. The fry i have from these two are the most agresive fish ive ever seen they are 5 weeks old and already very territorial.

[Brilliant]

i have an orange flash to.. Well i had a feamle for about 8 months and
then finlay got my hands on a male, he lasted 3 days then died (got killed) the female lasted anouther 2 weeks.. The fry i have from these two are the most agresive fish ive ever seen they are 5 weeks old and already very territorial.

Strange I am keeping a colony in a very small footprint 36"x18". I think they are sweethearts. This is the second time I have heard this but I still think its strange. I have two very nice males its a shame you are in the other side of the world. I am in the US.

[redghan]

So i take it your not in Oz..

Yeh i wanted to get a Apisto tank going.. But i jumped to
discus to quickly..lol...

One of my old young ones..

[redghan]

the dad and mum of that fry

[Brilliant]

So i take it your not in Oz..

Yeh i wanted to get a Apisto tank going.. But i jumped to
discus to quickly..lol...

One of my old young ones..


Nope not in Oz, this isnt a fairy tale!

Nice pic. Want me to resize it?

Heres my new Apisto tank!


I wish I had a pic of "Muscles" to show you. I named that one "Mick".

[redghan]

nah its cool, but you could probly tell exactly what type of cac that is..
I know hes a cac but instead of Orange or red he is yellow.

[Cuong]

LMAO the gravel is too big...and Red Pigeons Bloods eating from my hand is very natural...LMAO...I do understand that this is the benefits of tank breeding...and I admit I am enjoying those benefits...but lets not go overboard.
I was joking, but my point still remains.

[Brilliant]

LMAO the gravel is too big...and Red Pigeons Bloods eating from my hand is very natural...LMAO...I do understand that this is the benefits of tank breeding...and I admit I am enjoying those benefits...but lets not go overboard.
I was joking, but my point still remains.

:twisted: overboard= off water parameters...see my "Discus Equation" above. :wink:

[Brilliant]

Just had to post in this..
So you all know im reading too.. :D

Im not going to argue with anyone..
But ph Crashes happen, (Just ask my old angle fish, if you can talk to the dead) and i would have thought that RO water would be more prone to this as it is stripped of most of the stuff in it.

I realize that pH crash is much more of a problem with the bare bottom tank. This is a tank with only water and fish and a bubbling sponge to convert ammonia and nitrites to nitrates.




I know your water never varies, but it will behave differently with fish adding acids in the form of urine, feces and uneaten fish food. Calcium will help to buffer the water.

Cheers,
Merrilyn.

Did anyone know that ammonia is less toxic in lower pH?
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/water/ammonia.htm
This link isnt specific to Discus...Koi ponds...and isnt the best advice for keeping Discus but the "scientific crap" about ammonia and pH is relative.

[Brilliant]

nah its cool, but you could probly tell exactly what type of cac that is..
I know hes a cac but instead of Orange or red he is yellow.

I bet it speaks German:!:

[Robdog]

:roll: Please give this guy Super God Moderator status. He got a hummer from some bloke that signed his year book. Big deal!
You're right Brilliant. We are wrong. :roll:

[Robdog]

No offence redghan, but those Caca's look a little "butch".

[samir]

:( :( :( :( nobody gave me a signed book. all i got are these little fish swimming around my non RO water tank, with unsuitable water parameters. :(

[Robdog]

I order you to cull them this instant! :twisted: We can't have beastly devil spawn living amongst God's creatures

[samir]

i'll just let them die off on their own. let me get my sadistic pleasure by watching them slowly wilt away :twisted: . i've upped the PH to a deadly 7.2 just to be sure. :twisted:

[goldenpigeon]

LOL u guys crack me up! samir i think you took a leaf out of the wrong book keeping them in such unlivable conditions! im complaining to the RSPCA!

like rob said i think you should cull them, dont put them through a long slow death which should take about 12 to 17 years in those conditions! :twisted:

[dcarmau]

For those of you that actually care here a good link to start you off. Some of the people in this post should pay attention to #4.
http://www.tdsmeter.com/abouttds.html

Or

PM me I would be happ to help you find the right information. I am reall a nice gu. I just get upset when I see someone keeping their pets in off paraneters.

If this was a native animal to Austrailia would this be a different story? Hmmm....

Again with this insistence that people PM you!

just put the links up and be done with it. If they're to "prohibited" sites then request permission from the mods. I'm sure the thread has enough attention now that they'd allow it.



First off my RO unit cost me about the same as a years worth of conditioners...other treatments and it happen to come with a years worth of filters. Your barking up the wrong tree.


Well... so we know that it's cost you that much to begin the RO process.
"Cost" isn't just the amount you pay for the machine, but the amount you pay for all the components that contribute to the final product.

how much is it costing you in "wasted" water on top of the initial outlay?

How much are replacement filters?



As far as Discus not turning black and floating...I guess thats where the "scientific crap" seems to beat out your evindence. I follow "scientific crap" and native water parameters as my guidelines. Judging by the amount of information on the internet that supports my side of the arguement here, I would just have to say I am correct here. Said it before and Ill say it again...the "my fish lived story" doesnt cut it for me.

kiddo, we're not talking about fish simply not dying, we're talking about them breeding. prolifically in many cases. Do fish breed in water they don't -really- like?

and even Science once started at the "my fish lived" stage. Science is a set of observations, observed repeatedly. We have made these observations, and had them independently corroborated by others on the forum. Therefore, although we have no "Doctor" before our names, we have made some scientific observations of our own.

mind you, one breeder (in my area) who has reccomended pH's of between 6.5 and 7.5 -is- qualified with a Degree in Applied Science in Aquaculture, from the Uni of Tasmania, who have performed experiments using Discus as test subjects, and also were (I believe) one of the first groups to breed seahorses in captivity.



I know your young, I know your upset with me. Please understand this isnt a personal thing. I do not think I am stubborn I think I am right and have plenty of "scientific crap" to back me up.


So show it to us. I mean lay it out there for all and sundry to see!

lose this "Illuminati" act and just post the **** links!
(I masked it myself peeps, but I -am- frustrated)



PS...I listened to my headphones in science class Wink


Headphones in Science class? what the... ?

Learning by audiotape or something?
I listened to my -teacher- in science class, not to mention read textbooks.

[Robdog]

I do understand a bit more this is like me yelling at you for driving a car without intermitten wipers.

I never really understood this :? Have you got a website, scientific proof or signed book from your local mechanic to explain?

[samir]

ROFLMAO :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Brilliant]

I do understand a bit more this is like me yelling at you for driving a car without intermitten wipers.

I never really understood this :? Have you got a website, scientific proof or signed book from your local mechanic to explain?

What? Oh your just being a fool.

Thank you everypone for the past ignorant posts. They support your side of this tremendously.

Again more BS about these fake breeders. Have a great day!

[Brilliant]

For those of you that actually care here a good link to start you off. Some of the people in this post should pay attention to #4.
http://www.tdsmeter.com/abouttds.html

Or

PM me I would be happ to help you find the right information. I am reall a nice gu. I just get upset when I see someone keeping their pets in off paraneters.

If this was a native animal to Austrailia would this be a different story? Hmmm....

Again with this insistence that people PM you!

just put the links up and be done with it. If they're to "prohibited" sites then request permission from the mods. I'm sure the thread has enough attention now that they'd allow it.



First off my RO unit cost me about the same as a years worth of conditioners...other treatments and it happen to come with a years worth of filters. Your barking up the wrong tree.


Well... so we know that it's cost you that much to begin the RO process.
"Cost" isn't just the amount you pay for the machine, but the amount you pay for all the components that contribute to the final product.

how much is it costing you in "wasted" water on top of the initial outlay?

How much are replacement filters?



As far as Discus not turning black and floating...I guess thats where the "scientific crap" seems to beat out your evindence. I follow "scientific crap" and native water parameters as my guidelines. Judging by the amount of information on the internet that supports my side of the arguement here, I would just have to say I am correct here. Said it before and Ill say it again...the "my fish lived story" doesnt cut it for me.

kiddo, we're not talking about fish simply not dying, we're talking about them breeding. prolifically in many cases. Do fish breed in water they don't -really- like?

and even Science once started at the "my fish lived" stage. Science is a set of observations, observed repeatedly. We have made these observations, and had them independently corroborated by others on the forum. Therefore, although we have no "Doctor" before our names, we have made some scientific observations of our own.

mind you, one breeder (in my area) who has reccomended pH's of between 6.5 and 7.5 -is- qualified with a Degree in Applied Science in Aquaculture, from the Uni of Tasmania, who have performed experiments using Discus as test subjects, and also were (I believe) one of the first groups to breed seahorses in captivity.



