whose responsibility ..

HI

just got some question need to ask.

If i bought 2 discus from other state and i pick those package up from airport and got home and figure they are dead. Is this seller's responsibility or my fault.? It's my first time buying Discus from other state so i did speak to seller carefully before i proceed the purchase and he mention everything to me and want me to call him when fish arrived and i did.

They are package one in each bag. However when i open the foam box and took them out, they already dead in the bag, and i tried to rescue them by putting them in the tank still it's dead.

Now seller is sort of blaming the AAE rough handling or my rough car of causing those Discus death.
Generally speaking, if someone buying fish from other state and they arrive dead, whose responsibility and how are these issue gona be solved ??


thanks

Have you and the seller agreed for refund for DOA?
Cheers

he said he worn't refund me the money.

Because he said it's not his fault, he send it healthy and blaming might AAE's rough handling or my drive. He also said he only sell few discus and doesn't run a business so he is not responsible for this issue.

Hi there,

Where the fish double bagged atleast :?

Was the much water ,and was there plenty of oxygen in the bags when you opened the box?

Also did you take some pics of them after you opened the box,
as you will need them, and can you post them if possible

HTH

hi

i bought 2 discus from this guy. One discus in one bag. so they were separated.

When i open the foam box. water was around less than half in one bag. And both bags were really that full with oxygen in it. it was sort of loosen.

Took picture when i open the discus bag with me holding the bag and fish is dead. i can send you pic to post here coz i don't know how to post up pic.

cheers

pic

Hi,

I have only ever had discus delivered twice. The first time from Adelaide, one of the 3 fish i purchased was very lathargic when i got it home but the others were in good condition. After a few days all were healthy and now 12 months later they are doing great.

My other time was 12 discus from Cairns. They were 4 pairs plus 4 others. They were bagged together 2 in each bag. When they arrived i found 1 dead on arrival (the biggest pair :( ) and the rest were ok but ragged, cut, dammaged etc generally as i think being 2 in a bag they were hitting each other and the plane trip, car trip and handling would have made them bang into each other. Now a few months later the dead on is obviously still dead, 10 of them are very healthy and looking great and 1 other is not eating and looks like it will die in the next week or so. The guy who sent them did a great job double bagging them, put rubber between the bags, filled with oxygen and even oxygen stones in the bag. Even so, i think 1 hour longer in the bags and several of the others may not have made it.

My guess is that they are safe in bags generally for around 2-4 hours. 4 - 6 hours you have a good chance. Longer than 6 hours then unless the person packing them is extremely good and put in lots of oxygen, prime and so on then you might be in trouble. That includes time from puting in the bag, taking to airport, waiting for the flight, the flight, waiting for then to get collected, the trip home and then the time until the first water change in the bag. I know its a lot longer when fish are shipped from overseas to quarantine but ive also seen a lot of dead fish in quarantine tanks.

I have also had several experiences with marine fish as i have several marine tanks as well and found that marine fish have a higher chance of being DOA.

After all that, I think that usually in these cases its buyer beware as long as the seller has taken reasonable precautions to ensure the fish were well packed and left as little time as possible in the bags before leaving the airport. I guess its like when something is lost in the mail, its the buyers problem and not the sellers.

I am sorry for your loss and i know how heart breaking it is to have a fish DOA. I'm usually very very reluctant to get fish from interstate unless they are from very trusted and experienced sellers who have shipped fish several times before or organise help from someone who has.

On the other hand ive received lots of snakes from interstate and never lost a snake from shipping yet. They are very good travellers.

Kevin.

Hi,
Here's my 2 cents worth. The discus in pics look quite large and the bags might not hv sufficient oxygen. Bags might hv loosen abit cause of the air pressure but should not be flatten like the pics, unless both bags had already been opened. Did the AAE packaging include fragile and fish/livestock stickers? Cause I'm very sure that the handling would be extra careful with these stickers. My best best would be not enough oxygen cause with proper oxygen, they should last for atleast 12 hrs. Sorry for your loss and my guess would be normal air rather than oxygen used in those bags.

unfortunately unless you had arranged a DOA agreement BEFORE you paid for the fish, its all your problem. seller has no need to refund etc no matter if they packed them properly or not.

buyer beware.

thanks guys.

when those two discus arrive. the bag was bit loose , one bag has around 1/3 water and the other one is around 1/4 water in the bag and not much oxygen in it.
Two discus are around 12- 13 cm include tail.

There are AAE's fish/livestock stickers on the foam box. and it's sealed. I dont' think bag has been opened before it arrived.

Each fish are placed in 3 layers of plastic bag. Therefore, unless the seller did not pump oxygen into each of the bags, otherwise, i don't see any reason the oxygen would have gone from the bag.

Hi JT, were these albino alenquer discus you bought from another member on last weekend?

What else was in the box other than the 2 bags of fish?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ivo

Hi JT, were these albino alenquer discus you bought from another member on last weekend?

---

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17939

hi . .

beside two bags of discus. there were some kind of plastic bag with air in it . . . however, the whole box is not really fill up with those bag, therefore the discus bag was sort of horizontal . . .

i bought it from "discusfantasy" who put those discus for sale last saturday.

Also . .

since yesturday i got home and found out those 2 discus were dead, i call him straight away. He answer the phone and said he is driving and will call me back in 30 min. After 40min he didn't called me so i called him and his friend answer the phone and told me he is still driving and will call me in 5 min.

I wait and still no called. Therefore i call him again and no one answer. Up till 11.30pm i have tried to called him 3 times and no one answer. around 11.45pm he message me saying he is at party and he can't talk, and those death discus has got nothing to do with him and it's AAE's rough handing and my rough driving that cause those discus' death.

And he called me a "Blander".

