Dark discus

[sonflowerjoela]

Hey Everyone, I have a problem with my discus. They sometimes turn all dark. One of them gets black. Two of them are extremely shy and the other one will eat out of my hand. They all eat well. The one that turns black I have seen flashing off of things in aquarium. I don't have all the water tests you guys do. But Amonia is 0, Nitrite is 0, ph is 7.2 and temp is 88 degrees. Any suggestions?

[scott bowler]

hi sonflower if he is rubbing him self on things he my have gill fluke that would make him feel very off if not treated try some sterizin or something like that , it may be a good idea to treat all off them hope that helpd

[fishgeek]

flashing is either due to water quality or external parasitism

no one can test water for everything so a large water change and then mucous smears or scrapes would be appropriate to look for external parasites

andrew

[FishLover]

Hi sonflowerjoela

Looks like something is not right for them. When discus are stressed, they turn dark. Something in your tank is makeing them doing that. Any tankmates? How often do you change water, how many of them in the tank? How big are they? How often do you feed them?, with what? How much? When did you get them? Since when they started turn dark? Memphis should have hard water and what do you use to control pH? How often do you measure pH, for both tap and tank water? Lots of questions.

More details please so we can have some clue.

[sonflowerjoela]

3 Cobalt Discus in 55gallon with 5 Orange Von Rio Tetras, and 4 Penguin tetras. I feed them Wardleys flake food, Jack Wattleys community health food (frozen) and another that has a mix of stuff like blood worms, flakes, mini stiks and tubifex worms. I usually feed them 3 to 4 times a day. I do a 30 to 50 % water change once a week. They range in size 3 to 4 inches guessing. I bought them 10 - 08 - 2006. I read on this forum and lots of other places not to worry so much about ph as about water cleaness. I measured water hardness and it is 90ppms by my tester. I also use a tap water filter when I do the water changes, that takes a lot of hardness and other junk out. The guy at LFS store said my water tests were good. Dont remember what they all are. I put instant amazon in there and start right just incase the filter doesn't get all the chlorine and cloramine out. also electro right. I think I answered them all LOL. The one that turns black has always done it since I got them. They are shy except the one.

[FishLover]

Few things I can think of:

1. You may have a pH swing issue. You need to measure the tank pH before and after water change, then 24 hours after that. If your water is like mine, you will see huge swings. Especially if you are doing 50% WC at a time. While some discus can be OK with higher pH levels, huge pH swings will stress out any fish, even kill them. You should not have more than .3 pH changes within 24 hours period.

2. You could be over feeding them and in turn mess up the water. 4 time a day with frozen food is very easy to load your tank with nitrate if you are doing once a week water chagne.

3. You did not say what kind of tap filter you are using, most of the water soft filter for house hold usage is not good for fish.

4. I would just use Prime to do the de-chlro job. I would not trust the filter to do the job unless it is an RO unit. Not sure start right is the right thing to use here.

5. Since your discus are kind of new to your tank, about a month or so, I would do more water changes to get them used to your tank. of course, you need to make sure the pH swings is not a problem before you starting doing more water changes.

6. I would also add an UV unit in the tank to take out any nasty things may bother the discus. They could be so used to the breeders tank water and trying to coope with your water parms. Any extra help will release some stress for them.

Hope this help.

[sonflowerjoela]

Hey thanks for help here is link to water filter www.drsfosterandsmith.com if you do tap water filter in search box it brings up the filter it is the only one. I am going to do a water change when I get home from work. If you feel 50% is too much what would you suggest. I was told to do that with young ones to make them grow more. I may need to do it twice a week. All food isn't frozen only community health food. The other stuff I feed is dry. I will do ph tests on water tonight before I change water, and on water going into tank, and tank after water is changed and let you know what it says when I'm done. I really appreciate all your help!
:) Do you recommend using water like it is instead of trying to soften it? Or lower the ph?

[sonflowerjoela]

Ok I did the water changes last night. Here are the water ph readings. Straight out of the tap is 7.4, the tap water filter is 6.0 before adding electro right, after its in the tank it is 7.2 that was the reading last night. Right now it is 7.2. I did not use a lot of the tap water filtered water because of what Fish Lover said about ph swing. The fish are looking better, they were looking better before I did the water change so I'm not sure. Thanks for help anyway.

[scott bowler]

hi sonflower the fish my be happier in ph of 6.6to 6.8 a ph of 7.2 may be too high we have tap water of around here of 7.2 so i have to drop it a little to 6.8 iknow that fish can do ok here at 7.o so i hope you work things out good luck

[FishLover]

It looks like you have a pH swing for sure. That will stress out your fish. What about the temp? Did you match the tank water and new water for the same temp? These two thing will stress the fish, even kill them if the difference it too big. Temp wise, you should not change more than 3F for each water change.