I know your young, I know your upset with me. Please understand this isnt a personal thing. I do not think I am stubborn I think I am right and have plenty of "scientific crap" to back me up.


So show it to us. I mean lay it out there for all and sundry to see!

lose this "Illuminati" act and just post the **** links!
(I masked it myself peeps, but I -am- frustrated)



PS...I listened to my headphones in science class Wink


Headphones in Science class? what the... ?

Learning by audiotape or something?
I listened to my -teacher- in science class, not to mention read textbooks.

I said if people wanted to PM me I would be willing to answer their questions. I realize your just trying to cling onto anything but please read what I type before you blow it up.

Yah I didnt pay attention much in science class...meaning I am not some science wizz...IMO this is prerequisite knowledge one should obtain before keeping Discus.

Replacement filters are $26 & $33. For my two seperate units. I only use one for the aquarium the other is backup and drinking water. If I want to replace the DI resin it could cost $15-20 per year.

What links do you want? To breeders in the US? One who specifically states not to put the Discus in alkaline water?
Here is one of the best Discus sources in the states. Ilinked you right to the page. Could you be more clear what it is your looking for? Could I provide any more information to make you look like an ignorant ass anymore? Your ignorant comments will overshadow my harsh recomendations to someone intelligent...thank you.
http://www.discushatchery.com/discusprices.html

[OscarManAlpha]

Brilliant by name, insert the obvious here __________________by nature.

[OscarManAlpha]

What? Oh your just being a fool.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:monkey

[Brilliant]

You all sound like a bunch of children. I admit I must have mistaken the lack of knowledge for ignorance. I am sorry for being harsh. Because of the opposition I received about my suggestions I thought you were intentionally being like this.

Please continue to discredit yourselves. I think this forum is more about sticking up for your "mate" then your Discus...

Happy Fishkeeping! Err... :wink:

[Brilliant]

Brilliant by name, insert the obvious here __________________by nature.

Funny if you talked to the aquarium society I just donated to they would say something different. Thanks for showing your true colors for me.

I hate to brag but since I keep supplying supportive evidence against the constant BS I figured Id just pour some more on.

[goldenpigeon]

what supporting evidence? you donated to an aquarium society... where is the link? if i send them an email will they reply saying you did?

[musichocmilkshake]

I for one am disappointed in your link to the breeder in the States. A one liner just doesn't cut it for me as far as scientific evidence is concerned.
I do however admire you Brilliant for your persistence in the view that there is only one way to do things, my only problem is you are starting to sound like a fundamentalist and we have enough of them as it is.

I think you are wasted on this forum - why not take on global warming??-you know, something to sink your teeth into AND of help to us all - not only my tank bred discus, but those of the Amazon?

[Robdog]

His link is actually what any reputable LFS should say to their customers.
"I keep my tanks at such an such a ph and you should make your tank the same so as not to shock the fish with the ph change"
Nowhere does it say that it is set in stone and this is the ONLY way to keep discus.
But by all means, keep providing us with links to hillbilly discus farms and aquarium societies that are funded by you.

[samir]

What links do you want? To breeders in the US? One who specifically states not to put the Discus in alkaline water?
Here is one of the best Discus sources in the states. Ilinked you right to the page. Could you be more clear what it is your looking for? Could I provide any more information to make you look like an ignorant butt anymore? Your ignorant comments will overshadow my harsh recomendations to someone intelligent...thank you.
http://www.discushatchery.com/discusprices.html

firstly i doubt if someone intelligent would take your "harsh"(since when did harsh mean crap) advice. secondly the breeder you mentioned, "one of the best Discus sources in the states" well if thats the best you got, you guys have a lot of catching up to do with the asian breeders, maybe you need to import some fish from people on the forum coz the fish here make them look like culls
i think you should drop the arrogant attitude, the best discus in the world are produced in asia and they do it similar to what people in the forum do.
here's a link for you http://www.yelp.com/biz/0eIRjszFrk3kyv0dvZmAtQ i suggest get in touch with the guy, his name's Herman Chan and he's been around since the 60's. you might learn a thing or two for a change, besides the wattley name dropping and that signed book.

[goldenpigeon]

samir i thought exactly the same thing when i saw that pic!

for one of the best sources of discus you have over there they have an aweful amount of parrot and invert head discus! even one of the fish with a heap of babies on its back was skinny, parrot head and kinked up fins!

wasnt to impressed by that gallery at all! usually you would expect they would put the nicest fish in the gallery.... i wonder if that was the best they have.... what does their everyday stock look like? :shock: :lol:

here were my favorite pics from it :D

[Brilliant]

I for one am disappointed in your link to the breeder in the States. A one liner just doesn't cut it for me as far as scientific evidence is concerned.
I do however admire you Brilliant for your persistence in the view that there is only one way to do things, my only problem is you are starting to sound like a fundamentalist and we have enough of them as it is.

I think you are wasted on this forum - why not take on global warming??-you know, something to sink your teeth into AND of help to us all - not only my tank bred discus, but those of the Amazon?

Your right. While reading about pH and effects on heterotrophic bacteria ive come to a assumption that these waters can not break down the harmful wastes that are being taken there. I think the ecosystem can not withstand the abuse because of these different parameters.

I would strongly support anything like this and I think you have a great suggestion. Thank you.

[Brilliant]

samir i thought exactly the same thing when i saw that pic!

for one of the best sources of discus you have over there they have an aweful amount of parrot and invert head discus! even one of the fish with a heap of babies on its back was skinny, parrot head and kinked up fins!

wasnt to impressed by that gallery at all! usually you would expect they would put the nicest fish in the gallery.... i wonder if that was the best they have.... what does their everyday stock look like? :shock: :lol:

here were my favorite pics from it :D

Strange... see the rate my pair thread. They were babies when I took those pics. None of my fish are grown yet. You keep holding samirs hand while he continues to cut and paste his way to kingdom come! K. Thx.

[Brilliant]

I for one am disappointed in your link to the breeder in the States. A one liner just doesn't cut it for me as far as scientific evidence is concerned.
I do however admire you Brilliant for your persistence in the view that there is only one way to do things, my only problem is you are starting to sound like a fundamentalist and we have enough of them as it is.


Ohhh. A respected breeder.
I do speak for myself but this is one source that stuck in my head.
I have to provide proof to you that Symphysodon aequifasciatus is a soft acidic water fish? Are you serious? Is this guy serious? LMAO!

This isnt religion. This is fishkeeping. Proper fishkeeping etiquette is to match the parameters of the native waters.

Instead of me being extreme I think the opposition is kidding themselves. Much like a cigarette smoker that says tossing butts isnt littering.

[Brilliant]

:( :( :( :( nobody gave me a signed book. all i got are these little fish swimming around my non RO water tank, with unsuitable water parameters. :(

Go copy and paste some more. It makes you look good. :P

One day Samir will be copying and pasting my articles then you will all kick urselves in the heads. I wont take it personal tho. From the last posts you just sound like a bunch of kids having fun with Discus. OK enjoy cya later. Happy fishkeeping sorry to bother you.

Please dont post any more negative things.

[G-1000]

Wow!

I just stumbled across this thread.

Yeah samir - you are such a crappy discus breeder! All those healthy young fry attached to the parents perfectly and then you have them in such a harsh pH as 7.2! What are you thinking?

G

[Robdog]

I have to provide proof to you that Symphysodon aequifasciatus is a soft acidic water fish?

:roll: You don't have to prove this. It's a given. Symphysodon aequifasciatus in its natural form is an acidic softwater fish that has proven to be adaptable to varied water conditions.
There has been studies done on fish from the Amazon River basin that have proven that fish such as corydoras and yes, discus are capable of withstanding ph values in the range of ph3.0-7. This leaves the modern aquarist the ability to chose which part of that range is most suitable, whether it be for convenience(the majority of people here) or someone so passionate?? to recreating natural biotopes.

I'm done here.

[goldenpigeon]

Strange... see the rate my pair thread. They were babies when I took those pics. None of my fish are grown yet. You keep holding samirs hand while he continues to cut and paste his way to kingdom come! K. Thx.

no im not holding anyones hand, never have never will.

i was just about to paste my images when i saw samir had posted first.

look at those images of the fish from the breeder that is "one of the most respected breeders over your way" and tell me those are satisfactory in comparison to something being bred in singapore.

if that guy is a respected breeder and those are his fish... what does it tell you? that he is not as knowledgeable as other sources as he is breeding fish some of which i think were culls.


what does your pair of fish have to do with anything? so you have a pair... big woop, i have several pairs :)

if your going to keep saying cya later then why havnt you gone already? or is it you would prefer to come back and flog your dead horse?

