The Next "Big" Project

[Proteus]

In partnership with the members of Aquatic Gardens Australia (http://www.aquaticgardensaustralia.com) I am about to embark on a mission to not only set up an 800L C02 injected Planted tank, but one exclusively using ADA - Aqua Design Amano products, all the way from the Power Sand and Aqua Soil range, to the glass bubble counters, diffusors, light units and fertilizers.

No expense will be spared (shhhhh, dont let the other half know) and I hope this will be one of many Australian tanks to appear in the 2007 International Aquatic Plants Layout Contest.

Some of the details that are already set in concrete.

Tank: 150 x 75 x 68cm (5 x 2.5 x 2.25ft)
Background: Universal Rocks natural rock background
Lighting: 3 x 150w MH, 4 x 24w Power Compact, 2 x 18w Power Compact
C02: Sera System including Computer Controller
Heating Cables: Red Sea/Dupla cables

As for the theme, layout, that is open to debate. Personally I have a preference for a total covering of the tank base with the Amazonia product, and from there, ideas are required. Should it feature wood pieces, or be Iwagumi themed???

The tank being built by Xtreme Aquariums is nearing completion, and the cabinet and equipment mentioned above is on hand.

This should prove to be very interesting.

[Proteus]

Link to the same project on AquaticGardensAustralia.com

http://www.aquaticgardensaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=337

[DR.V]

ADA stuff is the way to go for quality planted tanks. But they're a bit expensive I guess.

What fish do have in mind for this project ?

Good luck Pro.

[Nathan]

thatl be awesome to watch in the process, cant wait for lots of piccys

[Proteus]

ADA stuff is the way to go for quality planted tanks. But they're a bit expensive I guess.

What fish do have in mind for this project ?

Good luck Pro.

Actually, ADA stuff is far from expensive.

To give you an idea.

ADA AquaSoil 9L = $62.95 (@ $6.99 per litre)
Red Sea Flora Base/Dupla 5.4L = $53.95 (@ $9.99 per litre)
Seachem Flourite 7L = $69.95 (@ $9.99 per litre)
Caribsea EcoComplete 9.2L = $77.99 (@ $8.47 per litre)
JBL AquaBasis Plus 2.5L = $12.95 (@ $5.20 per litre)

These are based on non discounted prices, and given the high quality of the ADA Aqua Soil I think that shows just how competitive the prices are.

In regards to the basic Fertilizers I could do the same comparison, however most of the ADA liquids are very highly concentrated, requiring 1ml per 20-25L whereas something ike Sera Florena is dosed at 5ml per 20ml.

Fish... Have not decded on that yet, but depending on what temperature the plants that are chosen can tolerate, I may put Discus in there.

[DR.V]

I was thinking ADA stuff in general as in the CO2 setup, filters , plants pinsettes, scissors, etc.

Hmm... the soil is not that expensive ^^ might got some when they're available.

Can I suggest that you use a tank with no plastic corners ?? ( not sure what they called ) and the edges are bevelled ( spelling ? )

IMO, planted tanks looks nicer in these tanks.

Good luck.

[Mulisha]

This might sound werid me saying this but that Machitle Green stuff for medicating has a green dye and after i had dose my tank all my silcon went green and this IMO makes it look 100% better just my oppion though. Is there going to be fish in the tank at all?

Good luck mate

[oscar]

Pro,

90cm is 3ft not 2.5

[shewey]

Hi Pro,

Sounds awesome. What brand is your lighting unit? Is it an all in one? ie. are the MH and the power compacts all in the one unit? I like the Giesemann 230 which has a similar setup but looking for something a bit cheaper. :)

Looking forward to the progress of this project!
Shewey

[Proteus]

Pro,

90cm is 3ft not 2.5

I just noticed that... thats what happens when you are getting several tanks built at once... the 3ft wide tank is the 7ft'r

[Proteus]

Hmm... the soil is not that expensive ^^ might got some when they're available.

Can I suggest that you use a tank with no plastic corners ?? ( not sure what they called ) and the edges are bevelled ( spelling ? )

IMO, planted tanks looks nicer in these tanks.

Good luck.

All the Aqua Soils are available now.

I was going to have stainless steel/aluminium strips put on the corners but having thought it over a little it will be left as is (cleaned up though). It wont have bevelled edges though as the back, sides and base panel are all set and cured. (the front and side edges will be dressed up though via a cutting stone)


Is there going to be fish in the tank at all?

as per previous... Fish... Have not decded on that yet, but depending on what temperature the plants that are chosen can tolerate, I may put Discus in there.


