water changes for discus? what are you all talking about??

ok. first of all, i do not want to sound rude and i admit i learned a lot from this forum, it's been very helpful... but theres something i gota tell you before i go to sleep as tired as i am:

i just got back from a 4 month, 1 week vacation. last time i saw my fishtank was november 3, 2005. its a heavily planted 265 gallon tank, with 12 or 13 discuses (most full size), 2 quite large plecos.

i was in philippines, and although my dad would occasionally tell me fishes are still alive, i didnt know what to expect really....

ok, i walk in. all discuses are in super shape. then after i hug and kiss my dad for taking good care, my dad admits to me that he only cleaned gravel 3 times and changed water 3 times in 4 months, other times just add more water.
ok 2 of the fishes didnt seem to grow, but they all look even healthier then before.
i wonder what you all have to say about this?

Hmm, that's good news for me. I plan to go on vacation for 5 weeks and would not want anyone to change water for me since I have to treat my water.

There are few things working for you: The size of your tank(265 g), heavilly planted and the small fish load(you are using about 1/2 of the tank can hold) all helped. I guess your fish are still young, that means they don't require the full 10 g water per fish yet, which is another thing work for you.

If your dad did not over feed them, I guess the tank can handle that. I would not do that all the time since the fish may not like it. You can get away for a period of tiem but the water condition is going to catch up with you soon or later. Also, more water changes help the young to grow bigger.

Firstly, not everybody has a 1,000L tank (the bigger the tank, the less maintenance is required)

Secondly, not everybody has a heavily planted tank. Personally I have a couple of smaller planted tanks (with some fish in it) and one of those tanks is lucky to get a water change every 2 months, it gets evap top ups and that is about it, the fish are thriving.

Thirdly, I and many other will gaurantee you, that had water changes of been done, your fish would more than likely be even healthier and larger.

Every tank is different, the main key to succesfully keeping Discus is clean water and/or very low or no traceable Nitrates. Being that you have a heavily planted tank, your Nitrates will be largely absorbed by the plants.

It has been proven time and time again, especially with juvenile Discus, regular water changes assists with faster and healthier growth. Yes, without water changes they will live and grow, but the difference is easily visible.

If water changes werent needed are we saying that just about every single breeding facility in Penang and other places are just wasting there time???

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i wonder what you all have to say about this?

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Comments like this certainly don't help the point you are trying to make.

^ agree with you there!

IMO the reason your tank was in a good state was because of all the plants, the tank is not overstocked and your filter must be perfectly cultured. so basically i guess the nitrate and all were taken care of by the plants and filter. but the fish didnt grow because of no new water.

rytis how was your trip to the philippines?

Cheers
Ben

trip got boring after a while, but it was ok.

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If water changes werent needed are we saying that just about every single breeding facility in Penang and other places are just wasting there time???

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good point. i agee that they would have grown more if waterchanges were done regularly. but what the hel, im just glad theyre alive and well... i will resume regular water changes now.....

Welcome back from your trip Rytis. Very pleased to hear that your fish are all well.

Your dad did a great job by not overfeeding the tank, so a big pat on the back for dad. As has already been mentioned, your very healthy tank, with thriving plants and large volume of water have all helped to keep the water fairly stable. Minimal feeding has produced minimal waste, and your plants have been able to utilize the nitrates produced.

Years ago, this was referred to as a "balanced tank" long before water testing kits and water changing became popular. The tanks in early Victorian drawing rooms had no heating or filtration, and probably never any water changes, yet the fish survived for years. But the one thing they did have was, that they were heavily planted, and contained very few fish, usually only a goldfish or two, and they were only fed once or twice a week.

Now, I wouldn't recommend this as a regular routine, but it does go to show that discus fish are pretty tough, and can survive with minimal care, but as you have noticed, it doesn't encourage them to grow and breed.

Glad to hear that they're all alive and well. :P

yep they're allright... but i think they should be a little bigger, i do suspect a stunted growth. i was wondering where is the thread to read about stunted growth? seen it before on this board.... like can they still breed? can the growth resume?

im doing 1/2 water changes weekly now...

Some odd things were believed and done in the olden days (some of which apparently worked... even as recently as the 1960s and 1970s ...
my father's master (master because my father did his glassblowing apprenticeship with him and in germany at the time, and still now, there is still a fairly strict master/apprentice relationship in the glass field) had a tank that was heavily planted with cryptocorine and sealed, with a heating mat and no filtration. I can't remember how big the tank was, but from memory about 2ft long x 1ft high x 1.5ft deep.
He had snails, snail-eating fish and vegetarian fish in there, can't remember what they were exactly (gimme a break, I was 5 years old). There were maybe only 5 or 6 fish in there.
Apparently this tank had been going like this for 3 years when I saw it!!!!
Granted, the fish obviously weren't happy enough to breed, but they were sustained ...
Personally I would be loathe to do anything like that! But I think he did it as an interesting experiment. He was a consummate fishkeeper, with (at the time) extremely rare fish in his tanks, including wild discus ... and his glasswork was without peer. I also remember he had a cabinet full of "uranium glass" which glowed in the dark when a UV light was shone on it ... put a geiger counter near that stuff it goes off like mad!!!

anyway, that's my little story
my advice is don't try this at home

Believe it ... or not!

Chris

I would not stay close to the uraium glass cabinet :-)