[Crocky]

Hi Goldenpigeon

I don't think your holding anyones hand,but I see your comment (i will never hold anyones hand).Mate I would take that comment back girls your age love that sort of stuff.Well they did in the late 80's early 90's, but maybe things have change in the last 10 to 15 years LOL.

[goldenpigeon]

lol crocky, i dont think there is anyone else my age here? let along in my area... ill just have to hope the girls dont see it hehe

things havnt changed with the hand holding....

ok ill hold girls hands but im definetly not holding Samirs hand..... :twisted:

[marg]

Hi Guys,

Just stumbled on this thread after being away for a while - Brilliant you really crack me up - you and Rytis should get married - you would both get on so well, as neither of you will listen to what anyone has to say.

Why don't you go on a hunt and find him wherever he is and leave all of us murderous torturers of Discus alone so that we can continue thinking up ways to breed baby Discus in totally horrible water conditions.

We know that the only reason they are breeding in these conditions is because they are sex mainacs and can't help themselves, they just have to procreate - it's obviously not because we keep them in near perfect water conditions.

Give us all a break - go join up with Rytis :evil: :evil: :evil: !!!!!!!!!!!!. Although it is not befitting a person of my age, I would have to jump on my soapbox and say that you are a Wally Wanker judging by the posts I have been reading.

Marg.

[samir]

:lol: :lol: :lol: maybe hold brilliant's hand, it may change your life forever, have you rushing out the door to buy an RO unit :P
brilliant i'll copy your articles , but the mods refuse to add a bullshyt section to the forum. :cry: and on top of that GP wont hold my hand :cry: :cry: :cry:

[marg]

Samir,

remember when you were a kid and you did or said something really dumb - and your Mum said "brilliant, just brilliant" in a rather sarcastic tone?

Well I say "brilliant, just brilliant - and aptly named also!!!".

(couldn't help myself with that "brilliant" thought :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ).,

Marg.

[samir]

LOL Marg :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[G-1000]

Hahaha

Y'all cracking me up here - keep it nice please kiddies hehehe

G

[goldenpigeon]

ok samir ill hold your hand... only while no one is looking thoagh... hehe

[nicholas76]

Hi Guys,

Just stumbled on this thread after being away for a while - Brilliant you really crack me up - you and Rytis should get married - you would both get on so well, as neither of you will listen to what anyone has to say.

Marg.

whose Rytis?

[samir]

Hi Guys,

Just stumbled on this thread after being away for a while - Brilliant you really crack me up - you and Rytis should get married - you would both get on so well, as neither of you will listen to what anyone has to say.

Marg.

whose Rytis?

Brilliant's boyfriend, or is it the other way around. the're getting married and will live happily ever after in a ph of 4.2.

[Lichan]

Hi Guys,

Just stumbled on this thread after being away for a while - Brilliant you really crack me up - you and Rytis should get married - you would both get on so well, as neither of you will listen to what anyone has to say.

Marg.

whose Rytis?


from Brilliant:-
Rytis. WOW! Thank you soo much. This means soo much because your tank was a legend at this forum I used to frequent. I was looking for larger pics of your tank for a long time all over the place then I saw it in the photo gallery here. Needless to say it was an exciting find and this compliment floors me.

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7499&start=0

What do you mean "who's Rytis" everyone knows Rytis don't they??... after all he is apparently a legend where Brilliant comes from.... HMM might explain an awefull lot. :lol:

[goldenpigeon]

yer but they will have a mid life crisis when their ph suddenly rises to 7.2, luckily with the god sent invention of RO they will survive! then they will live happily ever after! hehe

[samir]

Rytis. WOW! Thank you soo much. This means soo much because your tank was a legend at this forum I used to frequent. I was looking for larger pics of your tank for a long time all over the place then I saw it in the photo gallery here. Needless to say it was an exciting find and this compliment floors me.

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7499&start=0


What do you mean "who's Rytis" everyone knows Rytis don't they??... after all he is apparently a legend where Brilliant comes from.... HMM might explain an awefull lot. :lol:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes that definitely explains it. ROFLMAO

[marg]

And their offspring will be known as the Brilliant-Rytis's :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .,

Marg.

[Lichan]

:shock: well done Marg...hahaha :lol: :lol:

[nicholas76]

could you add the word black some place in that strain name?? lmao

[marg]

Oh, O.K.

The Brilliant - Black Rytis's :shock: .

Brilliants gonna say "Brilliant" when he comes on line :lol: :lol: :lol: ,

Marg.

[OscarManAlpha]

whose Rytis?

A mystical character from a far far away place.

As legend has it, this Rytis was a danger to any form of aquatic life in the galaxy.

Sorry guy's I have no links to back this up.............you just have to take it on face value.

Cheers,

Mark

[goldenpigeon]

hahaha marg thats champion!

i think their last name should be The Black-Rytilliant's hehe

i believe you OMA! hehe

[samir]

Oh, O.K.

The Brilliant - Black Rytis's :shock: .

Brilliants gonna say "Brilliant" when he comes on line :lol: :lol: :lol: ,

Marg.
Marg you're splitting my sides. Stop please :lol: :lol: :lol:




Sorry guy's I have no links to back this up.............you just have to take it on face value.
Cheers,
Mark
Ok so you dont have links,
but do you have ??
a) Scientific evidence.
b) A signed yearbook.
c) a claimed interview with Jack Wattley
d) A positive comment by Rytis the legend, regarding one of your tanks.
if you dont have any of the above you cannot comment on one of God's own creations. Any remarks henceforth would be considered blasphemy and punishment could include dousing with a bucket of water at an extremely toxic ph of 7.3. :lol: :lol:


hahaha marg thats champion!

i think their last name should be The Black-Rytilliant's hehe

i believe you OMA! hehe
GP scientific evidence proves that The Black-Rytilliant can only live in a PH of 0.5, i think that a novice like you should steer clear of such a valuable and rare species. :lol: :lol:

[marg]

Careful G.P., they'll Re-talliate Brilliantly with a few Black looks hehe hehe.,

Marg.

[Robdog]

This thread is gold!!
I feel embarrassed that I tried to keep the peace and reason with this idiot back on page 3. Open the floodgates now I reckon!

I liked the post on the other thread that read- "My fish jumped out of the tank"
Says it all rytis... I mean right there! :D

[Lichan]

Sounds good to me. I wasnt sure how it was here I just read the sticky about Au content. I would like to have a nice freindly person I could talk to about visiting some day! This can work out good. I know alot about the hobby but I am new to Discus keeping

The above quote was posted mid April this year when Brilliant so politely introduced himself....

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6722

Its now early July and all of a sudden the guy is a GURU - all knowing Discus keeper extraordinaire. :roll:

[goldenpigeon]

Pete your my hero and you know it mate!

we have all the evidence we need right here!

so what? Brilliant you would have been keeping discus for say 5 months at the most? most of us here posting in this thread have all been keeping discus for over a year..... hmmm!

Samir my mistake mate my mistake! im gonna go back to the Biology textbook and do some solid reading for a few days, then im going to find the website of our best breeder here in australia and and believe all his information about this very rare species i hope to keep one day. Samir when i finally get some of these would you mind giving me some pointers on how to keep them? do you hitnk i should get an RO system? mqybe Brilliant could help me out? he seems to know everything after only a few months of discus...


rob this thread is gold isnt it! it will be interesting to see if Brilliant pops back into this thread!

[Lichan]

rob this thread is gold isnt it! it will be interesting to see if Brilliant pops back into this thread!
Oh GP - He will be back - mark my words... people like that just cant stay away. I am pretty sure we have seen this exact scenario happen quite recently... haven't we ?? Someone mention Rytis ??

BTW - where are Rytis and Brilliant from ?? not that it at all matters... just wondering !!

[samir]

USA and Canada

[Brilliant]

Sounds good to me. I wasnt sure how it was here I just read the sticky about Au content. I would like to have a nice freindly person I could talk to about visiting some day! This can work out good. I know alot about the hobby but I am new to Discus keeping

The above quote was posted mid April this year when Brilliant so politely introduced himself....

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6722

Its now early July and all of a sudden the guy is a GURU - all knowing Discus keeper extraordinaire. :roll:

New to keeping Discus ...owning them. Ive researched before Ive had them. WHY? Because its the responsible this to do. Your a bunch of ignorant...

I realize I touched on something special with samir cutting ands pasting this forum into something nice but please lets all not gang up of the guy who states Discus should be kept in soft acidic water.

[Brilliant]

rob this thread is gold isnt it! it will be interesting to see if Brilliant pops back into this thread!
Oh GP - He will be back - mark my words... people like that just cant stay away. I am pretty sure we have seen this exact scenario happen quite recently... haven't we ?? Someone mention Rytis ??