What brand is your lighting unit? Is it an all in one? ie. are the MH and the power compacts all in the one unit? I like the Giesemann 230 which has a similar setup but looking for something a bit cheaper.

Looking forward to the progress of this project!
Shewey

It will be an Aqua One MG1500. The 3 Halide tubes are going to be replaced with the ADA - NA Lamp MH-150w. The 6 Power Compacts will be of various Kelvin nd lumens (to be decided). This unit has seperate switches for all 3 Halides, and banks of PC's (with seperate leads for timers etc). I like the Giesemann units and down the track may get one, but the price on the Aqua One unit was too good to knock back (in combination with geting several other pendants for the 7ft x 3ft tank which will be running 2 Halide fixtures on it)

[shewey]

That Aqua One unit looks good. I think I will get one myself for my next 6 footer project. With a 2k saving over the Geisemann, I think it is not a hard decision. :-)

Shewey

[Proteus]

That Aqua One unit looks good. I think I will get one myself for my next 6 footer project. With a 2k saving over the Geisemann, I think it is not a hard decision. :-)

Shewey

In all honesty, the unit is great value. The lights that come standard are of a good colour temp (14k) (10k is too yellow).

I will be replacing at least 2 of the tubes, but the existing tubes will be used as spares for the halides above the 7ft tank

[mtchye]

Hi,

You mention a 3 foot wide tank. I am thinking of getting one also, could you post the dimensions and glass thickness, numbers of straps, stand details etc if you don't mind?

Cheers
Vincent

[Proteus]

Hi,

You mention a 3 foot wide tank. I am thinking of getting one also, could you post the dimensions and glass thickness, numbers of straps, stand details etc if you don't mind?

Cheers
Vincent

It will have a 15mm base (heavy). Sides will be 12mm, bracing will be on all sides and there will be 2 bridges going front to back.

[Davo]

Pro,

How many bags of Aqua Soil do you think I would need as a stand alone substrate in my 4x2x2 (430 lt) tank.

Dave.

[Proteus]

Prob 3-4 9L bags of Aqua Soil Normal and one 9L bag of Powder...

[apalsson]

To give you an idea.

ADA AquaSoil 9L = $62.95 (@ $6.99 per litre)
Red Sea Flora Base/Dupla 5.4L = $53.95 (@ $9.99 per litre)
Seachem Flourite 7L = $69.95 (@ $9.99 per litre)
Caribsea EcoComplete 9.2L = $77.99 (@ $8.47 per litre)
JBL AquaBasis Plus 2.5L = $12.95 (@ $5.20 per litre)

These are based on non discounted prices, and given the high quality of the ADA Aqua Soil I think that shows just how competitive the prices are.


Are all these prices from the same shop?
Do any of them include freight by any chance?

I'm asking because I bought Florabase for $45 for a bag and know that a 7Kg bag of Fluorite is $53.85 at Aquatic Life Aquariums.

I'm keen to know where the pricing is from

Ari

[AussieStar]

cant wait to see it going and i wish i could do something like this lol

[Mulisha]

cant wait to see it going and i wish i could do something like this lol

Don't we all but $$$ stops most people :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Proteus]

Are all these prices from the same shop?
Do any of them include freight by any chance?

I'm asking because I bought Florabase for $45 for a bag and know that a 7Kg bag of Fluorite is $53.85 at ALA.

I'm keen to know where the pricing is from

Ari

These prices are from several shops, and/or online retailers. (APW, ALA, Aquaria, etc)

None include frieght.

As stated in case it wasnt noticed, non discounted prices have been used, heck, currently APW has Flora Base @ $39.95 a bag & Flourite (dark, not the Red stuff) is on special for $59.95 (it pays to shop around)

The 7kg price for Flourite is for the regular dark Flourite, not the Red variety which ALA sell for $53.85. (as a comparison, APW DOES have both Flourite varieties listed and Red is cheaper as it is not very popular ($54.95)).

The other thing to factor in to this, the prices that APW has on the ADA products are the same as what you will pay in a shop. This is the standard retail price and I doubt you will find any fluctuations of more than a dollar or so, online or in store. (this cant be said for many other products which can be almost double the price in some stores).

[Proteus]

cant wait to see it going and i wish i could do something like this lol

Don't we all but $$$ stops most people :lol: :lol: :lol:

At the end of the day, you get out of it what you put in it. No other substrate on the market can claim 10 years of successful use in a single aquarium without the need for additional root fertilisation, or having the issue of root rot etc. This isnt just a substrate, it is a system.

