Temperature for breeding?

[SandyLynne]

My pair have spawned so many times and we even got to the wriggler stage once.

Again all of my eggs are turning white. :cry:

What tempature should the tank be for eggs?

Should it be the same temp or higher for wrigglers and babies?

What am I doing wrong.

Obvoiusly they are male and female and a fertile couple as they have had wrigglers.

Temp 29.7 C
PH 6.6
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
KH 1
GH 4

[mcloughlin2]

Anywhere from 28C to 32C.

[samir]

imo 84 f is best. are you getting fungus ? is that canister on when they are spawning ? have you dewormed etd ? what are you feeding ?

[Merrilyn]

Hi Sandy, I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I think you've just got fairly young fish, and they are still learning how to get things right.

Young males are easily distracted from doing their job, so sometimes it helps to cover the back and sides of the tank, so there is nothing to take his attention away from the job in hand.

You may have a little too much current in the water, with that cannister filter going. Most breeders use a sponge filter in their breeding tanks for filtration. It doesn't make too much current, and the fry are in no danger of getting sucked up.

Another thing you can try, is adding methylene blue to the water, as soon as the pair have finished spawning. Don't add it any later than the day of spawning, because it can affect the formation of the slime coat on the parents. Once the eggs begin hatching, you can do a fairly large water change to remove most of the meth blue.

HTH

[marg]

Merrilyn,

Once you add the Methylene Blue, what is the process regarding water changes, and do you keep the tank covered while you are waiting for the eggs to hatch?

When you add the Methylene Blue to the water, what ratio do you dose a standard 2 foot breeding tank with?

Do you wait until all the Eggs hatch before you do a water change?

marg.

[Merrilyn]

Hi Marg, the idea of the meth blue is to prevent fungus forming on the eggs.

Soon after the eggs are laid, you add the correct dose of meth blue to the water. Just one dose, and no more. Depending on the strength of the different brands, the directions on the bottle will give you the correct dosage.

As soon as the fry begin hatching, usually after around 60 hours or so, begin doing water changes to remove as much of the blue as possible over the next few days.

You should find that the fry begin to attach as per normal, and you have saved a bigger percentage of the eggs from fungus.

Some pairs are excellent at fanning their eggs, and keeping them free of fungus, but the meth blue is useful if you find that thepair are a bit lazy and don't look after their eggs properly.

HTH

[SandyLynne]

Hi Merrilyn

Thankyou for your reply.

I have just gotten home from work and all the eggs are either white or have been eaten again :cry:

This is a dumb question. :oops:

The filter in the front left of the tank picture above, is that what you mean by a sponge filter. If so I just need to remove the canister then?

Also once the eggs begin hatching, wouldn't doing a fairly large water change be a shock to the wrigglers and kill them off?

[SandyLynne]

Tom & Alice have spawned again & I am about to add the methylene blue.

What % of waterchange will I do?

Do I do daily water changes of 10%

[samir]

you can put some activated charcoal in the canister you have there. it will remove most of it. i drain water to the level of the eggs and then top off the tank with a small power head, takes about an hour to refill, not sure if thats recommended, but works for me.

[SandyLynne]

Thanks Samir

I have never used Meth Blue before, I can barely see my pair in the tank, it sure is very dark blue. :cry:

[samir]

it sure is. you can avoid the need for methylene blue if you put the pair in a sterile tank each time, and don't leave any leftover food. it is also very important to give the fish a salt dip or treat them for flukes worms etc before you add them to the breeding tank. good luck with the breeding

[SandyLynne]

Thanks Samir

Gee this is turning into a fulltime job :roll:

[Merrilyn]

Just wait till the fry start free swimming, and you have to begin feeding them, then you'll really have a full time job :D

If they spawned on Sunday, you can wait till Monday night or Tuesday morning to begin removing the meth blue. As Samir suggests, add a bag of carbon to your canister filter, and it will do a wonderful job of removing the blue colour from the water.