BTW - where are Rytis and Brilliant from ?? not that it at all matters... just wondering !!

Did Rytis practice and promote good Discus keeping habits?
I thought his tank was awesome. Sure the trim was busted up and looked like crap but the inside of the tank which is what I saw before was a terrace. I can see that kind words later get turned into ammo here.

LOL Nice try...

[Brilliant]

Sounds good to me. I wasnt sure how it was here I just read the sticky about Au content. I would like to have a nice freindly person I could talk to about visiting some day! This can work out good. I know alot about the hobby but I am new to Discus keeping

The above quote was posted mid April this year when Brilliant so politely introduced himself....

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6722

Its now early July and all of a sudden the guy is a GURU - all knowing Discus keeper extraordinaire. :roll:

Not really I am just pissed that this forum seems to ignore to what is known about Discus. Like I said before this forum is more about standing up for your mate then your Discus.

[goldenpigeon]

brilliant if you saw some of rytis's posts you would be horrified... and most people here havnt seen some of the discraseful posts he has made because we mods have removed them.

he seemed to htink that politics, george bush, woman and cup size related towards fish keeping... somehow i dont think so!

yes he had a fairly nice tank, didnt really take my fancy, but it was quite nice looking to others. his attitude is just like yours- doesnt take advice from the people that know best and keeps flogging his oppinion on people until they get so sick of him they start abusing him.

he seemed to htink that he was an "advanced" discus keeper as you seem to yet he would feed his very skinny and deformed discus from a live food culture that was infested with hydras....

so no i dont htink he practiced good discus keeping habits, he tried to promote what the "thought" were good discus keeping habits but was way off the mark!

[Brilliant]

Oh, O.K.

The Brilliant - Black Rytis's :shock: .

Brilliants gonna say "Brilliant" when he comes on line :lol: :lol: :lol: ,

Marg.
Marg you're splitting my sides. Stop please :lol: :lol: :lol:




Sorry guy's I have no links to back this up.............you just have to take it on face value.
Cheers,
Mark
Ok so you dont have links,
but do you have ??
a) Scientific evidence.
b) A signed yearbook.
c) a claimed interview with Jack Wattley
d) A positive comment by Rytis the legend, regarding one of your tanks.
if you dont have any of the above you cannot comment on one of God's own creations. Any remarks henceforth would be considered blasphemy and punishment could include dousing with a bucket of water at an extremely toxic ph of 7.3. :lol: :lol:


hahaha marg thats champion!

i think their last name should be The Black-Rytilliant's hehe

i believe you OMA! hehe
GP scientific evidence proves that The Black-Rytilliant can only live in a PH of 0.5, i think that a novice like you should steer clear of such a valuable and rare species. :lol: :lol:

Wow youve managed to type alot. Ive scoured the internet without finding this anywhere else. I wasnt sure if you were capable to type more then a one liner without cut and paste. I am proud of you samir. ;) Go try to get some more attention with other people work K Thx

Your a joke samir.

I am the one destroying Discus breed? This is funny how this iis a biut twisted here. HAHAHA this is too comical the latest twist that I am some how ruining the breed. You guyys dont have much left huh? I guess if samir cant finmd anything online elsewhere ur out of luck. Best of luck to you finding someone intelligent to debate with me.

Oh BTW...do you want a better pic of my yearbook? Or you just being a fool? It was Discus for the Perfectionist by Jack Wattley signed by Jack Wattley. I met him at a aquarum society meeting where he spoke about rearing eggs and keeping Discus. I was going to share my notes with this forum. I am sure many have seen it many have read his book but what the heck sharing is caring. But we are past that point now. ALl the BS your puling out of your hat is sensless and personal. Your posts are worthless unless you cut and paste but dont take it out on me. OK Thx.

[Brilliant]

brilliant if you saw some of rytis's posts you would be horrified... and most people here havnt seen some of the discraseful posts he has made because we mods have removed them.

he seemed to htink that politics, george bush, woman and cup size related towards fish keeping... somehow i dont think so!

yes he had a fairly nice tank, didnt really take my fancy, but it was quite nice looking to others. his attitude is just like yours- doesnt take advice from the people that know best and keeps flogging his oppinion on people until they get so sick of him they start abusing him.

he seemed to htink that he was an "advanced" discus keeper as you seem to yet he would feed his very skinny and deformed discus from a live food culture that was infested with hydras....

so no i dont htink he practiced good discus keeping habits, he tried to promote what the "thought" were good discus keeping habits but was way off the mark!

Listen.
I take advice, do you think I came up with this myself?
I respect LadyRed and still do. I challenged the thought that pH over neutral was only suggested because of fear of pH crash and it should be kept under 7.0 pH. This now turned into me dissrespecting her and more on this forum. Now this little snowball has turned into an avalanche. All because of that one little person, who usualy doesnt know anything, starts the first flame. Then all other jump on that bandwagon. Typical forum crap. Ive never experienced such blatent ignorance but this is new for me, I wont be so suprised next time. There wont be a next time. Like that other guy said I am a waste here and wont bother spending my time writing to this much longer but to devote my time to something better, something worth my time.

I dont know what the hell this has to do with Rytis but further supports my nontion that this forum is reaching for the stars to just say anything against be. Its working wornders for those who arent blinded by loyalty to their "mate".

[samir]

that got you worked up didn't it ??? :lol: :lol: :lol: i think you've been drinking too much RO waste. :whip :whip :whip i never said you were destroying the discus breed, dont get me wrong, i apologise profusely, all i meant was you don't know jack sh1t about it. :lol: :lol: :lol: do you by any chance also have a rare black discus ? (just checking). theres nobody who knows everything about discus, not Wattley, not me and most definitely not you. articles on the internet serve as a rough guide they are not the last word on discus, what works for jack wattley does not necessarily have to work for me. for instance wattley believes discus produce a hormone that inhibits the growth of the competition, i dont believe that unless you can show me signed scientific evidence along with a weblink showing me a malawi cichlid disguised as discus. :lol: :lol: :lol: i've read wattley and i've read lots of articles by the asian breeders, honestly the asian breeders are more my type and if they say 6.5 is ok for breeding and 7.2 is fine for fry i'll take that coz it works for me. its ignorant snobs like you who scare people off discus. you half-read one book and think your'e the be all and end all of discus keeping.instead of RO maybe you should invest in feeding yourself a higher protein diet, might grow the other half of your cerebrum. till then dont rack your brains too much with RO & ph's because you'll only crush the pea.

[Brilliant]

For the record. I do thin Rytis tank is awesome looking. I love the structures inside. I am being close minded eh? I am being slaughtered here because I liked Rytis tank which is an OPINION....much different then the FACT that Discus are soft acidic water fish.

Ive learned this tricky one from samire. Thx buddy ;)
Please continue to discredit yourselves. I think this forum is more about sticking up for your "mate" then your Discus...

[Brilliant]

that got you worked up didn't it ??? :lol: :lol: :lol: i think you've been drinking too much RO waste. :whip :whip :whip i never said you were destroying the discus breed, dont get me wrong, i apologise profusely, all i meant was you don't know jack ****- about it. :lol: :lol: :lol: do you by any chance also have a rare black discus ? (just checking)

Id figure id catch this one before it gets edited.
Me worked up? Nope! You just walked this right into the ground with the statement above. Thx again.

Please continue to discredit yourselves. I think this forum is more about sticking up for your "mate" then your Discus...

PS I did just get warmed up tho. If someone...anyone...has something of worth to reply to please let er rip. Personal comments and the "my Discus live" story have already been presented.

Remember that comment about cigarette smokers? Has anyone even processed that thought? I thought I had you guys for a sec then some moron comes in with some radical comment and it goes downhill again.

[musichocmilkshake]

Brilliant wrote " signed by Jack Wattley. I met him at a aquarum society meeting where he spoke about rearing eggs and keeping Discus. I was going to share my notes with this forum. I am sure many have seen it many have read his book but what the heck sharing is caring".

Wish i could figure out how to quote

No, I'm still interested in any constructive advice you may have - and i'm sure so are the rest of the contributors to this forum - so please - by all means share.

I still admire your perseverence and frankly am disappointed when i sign in and see no new posts to this thread.

i think there's a little Rytis in all of us!

[goldenpigeon]

lol what with the stick up for your mate thing? as far as i know everyone here is giving hteir honest oppinion on the subject and what they believe works when keeping discus.