Obviously you can go all out, or you can just use parts of the system, the point I am making is on a per litre/kg basis ADA substrates are a very competitive option. All you have to do is look at any of Takashi Amano's taks and the proof is in the pudding... (plus the many thousands of entrants in the Annual Aquatic Plant Layout contest which all use ADA products)

[Davo]

If you need any convincing on the merits of ADA substrates go and have a look at www.plantedtank.net (http://www.plantedtank.net) Go to the forums and have a look at the substrate section. It is being raved about there.

[Proteus]

If you need any convincing on the merits of ADA substrates go and have a look at www.plantedtank.net (http://www.plantedtank.net) Go to the forums and have a look at the substrate section. It is being raved about there.

Bear in mind, most people on PlantedTank are from the U.S. and Jeff from Aquarium Design Group (U.S. Supplier) has only really started to market the product in the past few months (the previous supplier did nothing and made it very hard and expensive to obtain, so it was very much a luxury item until recently).


I've tried every substrate listed here and few that have not been.

Overall, for the hobbyists, ADA Aqua soil is the best stuff I've used.

If you are lazy or simply do not want to bother with the KNO3 stuff, KH2PO4 etc, you might want to consider the power sand as well.

Regards,
Tom Barr

(for those that dont know, Tom Barr is very well known throughout the planted tank community)

[shewey]

Hi Proteus,

Do you have any thoughts on what sort of plants/look you will be going for in this tank? With that much light and co2 you will get awesome growth. Do you think you would go with any high maint plants such as a glosso foreground etc?

I think you probably don't need the heating cables if you go with aquasoil, ferts and co2. You should get fantastic growth anyway. Unless of course this is simply a way of keeping your heating system out of line of sight.

Good luck and can't wait to see the pics one you get to the set up stage.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Robdog]

I seem to recall Pro saying that so expense would be spared so this might explain the heating cables.
I don't think they'd have enough oompf to heat the entire tank so they would just serve to keep good circulation in the substrate.

[AussieStar]

Yea ADA products would be great to have. And being a planted tank member for many of years been waiting for it to come out in aus but atm short on cash casue i just got a new car lol

[Nathan]

the heating cables are NOT going to heat the tank, just the substrate, as rob said it helps with circulation an also helps prevent root rot.

[apalsson]

These prices are from several shops, and/or online retailers. (APW, ALA, Aquaria, etc)

None include frieght.


Sorry to keep harping on this but I think you may be wrong here.
This is a snippet from the Aquaria website regarding Ecocomplete:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Due to weight this item is shipped via bus freight or Australia Post ($44.50 included in the product price). Express delivery is not available on this item, Allow 10-15 days for delivery.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't this indicate that the product price is actually $77.99 - the $44.50 freight component, or $33.49 for the 9.2 litre, or $3.64 per litre?

At any rate, I suspect that Bert and the guys at Aquaria wouldn't mind having a voice in the discussion.

Regards

[Proteus]

Firstly, Bus Freight... that is a joke considering there are several courier companies that will send 10kg for approx $22.50 from Perth to East Coast. 10-15 days delivery is not very efficient... anyway.

Do you see anyone of the calibre of Takshi Amano using something like Eco-Complete? no, and I know there is a reason why. As for the price difference, fair enough, there was a reason why I used AquaBasis being that it is quite cheap. To give an fair spread of price difference.

In regards to someone having a say they can, but if they have a commercial interest outside of the sponsors on this forum, then that is a different matter.

I will reflect back on a comment that I read by Tom Barr some time ago, "Flourite, Eco Complete, Duplarit, etc are all good substrates. But if you want something that is streets ahead, try Aqua Soil". Bear in mind he has used jus tabout every substrate known to the planted tank enthusiast.

In regards to the heating cables, they may not be used after all... I am still a little up in the air about that and will decide upon further investigation of other peoples results in a tank this size.


Do you have any thoughts on what sort of plants/look you will be going for in this tank? With that much light and co2 you will get awesome growth. Do you think you would go with any high maint plants such as a glosso foreground etc?

Not yet, and the final look will result in a lot of what you guys & gals suggest, hence why this project is to be done this way.

Once the tank is in place, all products and substrate is ready to go, then a series of posts and polls will be conducted to create the look of this tank. Ambitious, yes.... but I am sure it will work out very well.

[Robdog]

Just wondering what kind of filtration you'll have in this tank Pro? After looking through a few of the Aquajournals, the way the tanks are done without any visible filtration is really impressive.

[shewey]

Hey Robdog,

I think Amano removes all visible items, such as heaters and filter pipes etc before taking photos for publication. Its also a common thing to do if you are taking photos of your own tank for the planted tank contests etc.