Then just keep up with your daily waterchanges of around 10% while the fry are still hatching and attaching to the parents.

Once you're past that stage, and they are firmly attached, you can begin to do larger waterchanges, up to 30% each day, and when you begin feeding them, you will need to do 50% water change each day to keep the tank spotless.

The sponge filter I'm talking about is just the small black filter in the left side of the tank. Most breeders have that filter only in a breeding tank. We find that the canister filter creats too much current in the water, and the fry often disappear up the filter intake.

I'd suggest you remove the canister at the moment, and just work on the sponge filter alone.

Good luck with you babies.

:P

[SandyLynne]

Hi Merrilyn

Thankyou for your reply.

Please excuse my ignorance on this matter, I am a total newbie to breeding.

If I remove the canister then I cannot add carbon?

The eggs were laid Sunday afternoon, Should I
Forget the carbon and remove the canister filter or
Wrap the canister intake with filter wool then remove the canister in a couple of days when I have wrigglers.

I am concerned about doing a large water change and adding water back into the tank. Wouldn't a large water change shock the wrigglers and kill them?

Should I be doing a 10% daily water change over the next few days starting tonight?

I am so excited and really hope to get this right for once. Well I hope Tom & Alice get it right with a little human & meth blue assistance. :P

[samir]

you should remove the canister when the eggs start hatching,also you will get more wrigglers if you do not use the canister at all. 10% wc's should be fine but do try and get the methylene blue out.
heres what i got with one of my pairs
1. with canister filter 0-10 wrigglers. (about 4 times)
2. with sponge filter 30-40 wrigglers. (twice)
3. with sponge filter off during spawning 70-80 wrigglers. (twice)

[SandyLynne]

Hi Samir

I guess it is a lot of trial and error.
I have done a 10% water change and added the carbon.
I will remove the canister tomorrow and see how we go.

Fingers crossed :wink:

[samir]

good luck, its fun for the first week or so and then it just turns into a series of water changes :D . i think most of your eggs are white because you have the canister in there or could be the male is inexperienced.

[SandyLynne]

I am finding very quickly that this hobby seems to keep multiplying and I feel as if I am stuck in water change heaven :lol:

I am now upto 3 tanks with a 4th & 5th being planned.

This hobby is very addictive & slowly taking over my life but I am loving every second of it, even the water changes etc.

Can't wait to get a hang of breeding though. I am well on my way I guess.

This morning the tank has cleared a little of the blue and I can actually see Tom & Alice now :-)

This afternoon I will remove the canister and do another 10% water change, fingers crossed.

BTW thankyou so much for your help.

[samir]

Tom & Alice :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: any eggs turned black yet ?

[SandyLynne]

It is still so blue :cry:

I can see Tom & Alice but barely see the eggs.

Is a 10% water change morning and night too much?

[SandyLynne]

I have wrigglers woohoo :D

Looks like more wrigglers than last time but my water is still so blue :cry:

[jacksta]

Hi guys,

I'm not sure if it's true but i have heard people say that black sponges are no good,becasue the fry would get lost and think the sponge is their mother?

cheers,jack

[Jeroen]

Hello Everybody...

Sorry haven't been here for a while....very busy :(
Anyway, have got a complete new breeding setup with 10 tanks (me happy ;-)
The breeding is still not going as it should (see previous posts) but atleast some small succeses...and got finally some baby swimming

@samir:
You wrote in this topic: have you dewormed etd ?
Can you tell me what you use to deworm and how often you should do this ?

I have breeding problems allready for more over then a year...
I tried to eliminate all problems, and I am pretty sure I did

I slowly start to believe that is has to do with some bacterial thing

Microsiemens: 225
Kh 2
Ph 6.8

I have 10 pairs...and from most I know they are proven pairs.

As i noticed, when eggs are not good or nog fertilized they will become white between 12 and 24 hours, by me they become white between 36 hours and 48
Filtration is ok, WC are ok...so the problem is more kind of bacterial I believe

Do you have any suggestions ?

Thanks
Jeroen