Brilliant your saying discus should be kept in soft acidic water, no one else here is saying your wrong what we ARE saying is that discus can be kept very comfortably in water which is still soft but the ph could be up to say 7.5. i wouldnt keep nor advise anyone to keep their ph above 7.5. the aim of the game to start off is getting a stable ph, if you cant do that then your going to have a lot fo problems. after that then you can work on fine tuning it.

how about we leave it up to the fish. if they dont like their water above 7.0 then im sure they will tell me. if they breed in it then they must be ok right!

not everyone can have perfect water, i think you need to accept that. as long as you keep htings fairly close to what they would naturally be happy with then thats fine in my oppinion.

[Brilliant]

Pete your my hero and you know it mate!

we have all the evidence we need right here!

so what? Brilliant you would have been keeping discus for say 5 months at the most? most of us here posting in this thread have all been keeping discus for over a year..... hmmm!

Samir my mistake mate my mistake! im gonna go back to the Biology textbook and do some solid reading for a few days, then im going to find the website of our best breeder here in australia and and believe all his information about this very rare species i hope to keep one day. Samir when i finally get some of these would you mind giving me some pointers on how to keep them? do you hitnk i should get an RO system? mqybe Brilliant could help me out? he seems to know everything after only a few months of discus...


rob this thread is gold isnt it! it will be interesting to see if Brilliant pops back into this thread!

Also wanted to catch this one.

Which alienates researching about the fish extensively BEFORE you buy it. As if this will inconvenience you.

Sorry buddy....where I come from. This fish is special.

[Brilliant]

l
how about we leave it up to the fish. if they dont like their water above 7.0 then im sure they will tell me. if they breed in it then they must be ok right!

not everyone can have perfect water, i think you need to accept that. as long as you keep htings fairly close to what they would naturally be happy with then thats fine in my oppinion.

I did I accidentally put too much crushed coral into my filter and pH went 7+...I know godforbid right...well my Discus did not spawn. Yes I know this is biased and worthless in this thread beacuse of the blindness.

YES everyone can have perfect water. That is what RO is for and thats why I suggest it. With DI it fixes anything (well almost anything). I didnt say everyone needs RO, some folks have nice fresh tap water. If you test it and its good fine. AT LEAST TEST IT. The general idea everyone else is supporting here is I take what I get and acclimate my fish to it. Which is WRONG. You shouldnt be keeping the Discus in hard alkaline water.

[goldenpigeon]

did i say i didnt research before getting the fish? i just so happen to be very good friends with one of our sponsors here at DF.com who taught me a lot of what i know. did i say this fish wasnt special.

on top of that i did months of internet searching etc. however i believe that first hand experience and several years of it in my case speaks a lot louder than a text book. a lot of the stuff you read on the internet (random sites google searched) are just written by average joe. lots of this information can not be trusted.

however information from a university level studdy of discus i could trust. there is a difference you see. ;) while you researched i bet most of the information you came across was written by random indivuals as opposed to an actual extensive study of the fish.

that post was more a shot at you hehe :twisted:

[samir]

Remember that comment about cigarette smokers? Has anyone even processed that thought? I thought I had you guys for a sec then some moron comes in with some radical comment and it goes downhill again.
if somebody threw your butt out it would still be littering.

[Brilliant]

One guy keeping Discus in alkaline water seemed to spread like a plague. Much like cigarette smoking.

It is soo funny the similarities between these two "problems". You will find plenty of "scientific crap" to support the "right" side. But you will also get plenty of other "evidence" that the "scientific crap" is wrong.

[Brilliant]

on top of that i did months of internet searching etc. however i believe that first hand experience and several years of it in my case speaks a lot louder than a text book. a lot of the stuff you read on the internet (random sites google searched) are just written by average joe. lots of this information can not be trusted.



The book I took a pic of and own was already quoted to contain evidence against my arguement here.

As you can see by this example I am not "going by the book" here.

[samir]

how do we know it wasn't just your high school yearbook ??? and only one guy signed it.. yourself :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[goldenpigeon]

I did I accidentally put too much crushed coral into my filter and pH went 7+...I know godforbid right...well my Discus did not spawn. Yes I know this is biased and worthless in this thread beacuse of the blindness.

ok lets look at this Mr. Smartypants -

how long was your tank at this ph? how old were your fish at this time? what ph did it actually get upto in the end? biased no, pathetic i call it for even bringing that up!

everyone can have perfect water can they? do you know how much RO costs in Asutralia? more than "one years worth of water conditioners". do you simply not waterchange for 1 year while you save up for your RO? this is why we have those lovely little chemicals made for aquaria ;)

[OscarManAlpha]

if somebody threw your butt out it would still be littering.

Hey Samir got a link to where you cut and paste that one from mate ?

I just choked on some cashews I laughed so much...........

[samir]

For the record. I do thin Rytis tank is awesome looking. I love the structures inside. I am being close minded eh? I am being slaughtered here because I liked Rytis tank which is an OPINION
nobody disliked Rytis, he was an idiot at times, but not to worry he's not in your league.


I just choked on some cashews
quick Mark grab a glass of RO water at 4.2 PH and gulp it down. If you don't have RO you're an embarrasment to all cashew eating chokers everywhere. absolute disgrace to the breed.

[musichocmilkshake]

Now look what you have done - you's have scared him off!
Just when i was enjoying my Saturday night! (sad eh?)

[goldenpigeon]

samir stop it mate! my family think im weird cause i have these spurts of laughter! Brilliants probably just about to post.

[samir]

that cigarette butt sh1t sounds so much like something Rytis would say. maybe there both from the same spawn, culls I'd say.

[OscarManAlpha]

Guy's I just got a PM that the PH police are going to be doing raids this week-end.

It's all good my advice if you don't have a RO unit or a dummy one on hand, is throw some peat in an ageing barrel.

A signed book may also come in handy !!

HTH

Cheers,

Mark

[goldenpigeon]

oh no! can anyone lend me an RO unit? or then again i could just use peat and whats that i hear? OMG! it costs a lot less than an RO unit... i knew there was a cheaper alternative and now i wont get caught by the PH police!

[samir]

Guy's I just got a PM that the PH police are going to be doing raids this week-end.

It's all good my advice if you don't have a RO unit or a dummy one on hand, is throw some peat in an ageing barrel.

A signed book may also come in handy !!

HTH

Cheers,

Markwhat about weblinks ? and scientific evidence ? i have those.. would that help ? i have a picture of Rytis' parrot discus, does that give me brownie points ? should i drop Jack Wattley's name.

[OscarManAlpha]

now i wont get caught by the PH police!

Hmm I forgot to mention you need to get your discus to put on a parrot face for them if they do arrive...

[samir]

oh no! can anyone lend me an RO unit? or then again i could just use peat and whats that i hear? OMG! it costs a lot less than an RO unit... i knew there was a cheaper alternative and now i wont get caught by the PH police!
how dare you suggest peat you vile creature, desecrating the sanctity of God's(Brilliant's) very own fish. :evil:

[OscarManAlpha]

Dr. Eduard Schmidt-Focke and Dieter Untergasser signed may also be needed....

Wattley they hear all the time during raids they are getting tougher.

The more suggestions the better....

Best hide your spawn Samir they are harder when fry are involved....

[OscarManAlpha]

Can anyone lend me some notes or links to sexing wild discus ?

[Merrilyn]

I was thinking I should lock this thread because it's gone far enough ................................. then I started reading the posts. Heck, it's way too funny to lock. You guys (and girls) have given me some much needed comic relief, so I'm going to leave it active.

Brilliant, I do believe the ball is in your court. Time for one of your ever so witty retorts. :P

P.S. I still think Rytis and Brilliant are one and the same person or at the very least, twins :fluff

[samir]

Spare me please I tried. I kept the PH constantly hovering at 7.5 and they still refuse to die. they are the wretched spawn of the devil hence the ability to survive at 7.5. :evil: :evil: :evil:

[marg]

Well well well!.

I was a bit sad when we lost Rytis - I laughed so hard each morning that I forgot my pains for a while - actually for the past few weeks I have been veery achy of a morning - but now I think I'm cured!!!

Brilliant you are truly Brilliant :thumb :thumb :thumb .

I have just laughed so hard the tears ran down my face and put my cigarette out (oh well, saves me throwing it on the ground).

I've laughed so much I'm sure it has put my Fish off spawning - they are all at the front of their tanks looking at me weirdly.

Gotta go and wash my face in some R.O.'d PH 4.5 water and settle down :wink: :wink: .


Marg.

[Brilliant]

ok lets look at this Mr. Smartypants -

do you know how much RO costs in Asutralia? more than "one years worth of water conditioners". do you simply not waterchange for 1 year while you save up for your RO? this is why we have those lovely little chemicals made for aquaria ;)

OK now I get it. This is the reason. Me close minded? You cant afford what I suggest so it turns into this? LMAO...