If you are adding 6.0 water to the tank and it is reading at 7.2, and you are doing 50% change at a time, for sure you will stress the fish out. If my math is right, you will have a ph swing of .6 each time you do that. Doing 2 25% water changes will be much better in this case. It still gives you a .3 pH change. I would try to match the source water and the tank water in pH and temp.

Here is what you need to do. Save some water from the tap water filter and measure the pH. Then measure it again after 24 hours. This is tryng to establish if your water will change pH after a giving period. Mine does. The reason for this maybe the Co2 in the water is making the pH reading low. After it is aired out, the pH shoot back. If that's the case, you need to age your water or use something to reduce the pH.

You also need to measure your tank water pH again tonight to make sure there is nothing in your tank that changes your pH.

Another thing to think about is the lifespan of the tap water filter. My understand is that it can only produce up to 150 g of good water. After that you will have to replace the filter media. Maybe you need to do that too.

I would aim to keep the pH around 6.5 if possible.

[FishLover]

One more thing, some of the de-chlro products will change your pH too. You need to make sure what you are using does not change your pH when trying to get your pH reading stable. Anything you added to your tank need to be looked at if you are trying to find the cause.

[sonflowerjoela]

I am keeping water temp the same as in the aquarium. The tap water filter does have to be replaced after it turns colors. I don't know if the electro right changes ph of water or not. It must because the tap filter water is 6.0. I add the electro right, instant amazon, start right which removes chlorine and chloramine. The ph is 7.2 now and it was last night also. I also did not do 50% last night I intend to do the 2 25% changes. I did not use as much of the filtered water in this tank because of what you said about ph swing. So do you think I should just not bother with the tap water filter?

[sonflowerjoela]

Also the fish are fine now. They are out eating playing and acting normal. They are no longer dark any of them. So maybe it was a fluke :?: :?: :?:

[FishLover]

I would use the tap water filter. Just find out which one is changing you pH, dechlro, electro right or instant amazon and stop using it. Take a cup of filtered water, add one of these at time and test pH after each addiition. When you found the product that changes you pH, stop using it. Most likely it is your de-chlro or electro right. If it is de-chrlo, tyr to switch to Prime, which does not change your pH. If it is the other, I would stop using it.

Once you bring your water close to your source, you will have much happier discus.

Two questions, how long does the tap water last? How many gallons of filtered water do you use for each water change? I was thinking of getting one and but put off by the fact that it is only good for 150 g of water or so. I use 45 g water at a time and the $25 filter only good for 3 water changes, about a week and half since I do 2 WCs a week. Bit too much for me.

[sonflowerjoela]

Sorry but I can't find my receipt when I bought that thing. I believe it was in september. I will change cartridge in a few days and let you know if possible how long this one lasts. I'm on the 2nd cartridge since I bought it. I do think it is a little on the expensive side, and I just got a new catalog from them and the price of cartridges had gone up! :x I really don't measure the water either. I have a python that I take water out with and I'm just cleaning gravel and usually when I get thru cleaning gravel is when I stop and then I refill by buckets because of using the filter. It takes a long time to get enough of that water to refill. It is like 30 seconds to fill one cupful is the flow rate that the directions say. So it takes a while. I have a 40 quart trash can I bought just for this and I let it fill and pour into bucket as able. It is really a pain but my discus are worth it. :wink:

[sonflowerjoela]

Hey I'd like to ask you another :?: :?: :?: I also have a 72 gallon in living room with discus in it. 4 growing discus I bought 4th of July. There is one that is huge! compared to others he seems peaceful and gets a long with all occasionally nips mean one cause she nipped him. There is this other one that is almost as big as big one and it will get around the other fish roll back nose to ceiling and turn dark, and flutter. One of the other discus who is an evil queen lol bites this fish when it does that like it is really irritated with it. And I've noticed now it has some bumps not sure what you call them it is not white spot ich I know what that looks like. What do you suggest doing about this. The thing is if I walk up to the tank with this going on it will right itself and swim over for food :?: :?: :?: I have weird discus. Any ideas on what this fish is doing and why? do I need to do anything about it?

[scott bowler]

hi sonflower has it got velvet look on its skin if so it can be treated the same way as white spot its another fungus that they get on ther scales and it looks shinny you will see it when it turns dark good luck with it all

[sonflowerjoela]

I don't see anything like velvet on the skin.