Mind you one thing ADA does that is great is the use of the glass lily pipes for the filter intakes and outtakes. They are very pleasing on the eye, unlike the bright green tubes and pipes from eheim etc. :-)

Cheers,
Mark.

[Proteus]

Just wondering what kind of filtration you'll have in this tank Pro? After looking through a few of the Aquajournals, the way the tanks are done without any visible filtration is really impressive.

This is where the ADA glassware really stands above the rest, yes it is expensive, but the Lily Pipes are made from the highest grade starphire glass, and are used as both inlet and outlets for both canister filters and sumps.

I am having a Back to Nature type background (made locally to order) which will conceal all the plumbing, and I will be using a sump that will be designed in such a way that there will be little or no C02 loss via the filtration process (no trickles or spray arm etc). The filter will only be set to a low turnover rate at first, perhaps only 2-3 x the volume of the tank per hour (this can be inreased later)

[apalsson]

Firstly, Bus Freight... that is a joke considering there are several courier companies that will send 10kg for approx $22.50 from Perth to East Coast. 10-15 days delivery is not very efficient... anyway.

Do you see anyone of the calibre of Takshi Amano using something like Eco-Complete? no, and I know there is a reason why. As for the price difference, fair enough, there was a reason why I used AquaBasis being that it is quite cheap. To give an fair spread of price difference.
.

I have no opinion on the freight costs but have contacted Bert from Aquaria to ask their view of the matter. I trust I can forward them a link to this thread for their input?
It seems only fair that if their business name is used here, they get to have a say in the discussion.
Regarding the product itself, I have no opinion either because I use home made substrates with good results.

[Proteus]

This is a publicly viewable forum, and I am not about to change that, so by all means a link can be provided. However, what content is allowed to stay online is up to the discretion of the mods and admins, that is the same on any privately owned forum. (especially in relation to commercial links or comments).

Your initial tone in one of your earlier posts came across with a commercial feel to it, hence why a guard is being put up.

There business name is not only mentioned, others were as well, and it was in response to your question that this was done. Other stores and OLS also sell these products, many a lot more expensive. I tried to capture a good range of products and prices, for other members to make there own judgement on the comparison.

In all honesty it would appear you have other motives in mind given that this thread is about a tank which is about to be set up, that I am paying for to give others an idea how the Amano system works. Nobody else has been concerned over the comparisons.

I still do raise the issue of it costing $45 (taking 10-15 days) to send a 9L product from Perth to Sydney, yet to send a 9L bag of ADA to Perth from Sydney costs $21 and takes 2-4 days (this wont be an option though as ADA is available in Perth at Seaview Aquariums for pick up or delivery).

Back to the topic... I have taken delivery of the light, images to be posted later

[apalsson]

This is a publicly viewable forum, and I am not about to change that, so by all means a link can be provided. However, what content is allowed to stay online is up to the discretion of the mods and admins, that is the same on any privately owned forum. (especially in relation to commercial links or comments).
I agree with you here, strange as it may sound. You own the forum and should therefore have the right to decide what is published there.


Your initial tone in one of your earlier posts came across with a commercial feel to it, hence why a guard is being put up.
I'm not so sure what you refer to here. I simply spotted a bit of misleading information and decided to
ask the question.


There business name is not only mentioned, others were as well, and it was in response to your question that
this was done. Other stores and OLS also sell these products, many a lot more expensive.
I tried to capture a good range of products and prices, for other members to make there own judgement on the
comparison.
This is where I wanted to assist by ensuring that you had correct information for myself and other memebers.



In all honesty it would appear you have other motives in mind given that this thread is about a tank which is about to be set up, that I am paying for to give others an idea how the Amano system works. Nobody else has been concerned over the comparisons.
I'm genuinely interested in planted tanks, especially amongst hobbyists. It's most appreciated that you are
publishing a tank-journal, even though it is obviously done to market the products you sell. It still costs you significant hard earned cash. This is most appreciated by myself and without doubt, anyone else who follows the thread.



I still do raise the issue of it costing $45 (taking 10-15 days) to send a 9L product from Perth to Sydney, yet to send a 9L bag of ADA to Perth from Sydney costs $21 and takes 2-4 days (this wont be an option though as ADA is available in Perth at Seaview Aquariums for pick up or delivery).
I agree with that point. $45 is excessive, however you stated that "none of the prices include shipping", yet you
chose to quote pricing that did and omit to mention that your pricing on ADA is plus delivery (in this case $21)


Back to the topic... I have taken delivery of the light, images to be posted later
Look forward to seeing them

[Merrilyn]

Gee back on topic guys.

This thread is not about who is selling what cheaper than anybody else.