Oh no! I lost my cut and paste....If you guys dont get it by now....uhh.

I like the peat twist. Its great. Please post a reply where I renounce the use of peat. K Thx.



LadyRed I was hoping you had more then that.

[marg]

Brilliant,

Anyone who stumbles onto this thread (Ladyred included) would have to be a bit weird if they weren't rolling around the floor laughing - truly mate, you ask for everything that is thrown back at you.

I can't see any problems with cut and paste - pretty much every subject on the forum has little bits in it that way - why does it so offend you?

Marg.

[Brilliant]

I was thinking I should lock this thread because it's gone far enough ................................. then I started reading the posts. Heck, it's way too funny to lock. You guys (and girls) have given me some much needed comic relief, so I'm going to leave it active.

Brilliant, I do believe the ball is in your court. Time for one of your ever so witty retorts. :P

P.S. I still think Rytis and Brilliant are one and the same person or at the very least, twins :fluff

Yup where else can you find a post chock full of excuses why not to keep Discus in correct water parameters. Deleting this post would only solidify what Ive posted here. Locking it would only stop the personal comments and further embarrassment from the crew with nothing left but BS, excuses and personal comments. :roll:

[samir]

hey where's Samir wrote ???? wasn't i offensive enough :?

[OscarManAlpha]

Yup where else can you find a post chock full of excuses why not to keep Discus in correct water parameters. Deleting this post would only solidify what Ive posted here. Locking it would only stop the personal comments and further embarrassment from the crew with nothing left but BS, excuses and personal comments. :roll:

Are you a travel agent for guilt trips ?

[Brilliant]

Brilliant,

Anyone who stumbles onto this thread (Ladyred included) would have to be a bit weird if they weren't rolling around the floor laughing - truly mate, you ask for everything that is thrown back at you.

I can't see any problems with cut and paste - pretty much every subject on the forum has little bits in it that way - why does it so offend you?

Marg.

A post has already been made about samir giving credit where credit is due. Do I really have to explain these sort of things?

Laughing yep. This is funny. (inserting bit of sarcasm here, letting you know now so I dont have to explain it further ;) )I like to keep all of my pets how its most convenient, I mean suggesting otherwise may keep them from having it....god forbid that.

[samir]

Brilliant, I do believe the ball is in your court. Time for one of your ever so witty retorts. :P

witty ???? :shock: :shock: :shock: you're being nice again arent you ? :)

[samir]

Yup where else can you find a post chock full of excuses why not to keep Discus in correct water parameters. Deleting this post would only solidify what Ive posted here. Locking it would only stop the personal comments and further embarrassment from the crew with nothing left but BS, excuses and personal comments. :roll:
you still dont get it do you ??? everyone, laugh, expense, your,
how old are you Brilliant ????

[marg]

Brilliant all jokes aside - how long have you kept Discus and how many successful spawns have you raised? I'm not being smart - I truly am interested.

The reason that I ask this is because the majority of the people that you are going head to head with have been successfully breeding Discus for quite some time and therefore I think you have to give Credit where Credit is due - they obviously know what they are doing with regards to their water parameters because their Discus would not be breeding otherwise.

It is a well known fact that poor water conditions cause stress on Discus and cause illnesses and the end result is no Discus.

R.O. unit are fine for those who can afford them but I can assure you I have no intentions of giving my Discus up and unless someone takes pity on me and my Fish there is no way I will ever be able to afford one.

If you would just listen to what the Forum Members offer as advice instead of insisting that it is your way or no way, then perhaps you would also learn something.

Marg.
Marg.

[dcarmau]

Brilliant, I do believe the ball is in your court. Time for one of your ever so witty retorts. :P

witty ???? :shock: :shock: :shock: you're being nice again arent you ? :)

I do believe so, Samir.

After all, Wit implies intellect. Intellect would surely have figured out that we've -never- claimed the Amazon wasn't acidic and soft. We haven't claimed that RO wasn't the best option if you could afford it.

I believe all we've ever really done is ask for the evidence he so consistently says he has. Beyond the one-line stuff he usually posts links to.

Brilliant, your knowledge is like the sun, and I am Icarus.
To Listen too much is to plummet to my (fishes) death.

I'd suggest this was Rytis' Mind control, apart from 2 points.
a) Mind control suggests there was a mind to control.
b) Mind control suggests there's a mind doing the controlling. (and after all, it was Rytis' fish that had the brains out of that lot, it's not their fault he bought them)

Brilliant, I have to say, not since Rytis' last poll have I laughed so much. Thanks for that. For the love of whoever you pray to, please post your evidential links that we must use RO water if our tap water isn't perfect? If you have all this evidence you're referring to in the writing of your posts, I'm sure you've probably done the equivalent of a copy and paste without credit by now yourself. are we up to pot and kettle now?

To proclaim everyone in the forum is dead wrong that the fish are actually quite happy in parameters when they obviously are, is beyond foolish.

I have a proverb for you, which I assume you won't listen to, since you haven't listened to anyone all thread but "It is better to remain silent and be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

I await your illuminatory response, shine thy Brilliant light in my direction that I might gaze upon the wonder of Discus in their proper glory!

[Sunday 1:25AM AEST: edits were to fix typos; Capitalisation of "Amazon" was wrong, and "illuminatory" originally read "illumnatory" - typo reason: My light was as bright as Brilliant]

[marg]

dcarmau,

I think you just hit the nail on the head - BRILLIANTLY :lol: :lol: :lol: ,

Marg.

[dcarmau]

Marg, I try so very hard.

at 21, my experiences aren't remarkably vast, but they're sufficient for me to write (I think) well-thought-out responses that (usually) address the points of previous posts.

[Merrilyn]

Cut it out you guys, my sides are splitting.

Brilliant, I know all your posts are 'tongue in cheek' but honestly, they are the funniest posts I have ever read.

Keep up the good work everyone.

Haven't laughed so much in ages.

[Brilliant]

Cut it out you guys, my sides are splitting.

Brilliant, I know all your posts are 'tongue in cheek' but honestly, they are the funniest posts I have ever read.

Keep up the good work everyone.

Haven't laughed so much in ages.

;)
I think that everyone thinks I have Discus keeping pigeon-holed. I am not oppsed to other ways of keeping the correct parameters. If you cant afford RO then fine. Do what you gotta do....my point is..DO IT. The misunderstanding comes when I see bad things being suggested, things that are affecting one parameter in a negative way to achive another. I do not condone these bad things and that must mean I am suggesting RO only.

[Brilliant]

Brilliant all jokes aside - how long have you kept Discus and how many successful spawns have you raised? I'm not being smart - I truly am interested.

The reason that I ask this is because the majority of the people that you are going head to head with have been successfully breeding Discus for quite some time and therefore I think you have to give Credit where Credit is due - they obviously know what they are doing with regards to their water parameters because their Discus would not be breeding otherwise.

It is a well known fact that poor water conditions cause stress on Discus and cause illnesses and the end result is no Discus.

R.O. unit are fine for those who can afford them but I can assure you I have no intentions of giving my Discus up and unless someone takes pity on me and my Fish there is no way I will ever be able to afford one.

If you would just listen to what the Forum Members offer as advice instead of insisting that it is your way or no way, then perhaps you would also learn something.

Marg.
Marg.

A majority of the folks posting here are sticking up for their mate. I think this advice to keep a Discus in pH 7+ is dumb and only be lenient with those that do it. I dont mean to be the Discus Nazi but I really think someone should say the things I am saying. I dislike those who suggest off parameters, like their own personal water parameters I think they should keep that to themselves if it conflicts with the fish's native water.


PS yes I am keeping Discus for how long? My Discus spawned yesterday. Do you want pics? They are barely of age to spawn. The pair is growing just fine still...

