Gill Fluke Questions ?

[Dee]

Hi All,

I seem to be having a reoccuring problem with gill flukes. I have treated with AquaMaster gill fluke and tapeworm 100mg prazi tabs at 5ppm as directed on the bottle. I also did the second treatment seven days later, also as directed on the bottle. The second 48 hour treatment finished last tues pm 10/5/05.

With both treatments, it seems symptoms slowly dissipate then seven days later the symptoms reappear which lead me to thinking it's a flukes problem, (gill flukes life cycle being approx 7 days). Symptoms are flicking of dorsal and pelvic fins, clamped and single gill breathing, flashing against objects in the tank, hiding, diminishing appetite and what I can only describe as kinking their body's sideways, if that makes sense?. The effected ones sometimes "clamp up" before flashing against the objects. Not all discus in the tank show these symptoms.

My water is as follows --

Ph 6.8
30c
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
KH 2
I have been using AquaSonic carbonate hardness generator powder to raise KH from 1 or under. This was done over a 2 week period which in turn has raised my PH from 6.4 to to around 6.8ish ... again this was done over a 2 week period in my water storage tank, not quickly and has stabilized my Ph.

I change 30% water daily, storage water is activated carbon filtered, KH adjusted, aerated and heated to 30c for 24hours prior to pumping into the main tank.

My questions are ...

1. Can flukes lead to diminished appetite, it seems appetite picks up then drops off again after treatment ?
2. Can flukes effect some fish and not others ?
2. Are there any other water parameters that could cause such symptoms ie: heavy metals etc. anything else I should be testing for ?
3. Could the addition of KH generator powder be causing this ? If so I will use shell grit.

or

Do I just have a persistent case of super flukes ? Should I just redose with prazi as described above ? I just dont want to be to heavy handed with the prazi, as it does seem to effect the fish mildly during the 48 hour treatment period. Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to include all the info I could. Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

Cheers,

Dee

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Dee,

I have had similar issues over the last 2 months with flukes, just couldn't get rid of them completely even after using both Sterazin and Prazi. In the finish I used Trichlorofon which worked but my Discus did not like it at all, it appears to be a very heavy drug and caused them to become quite aggressive and nervous. I was using alot more than the recommended dose on the advice of my vet which is probably why I got the side affects but it did the job.

Flukes can put fish off their food if the infestation is bad enough. They will also affect some fish and not others in my experience. I don't know the answers to your last two questions but I doubt your Kh powder would cause these symptoms.

In my opinion it is no use giving them another treatment of Prazi if your first two doses didn't work, I would try something else but maybe give your vet a call first, most of them are very helpful and don't charge like the rest of the medical profession or at least mine doesn't.

I think treating resistant strains of bacteria and parasites is quickly becoming an everyday part of Discus keeping in Australia, the problems being brought in from overseas are scary to say the least and to be frank something needs to be done about it but that's a debate all of its own.

Best of luck shifting those pesky little suckers!
MAC

[Merrilyn]

Dee, unfortunately I'm hearing more and more of these super resistant strains. Perhaps it's time we all put our heads together and see where we stand on this problem, and just how many of us have been affected.

[Ben]

Hi Everyone,

Dee, i have just had the same problem, i finshed the second treatment of prazi just over a week ago and it looks like 2 tanks have had a reocurance of flukes. The Fish still seem to eat quite well though.
I have a 1000ml bottle of formalin i am yet to try, but i want to try it on some "guinea pig" discus first as formalin is very dangerous stuff!

What i will try for the dosage rate of formalin is
2ml for every 36 litres of water, %90 water change at 8 hours, repeat 3 times over 3 days.

As Merrilyn said, we all need to put our heads together on this one.


Ben

[CKY]

Ben what strength formalin are you using? If It's aquarium industry strength should be 37-40%, if it's medical strength you might knock off more than just the fluke. I would try Formalin first and then use Metro if 3 treatments of Formalin have not worked It's preferable when using formalin alone to give the fish a short or long bath in it rather than treating the whole tank. If you need the doeages to do this let me know.

Try mixing metro in your food. Standard dose for mixing into your food would be 1000mg/1gram per 100grams of food.

[Ben]

Thanks CKY for the advise, the formalin i have is %37, and was purchased through an aquarium goods suppler. IT may take some time but i will set up a 2 foot tank with one discus for treatment.
See what happens....
Other than preserving 2 headed snakes what else is formalin used for?

Cheers,
Ben

[mistakes r crucial]

Does Metro treat flukes CKY?
MAC

[leanne31]

Im sure metro is for hex only not for flukes.

Leanne

[CKY]

Unconvetionally you can treat flukes via food with Metro. I would seperate the fish into a treatment tank and go from there.

[Dee]

Hi All,

Thanks to MAC, Merrilyn, Ben and CKY for all the info and advice, it's most appreciated. As for using Formalin or Trichlorofon I'm not confident I know enough about the use of these meds or their dosages to use them at this stage. Merrilyn, what can we do to put our collective heads together on this problem ? any suggestions would be great !

Well I hate to say it, but I think I have found the source of lack in appetite and some of the symptoms I described earlier. When I got home from work tonight, upon inspection of the tank I noticed some white poo which I quickly syphoned, this now leads me to the conclusion that I also have a problem with Heximeta which is very disheartening as I have been supplying 30% daily water changes, qaulity varied diet and a spick n span tank. I know that this has happened through my own doing some how, as all fish when I got them where eating very well and always very active and hungry with good solid short dark poo's. The only thing I can put it down to is the PH stability probs I had a few weeks back when my PH dropped pretty low. Apart from this (stress) I can't think of anything else that would bring on Hex. The only other thing that could be a culprit is the Prazi treatment as some fish where a lilttle less hungry during the treatment period, but I doubt it as many people have used Prazi with no probs.


I have a very good vet who I have dealt with in the past with Hex problems, so I have no problems in getting the Metro if needed. I will also ask him his advice on the fluke problem, which by the way the fish seem to be flicking alot less tonight. Anyway I feel the white poo situation is a more pressing issue at this stage, so best I adress that first. I'm slowly raising the temp to 33-34c in the tank and will observe over the next 2-3 days, if no improvment I will do a course of Metro treatment. I'm kicking myself about the white poo as I really have tried my hardest to give them the best care I can, except for my PH problem ... live and learn

Once again sorry for the long winded post and thanks to every one for their input, it's most appreciated

Cheers,

Dee