I believe the figures quoted by Proteus were a 'ball park' figure only, intended as a guide, and that people should do their own comparisons.

As previously stated, this is his own tank and he is paying for all the stuff personally, so perhaps that should be kept in mind.

[Mulisha]

Can't wait Pro for some pics of those mean lights on the tank :shock:

Maybe you should stand in front of one of the lights to show everyone how powerfull MH really are :lol: :lol:

Can't wait mate this thread should be heaps once some pictures get on the role spose i am addicted to pics anyways :lol: :lol:

Good work mate

8-)

[shewey]

I'm with you Rick!! I'm especially interested in seeing the light pics since I am thinking of getting the same ones myself.

Looking forward to seeing how Proteus's tank pans out...no pressure though Proteus. :D :D

[Proteus]

This is where I wanted to assist by ensuring that you had correct information for myself and other memebers.

To be honest, I didnt even look in the product description, I based the price on what is displayed on the index page for substrates (maybe that is something the sites owners should look at fixing - I say this as constructive criticism, thats all).

ok, time to get the camera out.

[Robdog]

Stop bickering Proteus and get back to your tank. :roll: I thought you'd have the whole thing finished by now! :lol: :wink:

[Mulisha]

Stop bickering Proteus and get back to your tank. :roll: I thought you'd have the whole thing finished by now! :lol: :wink:


LOL

PICS! PICS! PICS!

I say "no more"...

[Proteus]

I can sense the anticipation... dont want to dissapoint...

Tada....

[Mulisha]

awww were is the out of the cardboard box pics :lol:

I was getting excited you posted and then i see a cardboard box :lol:

Spose i think i'm getting over excited hehe :P

[Proteus]

Sorry couldnt help myself...

Anyways, here goes...

The unit is very well packed, foam all round, and wrapped in plastic.

[Proteus]

For such a unit (i.e. not one of the high end marquee brands) the parabolic reflectors are of a very high quality. I havent attached the side strips yet, as the brackets may get damaged sitting on the ground).

[Proteus]

The unit comes with 2 x power cords (1 for MH, 1 for PL) and 4 switches.

1 switch controls all PL lights, and each Halide has its own switch. The centre halide also seems to have a delay switch so the 2 end lights warm up first before it starts (all switches activated at the same time).

Here are some pics of the PL tubes 4 x 24w, 2 x 18w Total = 132w

(one pic with flash the other without)

(all PL & HQI tubes will be replaced, this comes equipped for a Marine set up)

[Proteus]

Once all tubes were running at full power, man oh man.... where are those sunnies 8-)

[Proteus]

All MG light fixtures also come with not only the ceiling hanging kit, but a modular system to mount the light fixture on your tank. The height can be adjusted by adding or removing a section, an when at full height, ample clearance is given to the tank...

No other MH fixture of this size comes with this to my knowledge (please correct me if anyone knows of another brand)

[Mulisha]

wowser that's insane !!

Those globes look blue or is that how all MH look what K rating are they?

Very nice pics and i bet u could get a sun tan with them hehe :lol:

thanks for showing them

[Proteus]

The PL tubes are actinic (very high on the blue/purple spectrum)

The MH tubes are 14000k which is a very clean bright light, at least 2 of these will be replaced with 8000k ADA bulbs

[DR.V]

Pro, so you can put the MH on top of the tank (on top of lids)? using that kit shown "kit (Medium).JPG" ?

What is the maximum height there ?

Are they from APW ?

Thanks

[Proteus]

Pro, so you can put the MH on top of the tank (on top of lids)? using that kit shown "kit (Medium).JPG" ?

Yes, so long as the small bracket will sit on the edge of the tank (will take a few more pics now)


What is the maximum height there ?

Check that now for you...


Are they from APW ?

Thanks

Yes, that is where I got mine from.

[Proteus]

Max height from tank top/lids 26-28cm.

Pics show how the brackets sit on the side of the tank... (just used the 510 holding tank for this)

[Nathan]

with the tank Pro are you gonna have a hood on the top covering the MH's? if so will you need a way to cool the cavity where your MH will sit between the tank an top of the hood?

id think itd get very hot wouldnt it?

[Proteus]

with the tank Pro are you gonna have a hood on the top covering the MH's? if so will you need a way to cool the cavity where your MH will sit between the tank an top of the hood?

id think itd get very hot wouldnt it?

No hood at all, and the tank will not have lids either except for a 100mm skirting panel round all sides

[DR.V]

Skirting panel ? Is that like shown in the AR- 510 tank ? Like a plastic thing covering all the top of the tank ?

I was thinking if you use MH like that and no lids, the water will evaporate at high rate ( especially in summer ). You might have to add some water every 2 or 3 days.