[Crocky]

Quick all we must pack our bags and jump on the next plane home (where ever that maybe).For the last 200 odd years most of us have been living in a climate which is killing us.Oh no another thought what about all the other living things we have brought into the country,animals and plants there all suffering.Hell no ,I'm a cross breed human where do I go and my children there another cross.Please help I'm not a wild caught human what part of the river ( other country) do I belong.
I ate chinese yesterday,I thought I liked it,but I'm really suffering as I have no chinese in me.People we must find our text books (family trees) it's the only way as we will never adapted,is there such a word (Adapted)

[mcloughlin2]

Quick all we must pack our bags and jump on the next plane home (where ever that maybe).For the last 200 odd years most of us have been living in a climate which is killing us.Oh no another thought what about all the other living things we have brought into the country,animals and plants there all suffering.**** no ,I'm a cross breed human where do I go and my children there another cross.Please help I'm not a wild caught human what part of the river ( other country) do I belong.
I ate chinese yesterday,I thought I liked it,but I'm really suffering as I have no chinese in me.People we must find our text books (family trees) it's the only way as we will never adapted,is there such a word (Adapted)

Crocky mate, :lol: :lol: :lol:

[goldenpigeon]

Crocky wrote:

Quick all we must pack our bags and jump on the next plane home (where ever that maybe).For the last 200 odd years most of us have been living in a climate which is killing us.Oh no another thought what about all the other living things we have brought into the country,animals and plants there all suffering.**** no ,I'm a cross breed human where do I go and my children there another cross.Please help I'm not a wild caught human what part of the river ( other country) do I belong.
I ate chinese yesterday,I thought I liked it,but I'm really suffering as I have no chinese in me.People we must find our text books (family trees) it's the only way as we will never adapted,is there such a word (Adapted)

hahaha! your a champ mate! thats exactly it! ADAPTATION! anything and everything has to adapt for survival, humans and fish included.

goldenpigeon wrote:

ok lets look at this Mr. Smartypants -

how long was your tank at this ph? how old were your fish at this time? what ph did it actually get upto in the end? biased no, pathetic i call it for even bringing that up!

you havnt answered what is asked mate! whats wrong? cant face facts or something? dint dissapoint me mate, after all you have "all this evidence" which you still havnt coughed up!

[Robdog]

I have a Siberian Husky and an Alaskan Malamute at home and I keep them in a refrigerated biodome in my backyard to recreate their natural environment.
I plan to breed them and create striated Sibaskan Huskamutes but only if I can accurately control temp and conditions will this be possible

[Robdog]

I am predicting problems with shrinkage

[marg]

Brilliant :

You STILL are sidestepping my Questions - How long have you been keeping Discus and how many Spawns have you successfully raised? Another question of mine would be how many Discus do you have? No-one that I know is an expert when it comes to these beautiful Fish. Even Ladyred whom I regard as the closest person one could refer to as an expert will say to you "30 years in Discus and I am still learning".

Another close person to an expert that I know would have to be Crocky. Crocky would have to be one of the most successful breeders on this Forum and he has just told you that the secret to success is called adaptation. None of us have Amazonian water at our disposal so we have to adapt our water and living conditions as best we can if we wish to keep Discus. Bear in mind that our Discus are not wild caught and have been bred from Discus that have gradually over many years adapted to the living conditions that we have provided so much so to the point where they are now breeding successfully and surviving happily (just ask Crockys' babies - and they do mature to adulthood and then go on and breed themselves).

As they say - "the proofs in the pudding" mate. Any Discus that is unhappy in its' surroundings physically shows it (skinny, stunting, poor appetite, hiding in corners - the list goes on!!.

Even Eskimos can exist quite happily in the heat of Australia - it is just a matter of adapting to the Food and Climate.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the reason that you are copping such a hard time is because you keep insisting "Its' my way or the Highway" - well when your name is something like Diamond Wattley, Diamond Degen, Diamond Khoo or Diamond " some other "Expert" name" I will listen to you, but until then I think I will keep my Discus my way - they all seem pretty fat and healthy to me and I don't have a Discus Cemetery in my back garden :ug .

Your way isn't necessarily the right way :banghead :banghead :banghead .

Marg.

[marg]

Robdog you are a scream !!!!!

That says it all doesn't it - ADAPT, ADAPT, ADAPT :!: :!: :!: .

I've got a geriatric Poodle whom I keep clipped off - in the cold weather he wears warm woolly jackets that I have lovingly made for him - he has adapted quite well :wink: . He is 13 years old and goes to the vet once a year for his shots - I have had him since he was a tiny baby and know for certain that he has never had a days illness in his life brought on by the way that I have treated him apart from a bit of Arthritis that is now slowly creeping up upon him due to his age. Heck he even eats dried Food and sleeps inside on a Sheepskin - now is that natural? I wonder did his fore-bearers live this way - or has he ADAPTED :lol: :lol: :lol: .

Marg.

[Crocky]

News flash,Its July 16 2006 in Australia and where I need to go Its still the July 15 2006 and dark.Anyone got a spare time machine (Doctor Who are you out there?)

[samir]

maybe if we all decide to agree with brilliant for now, and then gently increase the PH by a few decimal points a week he may adapt.

[marg]

I'm about to do a water change on all of my tanks - at the same time I will carefully increase my PH by a fraction - there - happy now Diamond??

If you are not, why don't you take an extended vacation with Rytis like you have been threatening to do off and on for the past 11 pages :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock: :shock: :shock: , and leave all of us fools to our own ignorant ways??


Marg.

[Robdog]

:roll: Marg,
The "my fish lived" story doesn't cut it with me :roll:
And stop sticking up for your "mates" K Tks...

[Crocky]

Hi Marg

I'm no expert that's for shore,but a living thing will not reproduce if it's dosen't like the enviroments its in.So if the your fish will breed and the fry grow into adults with out being deformed,then your waters perfect.

[marg]

Gulp, sorry Robdog, I swear it won't happen again, it's just that I am such an expert :oops: , I originally lived in the Amazon River you know :wink: .,

marg.

[marg]

My point exactly Crocky.

Marg.

[Robdog]

That's been my point since page 3!!!!!!!!

[marg]

Well can someone tell me when Diamond is going to get the point :roll: .,

Marg.

[Robdog]

I actually own that point so could you please provide a link back to page 3 and I'll sign it for you and then it shall be the authority on the subject.

[Robdog]

I love this thread so much I had to go and change my signature!

[Lichan]

Well can someone tell me when Diamond is going to get the point :roll: .,

Marg.


Marg - Its Brilliant, simply Brilliant.

[Lichan]

Well can someone tell me when Diamond is going to get the point :roll: .,

Marg.


Marg - Its Brilliant, simply Brilliant.

Then again Marg... u may be correct... maybe Brilliant is a Diamond in the rough... the EXTREME rough.

[marg]

Ha Ha Robdog - I've thought up a new Signature (it was time for a change anyway) - check it out :lol: :lol: :lol: .,

Marg.

[samir]

i'll do the same Rob, i hope its not blasphemy....lord diamond forgive me for i have sinned :lol: :lol:

[marg]

I think we need a new Section on the Forum for things like this - maybe call it "Funny Fins" or something like that for all the jokes, cause this is turning into a joke considering the original subject.

Every time I see someone has posted something new I race to see what has been written, then laugh my insides out (maybe I have an internal parasite due to my living conditions or something I have eaten - Diamond - hey Diamond - your expert advice please - liven it up!!!???).

Marg.

[Lichan]

Diamond - hey Diamond - your expert advice please - liven it up!!!???).

Marg.


Marg - ITS BRILLIANT ur talking to. NOT DIAMOND.

[marg]

I stand corrected Lichan - it's just that this thread is so funny that it gets me all mixed up, and causes me to have "Blonde Moments" :oops: :oops: .

I'm sure Brilliant will come on line soon and put me in my place with some of his thoughts :P .

Marg.

[goldenpigeon]

guys i just want to say that i think im a pretty cool guy because i have a signed copy of Discus, The Naked Truth by Andrew Soh :D *quote - SIGNED!*

in this fantastic book Mr. Soh tells us that he breeds his discus in water that has a ph of 6.0 to 8.0! he even describes using ph drops to influence spawning (raise the ph to 7.6 etc then drop it to just below 6 etc.).

does anyone want me to take a picture of the book? pics of the signature? front cover? the actual page this information is displayed on? how about i get a pic of me holding the book? would that be sufficient evidence Brilliant?

[marg]

You certainly are one COOL Guy, G.P. Fancy that - a signed copy!!!

I personally haven't read the book (lack of funds unfortunately and I can't con my local Library into buying it) but am keeping tabs on EBay hoping to find a second hand copy.

For goodness sakes take a photo of the Page that the information regarding PH is on (I'm sure Andrew wouldn't mind) and perhaps BRILLIANT will take a bit of Notice!!.

You could take one of yourself holding the Book seeing as you're pretty famous yourself :D .


Brilliant I say, just Brilliant (and said nicely) :!: .

Marg.

[goldenpigeon]

lol thanks marg! i would have to check with Mr. Soh first i think (could be some legal issues there)

ill try take some pics later on whe i get my camera back.

*BTW if would like to read the book ill send you my copy for a while, great read, im still going through it for the millionth time hehe!*

[nicholas76]

funny you should say that Gp,

I keep re reading it and I tend to pick up somthing new each time.

[samir]

funny you should say that Gp,

I keep re reading it and I tend to pick up somthing new each time.