Hi,

I think there was something wrong with them before he sent them.

Have a look at all is other posts he isnt having much luck with his tank.

Just my 2 cents

Cheers,
Dave

hi . .

i have went back and read all his post and realised that he has problem fighting the tap worm and few other problems with is Discus.

Therefore i think, those discus are ill before he send to me and that's why he is not answering the phone and went straight to party after i spoken to him about the dead discus . . .

Hi,

I dont think this is fair or right by you JT, slander is not right or allowed by anyone.

I have sold about 12 discus out of Victria & never once had a DOA, I got all 12 discus baged and boxed at a local aquarium shop that does this for a fee as part of a service they offer.

If i was a breeder or discus importer/exporter then i might agree with credit or refund on DOA (BUT THIS WOULD BE DISCUSSED BEFOR ANY SALE WAS MADE)

I am just a discus lover like you are but sold all my discus because want to give my tank a good clean and remove.

You at your own free will pm me & asked me if i can freight to you & i said yes.

If for any reason i thought the fish will not make it to you do you really think anyone with a full mind who uses this site offten will send them to you & risk been banned?

NEVER ONCE did you or I even discuss DOA or any conditions whats so ever , did we?????

No because you & I did not think such thing will happen or are we discus buisness dealers to lay out any condtions.

I am sorry about your loss & wish things were diff but im sorry there are always risk when dealing with life stock.

IF im wrong please someone correct me beside JT?

1 last thing, i was not avoiding your call but was at a party lastnight & got back to you when was free.

Thankyou

for your info thats a 2nd tank...what discus dont have gill flukes?

hi JT, i saw discusfantasy previous posts which indicate he is having problem with his discus and it seems he is quite inexperience with discus, thats why i asked you whether you bought from another member. also, if he is only a hobbist unless he went to his local lfs to pump pure oxygen in, otherwise, there was no pure oxygen for the discus to travel. i don't think many hobbist would keep an oxygen at home.

Mr Ivo

Read befor you speak

i did read and then i spoke. got a problem with that?

yeah i do..if you read it corret you would of seen i said quarium packaged the discus

well

that's what you said and if you did paid fees to get that package done. Can you please kindly post the receipt please...???

Also. whether you go to party to enjoy or not that's your freedom.

BUT. you did not get back to me at all mate. . That's put it this way. If you really want to say those discus are healthy and it's my fault. Why didn't you call me as you promised to discuss this issue but went straight to party ????!!! You said you will call me straight away when u finish driving and did you ?

Another reason we didn't discuss about DOA is because as i spoken to you on the phone. it's my first time buying discus from other state. Why will i think those discus will die when it arrive ?? WHY will i question you at first place.?? this place is the place where ppl trust each other.

BUT now . . .i doubt. . .

And " Slander" - - - - -

every discus has gill flukes. It's how you maintain it.
If the discus is super healthy, it still has gill flukes but not showing.

It's like human. tell me that within your body, there is not a single parasite..!!!

discusfantasy, if you read the time that i posted compare to yours, you would be able to work it out. got any picture of your second tank where your discus were darting, and died one at a time?

hi JT, i think you should just forget about it. next time when i phase out some of my discus i willl pm you to have it or them for free.

Thats a top offer IVO

discusfantasy, do you have another log on user id on this forum known as "fishhouse"? if i mistaken that please accept my apology.

look at the tank in this thread
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/vi...hlight=#140551

and compare the second picture in this thread
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/vi...hlight=#132728

Well picked up there ivo.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Its obviously the same tank. :LOL:

I understand that its buyer beware but cmon mate. Be a decent human being and come to some arrangment. It looks to me like the discus were not packaged very well and thats your responsiblity.

Karma always catches up with you in the end.



Ado

thank you so much IVo

i would love to buy some good one from you and make a friend .....

And YOU GOT HIM.....

I should also mention that ill take any discus you want to trow away IVO. ;)



Ado

That's what i was thinking too..

IF he really did take those lovely discus to local aquarium to package them. they should have enough oxygen not deflated bag.

yous are so sad

LMAO

I think we all know who the turd is here mate. I think would be a great time for admin to wield the mighty ban stick !!!!!!!! You're not related to Jeff Fennech by any chance are you???


Ado

Sydney boys all the way lol

Now he starts throwing out the compliments.... ;)


Ado

Hello Discusfantasy,

You should try putting urself in JTs position?

Would you want some sort of compensation if you picked up fish from airport and found them dead?
You can put in a claim with AAE u know!
As its only Melb to Sydney ,not long at all
Discus can go many more hrs in a bag its only when that bags opened that things can go wrong :roll:
Im betting the fishs immune wasnt the best when packed and that this is why uu found them the way you did.

If this happened to me i would want you to b a man and sort this out

Put it down to experience?

My 2cents worth

I really feel for JT here, that's alot of $$$. discusfantasy/fishhouse, just be the man in this and return his money or at LEAST some of it. Why? because JT has done nothing wrong, he trusted you(enough that he didn't even think about DOA) and they arrive DOA. If the fish were in top notch and double bagged with pure oxygen, they wouldn't of arrived dead.

Obviously YOU are hiding something. JT has done everything he can to try and get his money back, he even took the pics of the fish as PROOF. He constantly tried to ring you, when you picked up you said you would ring him back, but did you???? NO, you made up another excuse that you were partying.... even if you were at a party, you couldn't even spare 5 mins to speak to him?

If you or anyone of us are in JT's position right now, i'm sure we would want our money back, especially when its hundreds of dollars. As i said, JT has done everything he can including pics and trying to contact you. Just be fair

you guys are so off track about fishhouse

im not refunding anything cause i did nothing wrong, if i baged them then im at fault but the aquarium did