For your project, are you going to hang the MH or use the bracket ??

Good luck Pro. Looking good !

[Proteus]

Skirting panel ? Is that like shown in the AR- 510 tank ? Like a plastic thing covering all the top of the tank ?

It is a 100mm glass piece that sits approx 30mm below the top of the glass and goes right round the tank, similar to the strips that you lids normally sit on. (the 30mm space is specific so the MH brackets fit securely).


I was thinking if you use MH like that and no lids, the water will evaporate at high rate ( especially in summer ). You might have to add some water every 2 or 3 days.

The room this tank is being set up in sits on 18-20c all the time (Summer & Winter) as it is technically underground. I will still have glass panels made to place over the tank at nights and when I am away, so eveaporation shouldnt be much of an issue.


For your project, are you going to hang the MH or use the bracket ??

Good luck Pro. Looking good !

Bracket for the initial set up

[Mattzilla]

looks wicked!!!!


god i'm lucky that you live just up the street...i'll get to see this puppy in the flesh

i saw that tank being built yesterday and it looks great!

[AussieStar]

IF only i had the money again lol thats lighting setup is madness

[ashley]

Hi Pro,
Can the existing light setup on the Aqua 1 be taken straight off the tank and this one fitted straight on with the hight adjusters?
And if so, does the whole settup look as good as the old flouro light setup?
Im thinking it may look a bit strange with the trickle filter behind it.
Im looking at one for my Aqua 1 1200

All the best Ashley

[Benny]

nope. You need to keep a distance between the tank and the Metal halide globes for heat reasons. You will loose too much water and turn your tank into a kettle if you put metal halide over a tank with no gap between.

You also risk shattering the glass covering the globes if any water gets splashed onto it.

[Proteus]

As per previous, there needs to be an adequate gap between the glass/water and the light unit.

[ashley]

Ok, So I would need to loose the trickele filter and perhaps go with a canister, and just have the light unit only on top.

[Proteus]

Ok, So I would need to loose the trickele filter and perhaps go with a canister, and just have the light unit only on top.

Not really... a few tweaks to any sump type system could make it more practical. You just want to minimise the water breaking.

[Proteus]

Update:-

The tank is almost finished (latex rock background installed a few days ago).

Over the next week a basic layout will need to be decided.

Should it be a thick lush planted them from end to end gradually building up in height towards the back. Or should there be rock or wood pieces to build around?

There is also the option of having a small front area of decorative sand, with the planted area being Amazonia soils... any suggestions or debate is welcomed.

[*Chris*]

your late option decorative sand and plants stirrs up the image of a stretch of vegetation taken directly from the amazon river itself i think if you have put so much effort into this tank so far
why not go the full hog on the layout????
EXAI

[mtchye]

From footage of this great documentary (which i believe was shot around the tapajos area) called Amazon Abyss, if you want to go natural as possible it appears as if the biotope contains predominantly sandy bottoms with tree roots and branches strewn about. I didn't see very much vegetation at all..

Would be nice with some XL species of swords perhaps? But seeing as you are going the whole hog with the CO2 etc Dutch style with a single wooden centrepiece would be awesome too ;)

Good luck making your choice!! :P

[Mulisha]

I reakon like a huge cave in a bit of driftwood at one end so there is a big almsot shadown in a spot for more the anubuis or low lights plants so they don't excess algae..

I thing a ground cover like a grass NOT a ricca becuase to be honest everyone has ricca etc maybe try do something complety different that stands out from the rest even though it will anyway.

One other thing are you going to be adding a bit of current into the tank so everything sways etc :P :P

Not sure if you like my ideas but i think a big hollow log at one end that casts a shadow for watever fish to get a bit of cover.

Also like said above MASSIVE sword or Red Lotus or something that is massive as a feature plant...

Good lcuk mate keep us updated with pics 8-)

[Proteus]

I reakon like a huge cave in a bit of driftwood at one end so there is a big almsot shadown in a spot for more the anubuis or low lights plants so they don't excess algae..

Since I already have several very large pieces of wood one may be used for such an effect.


I thing a ground cover like a grass NOT a ricca becuase to be honest everyone has ricca etc maybe try do something complety different that stands out from the rest even though it will anyway.

I am very much interested in not only setting up a quality planted tank, but one that uses native plants. I am very intersted in this local variety of Glossostigma (Glossostigma diandrum).

http://www.aquagreen.com.au/plant_data/Glossostigma_diandrum.html


One other thing are you going to be adding a bit of current into the tank so everything sways etc :P :P

YES... this also assists in getting that nice ripple effect from the Metal halides.