Big deal, so "Your'e fish lived" you cannot get by with just that on God's own topic. We need pictures of the signature on the book and scientific evidence that proves that you have actually been re-reading it. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: also attached should be pictures of your RO unit and a photograph showing evidence that your PH is no greater than 4.2. If you tend to pick up new things every time you re-read a book you are obviously a lesser mortal and must immediately bow down and yeild to "The Brilliant One".The very fact that you actually have to re-read anything is proof enough of your inferiority. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry Nick but that just doesn't cut it. :lol: :lol: :lol:



does anyone want me to take a picture of the book? pics of the signature? front cover? the actual page this information is displayed on? how about i get a pic of me holding the book? would that be sufficient evidence Brilliant?
GP I want a picture of you in scuba gear reading the book inside your tank, to be one with the fish you must be the fish. Oh if you have any fish that are signed by Andrew Soh that would be a plus. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[G-1000]

BTW - Junior

I have a signed copy of the same book!

I dont think he signed it when there was pH 4.2 water around though.

G

[marg]

G,

That's because Brilliant hadn't given him the proper advice at that time!!

Brilliant knew, hw was just keeping it a secret to see if we could figure it out ourselves.

Brilliant feller!!

Marg.

[dcarmau]

hey Marg,


"True Friends are like Diamonds, so Brilliant, Precious and Rare - Protect them while you can"

Don't forget, they're always Rytis!:lol:

The Funny Fins, the Catfish Comic, the Amazonian Amusers! we totally should have a Laughs Lounge.

[goldenpigeon]

GP I want a picture of you in scuba gear reading the book inside your tank, to be one with the fish you must be the fish. Oh if you have any fish that are signed by Andrew Soh that would be a plus. :lol: :lol: :lol:

hmm ill try get a signed fish for you brilliant!


BTW - Junior

I have a signed copy of the same book!

I dont think he signed it when there was pH 4.2 water around though.

G

G i think a lot of people here have a signed copy? lol i nothing special anymore, im inferior now because many people have a signed copy and only Brilliant has a signed Wattley book.

[marg]

Howzabouts "The Flippin' Funnies"?.

dcarmau I haven't forgotten dear old Rytis - he probably knows everything what's going on anyway - rumour has it he is Brilliants' Twin Brother (and I heard another funny rumour - that his Elder Brother is Carl Barron :wink: ).


Marg.

[Robdog]

It would be interesting to get a nerd to check their IP addresses because they do seem very similar.
As soon as Rytis got barred, the Brilliant One seemed to get extremely more vocal. And there can't be anyone else around that found Rytis's tank attractive with those crap columns and levels. :roll:

[samir]

one of the admin's should know the ip, maybe the site logs it

[Robdog]

My comic genius is wasted here! I'm gonna go take an RO bath :wink:

[marg]

Oh Robdog, that is a bit below the belt!!

Marg.

[musichocmilkshake]

Brilliant............ooooooh Briiiiillliiiiant........here boy!!!

Dam - I just knew this would end in tears!

[mcloughlin2]

Robdog mate - better take that down.....

:wink:

Im pretty sure rytis and brilliant are not the same guy... :D

Rytis didnt know how to spell properly and never tried to use big words....

Brilliant even if he is ignorant does know how to type and spell etc.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


one of the admin's should know the ip, maybe the site logs it

Pro could check that out if he wanted.... :)




ok lets look at this Mr. Smartypants -

do you know how much RO costs in Asutralia? more than "one years worth of water conditioners". do you simply not waterchange for 1 year while you save up for your RO? this is why we have those lovely little chemicals made for aquaria ;)

OK now I get it. This is the reason. Me close minded? You cant afford what I suggest so it turns into this? LMAO...

Oh no! I lost my cut and paste....If you guys dont get it by now....uhh.

I like the peat twist. Its great. Please post a reply where I renounce the use of peat. K Thx.



LadyRed I was hoping you had more then that.

That is not what he was trying to say. He never said he cant afford it, but since discus can live in a ph of 7 why not just use water conditioners?

Wouldnt make much of a difference....



Brilliant all jokes aside - how long have you kept Discus and how many successful spawns have you raised? I'm not being smart - I truly am interested.

The reason that I ask this is because the majority of the people that you are going head to head with have been successfully breeding Discus for quite some time and therefore I think you have to give Credit where Credit is due - they obviously know what they are doing with regards to their water parameters because their Discus would not be breeding otherwise.

It is a well known fact that poor water conditions cause stress on Discus and cause illnesses and the end result is no Discus.

R.O. unit are fine for those who can afford them but I can assure you I have no intentions of giving my Discus up and unless someone takes pity on me and my Fish there is no way I will ever be able to afford one.

If you would just listen to what the Forum Members offer as advice instead of insisting that it is your way or no way, then perhaps you would also learn something.

Marg.
Marg.

A majority of the folks posting here are sticking up for their mate. I think this advice to keep a Discus in pH 7+ is dumb and only be lenient with those that do it. I dont mean to be the Discus Nazi but I really think someone should say the things I am saying. I dislike those who suggest off parameters, like their own personal water parameters I think they should keep that to themselves if it conflicts with the fish's native water.


PS yes I am keeping Discus for how long? My Discus spawned yesterday. Do you want pics? They are barely of age to spawn. The pair is growing just fine still...

No not sticking up for their mates, just backing up what they have said....i know from experiance if you say something that is not correct on this forum you will be corrected....

Just because you pair is what 8-10 months old and spawning does not mean it is because they are being kept in super RO water....just means theyre a good pair....just like humans, some no what theyre doing others dont....:lol:

I can provide a small section out of a TFH magazine article on discus that states that discus can be kept in ph range of 6-8...

Discus have learnt to adapt due to being kept in captivivty for years....they have no idea of what ph they need to be in....

As long as its kept from the extremes they will remain healthy...

[Robdog]

Im pretty sure rytis and brilliant are not the same guy...

Stupid is as stupid does...

Oh nearly forgot, K Thx!

[samir]

maybe its a dual personality thing...maybe the RO he's taking about means Rytis' Offspring.

[goldenpigeon]

goldenpigeon wrote:


ok lets look at this Mr. Smartypants -

do you know how much RO costs in Asutralia? more than "one years worth of water conditioners". do you simply not waterchange for 1 year while you save up for your RO? this is why we have those lovely little chemicals made for aquaria


OK now I get it. This is the reason. Me close minded? You cant afford what I suggest so it turns into this? LMAO...

Oh no! I lost my cut and paste....If you guys dont get it by now....uhh.

I like the peat twist. Its great. Please post a reply where I renounce the use of peat. K Thx.



LadyRed I was hoping you had more then that.


your a funny guy brilliant, like rob said i never told you i couldnt afford it. for all anyone knows i could be a millionare, just because i dont have RO doesnt mean im not! i hate it how people just assume what other peoples finacial standing is.

you still havnt answered my questions from further back when i asked you how old your fish was when your ph raised above 7.0.

[Brilliant]

I have a Siberian Husky and an Alaskan Malamute at home and I keep them in a refrigerated biodome in my backyard to recreate their natural environment.
I plan to breed them and create striated Sibaskan Huskamutes but only if I can accurately control temp and conditions will this be possible

This is exactly what I think about when I read all of your posts. My neighbors dog...Siberian Husky...sitting outside on the hot concrete in the summer laying around like they are dead. But boy that dog sure did look cute when it was a puppy....( Rodbog says....DUR...lets just get it because we can...oh yeah it looks cute too)...thats selfish to me and I think its terrible.

I guess I am just an animal lover. Oh yah call the police because ur not keeping pH correct...LMAO...that was the funny one. If its not illegal it must be right huh? LOL do you guys have any morals? Wait dont ansewr that its just my point I am not coming back again. Type what you want Im done.

I realize your all too dumb to comprehend what I am saying here. And too dumb to realize the reasoning of my suggestions. Too dumb to realize I my goal is for the Discus to have the perfect habitat and help anyone get it. Wihtout your trash buffer or pH down. Mcclaughlin2 your dumb as nails when it comes to Discus and water parameters, youve read all ive read when it comes to additives like that and you still ask the same dumb question.

As youve all grown sick of me for being strict and/or harsh. Ive grown sick of your stupidity. If you dont realize the fact that higher pH is suggested because of convenience your kidding yourself. Just like that smoker that throws their butt thinking its not littering.

Some people actually care about the pets they keep. Reading your posts makes me sick in the stomach. You could all care less. I may have been the ignorant one here thinking this way, you sure as hell made it easy for me.

Have a nice life :)

[samir]

BBYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!! :wave :wave :wave :blob :blob :blob K Thx

[zipztar]

LOUD NOISES

WHY ARE WE YELLING

I LOVE LAMP