Not sure if you like my ideas but i think a big hollow log at one end that casts a shadow for watever fish to get a bit of cover.

Also like said above MASSIVE sword or Red Lotus or something that is massive as a feature plant...

Good lcuk mate keep us updated with pics 8-)

Whilst I do like swords and Lotus, I want something different. Heck, it would be nice to enter this into the ADA competition next year knowing all the plants are natives to Australia. There are some nice plants out there.

http://www.aquagreen.com.au/catalog.html

[shewey]

Hi Pro,

You should put in a clump of Rotala mexicana. I believe it is native to Australia but I could be wrong? Its a very beautiful plant. With your lighting set up and being a stem plant it would probably grow pretty fasy and require frequent trimming...it depends whether you aregoing to go for stem plants or not.

I guess another thing to think about with such a deep tank is whether you want a high maintence tank (stem plants, glosso etc) or whether you want a tank with more slow growers. I think that link to the glosso d. is a good idea.

Good luck and keep us posted with the pics.!

Mark.

[DR.V]

How about go around Sydney's swamp or river to find some weird/native plants, then grow that in your tank Pro ?

Just like Amano going to amazon to find new plants and inspiration ^^

Then you tank will really look "Australian"

Hehe

[Proteus]

How about go around Sydney's swamp or river to find some weird/native plants, then grow that in your tank Pro ?

Just like Amano going to amazon to find new plants and inspiration ^^

Then you tank will really look "Australian"

Hehe

Only if you check the swamp out first DR.V

:P

I think for this sort of a tank the plants would need to come from the Northern states. Most plants around here might not be able to tolerate the higher water temps

[Mulisha]

hey i have a freshwater creek type of thing about a 1hr up my river and the fresh water is black but it is connected to the river. Would those lilly pads in there be ok to use in a tank :shock: :shock: :shock: also the driftwood up there there heaps of wood just floating around in there..

Also i came up with a different feature for your tank Rohan don't make a cave get tree stump ..

What i mean is a tree stump that still has it's roots connected still and stick out the top of the tank a bit so it looks more real in a way.

get what i mean :oops: :wink:

LOL

Rick.

[Proteus]

Here is one piece of wood which doesnt have a home at the moment...

It can be stood up, on its side, at an angle, etc etc

[Mulisha]

That first picture with that stump is the best how is the tank u want it to stck out make the tank look bigger and use the feature of having a open top tank 8-)

That wood in the first pic must have cost a few $$$ looks very nice!

Rick.

[Proteus]

It is the same piece of wood in both pics (just front & back).

This new tank will have an open top

[Mulisha]

Ok nice the first pic made the stump look heaps bigger lol

Maybe you might want some other peoples oppion heaps of might disaggree with my choice.. :lol:

[Proteus]

It is still some time before the final layout is decided so any opinions are welcomed

[Xtreme]

Go the picture of the tank in my shop when we were building it LOL!!
Oh so long ago it seems.....

My advice for the ADA tank:

Find an expert tank manufacturer - CHECK!! :lol:
Dont move house - eva again. ( :P )
Dream up a vision in your head, draw it on paper, and then run with it.
Use the wood.
Do use the sand at the front.

And the last thing.... Dont stress, have fun and dont rush it!

Cheers big ears! :P :P :P

[Proteus]

Sand is nice at front, but I think a lwan of native glosso will be more effective

[shewey]

I agree! The glosso will look great since you have the lighting power. It all depends on the look you are going for of course. :-)

[Mulisha]

Yeah this tank will rock and native glosso will look good !

I think you should go with plants people sometime don't use in aquariums or haven't used them the way you have. Something complety different is the way to go i reakon 8-)

I have to disagree with one thing with you exteme - He has to rush becuase i want to see it completed LOL LOL!!! :lol: :lol:

[Merrilyn]

Ohhhh go for red. A tank full of red plants with dark substrate and black background would look soooooooooo wonderful.

Hmmmmm now that's just given me some ideas.

Time to start planting. :P

[Robdog]

You'll have to use the 10' if you want it to look any good Mez :wink:

Dam I wish I had a 10 footer :cry:

[Nathan]

im not sure if this has been discussed yet, but what sort of substrate system are you going to use.

are you going to use powersand underneath the aquasoil? or are you just going to have aquasoil as the substrate? is it going to be normal or powder?

would you still get 'good' results with just using ada aquasoil, or would you need other layers?

[Proteus]

Being that the entire ADA philosophy is based around using the products as a system that is what I will be doing.

I should stress now, that if you only use the AquaSoil, you will still get results that to date have been hard to achieve.

After weeks and months of reading up everywhere I want to try the system as recommended by Taksahi Amano himself (the other halfs eyes have already popped out of her head regarding this).

The first addition to the tank will be the powders:

Tourmaline BC
Clear Super
Bacter100
Penac P
Penac W

(It is interesting to note that the Penac products are very highly respected in the agriculture & aquaculture industries -
Penac P data (http://www.organicsa.co.za/Products/Penac/PENAC-P_Plant/penac-p_plant.html) )

The base of the tank will then be covered by 1 x 18L bag of Power Sand Special L.

(Power Sand is composed of porous volcanic stones, peat matter and various other rich organic source materials)

The next layer will be 7 bags of Aqua Soil Amazonia (Normal) with a top layer of 1-2 bags of Aqua Soil Amazonia (powder).

Kevkoi is currently at the ADA convention in Japan, once he is back online I will ask if he can give a more detailed response as to what and why.

[ml29]

Just wondering if the additions of the powders

Tourmaline BC
Clear Super
Bacter100
Penac P
Penac W

are necessary considering that you are using the Power Sand Special.

Only reason I'm asking is that I thought I read somewhere that it included the powders in the power sand special.

[Proteus]

The Power Sand Special does contain Bacter 100 & Clear Super, however given the size of the tank, and the fact that I would like to see this tank very heavily planted the extra powders will be beneficial.

[Nathan]

will you be using the ADA liquid fertilisers? is so which ones?

[DR.V]

Pro, what sort of CO2 setup will you be using ?

[Proteus]

will you be using the ADA liquid fertilisers? is so which ones?

Yes, I will be using them as required, i.e Step 1 for the first 3 months, then Step 2 for the next 9 months, then Step 3.

For NPK, I will be using Brighty K (Potassium) & Green Brighty Special Lights (Nitrogen & Phospherous) - all reports I have read state that Green Brighty Special Lights is excellent for Glossostigma, Riccia and other lawn effect plants.

Down the track I will also use when needed - ECA (iron), Phyton Git (Phytoncide) & Green Gain (Cytokinin, Trace elements & amino acids).

Some interesting info regarding the ingredients of the Step 1,2 & 3...


Green Brighty STEP 1 has trace elements such as iron, manganese, copper, zinc, molybdenum, boron, sulfur as main ingredients.
ADA also use desalinated deep sea water, as this water contains almost all the necessary minerals required for plant growth.

Green Brighty STEP 2 has more iron in its main ingredients, compared to STEP 1. Deep sea water is also used.

STEP 3 has more iron than STEP 1, and Potassium is also added.

Interesting use of sea water considering 99% of competitor products have fresh or demineralised water as there main ingredient.

[Proteus]

Pro, what sort of CO2 setup will you be using ?

I will be using one of my Sera systems with a larger bottle hokked up.

I will be using the controller, but only as a monitor until I get things at the levels I want. Amano doesnt use controllers, rather he adds air at night to compensate for the added C02 production by the plants.

Now all I need is the tank which was meant to be completed in the first week of August...

[Nathan]

do the ADA green brighty ferts have an expirey date? just curious as if u were to buy them all together would step 3 expire before you could use it?

[Nathan]

we NEED an update, an pics!! :D

[Proteus]

do the ADA green brighty ferts have an expirey date? just curious as if u were to buy them all together would step 3 expire before you could use it?

From what I have learnt, ADA products are made to order, i.e. if Australia orders 10 boxes of something, they are made then, I believe this is only for the liquids.

Based on other brands and products I would be guessing that 2-3 years would be the lifespan of these liquids (if someone knows otherwise, please correct this).

Updates will not be far away, still need the tank before I can get onto the fun stuff (and still have to make my mind up about the filtration configuration as well)

[Nathan]

Heating Cables: Red Sea/Dupla cables

perhaps you shouldnt use this as then it would show us a better indication of how well the aqua soils really work? just a thought


Also will you be using ADA power filters, an ADA filter media?

[Proteus]

perhaps you shouldnt use this as then it would show us a better indication of how well the aqua soils really work? just a thought

It has already been mentioned in this thread (somewhere) that I wont be using the heating cables. They will be used in another planted tank which will be using the Dupla/Red Sea products...


Also will you be using ADA power filters, an ADA filter media?

ADA Filter media, probably yes, at least some of it (Bio Rio), as for the Power Filters, they need approval first, and then there is the price.... :shock:

[Robdog]

No expense will be spared (shhhhh, dont let the other half know)

Need I say more? If a job's worth doing...blah blah blah

[Proteus]

I already have the filter lined up, and it will be a sump.

As much as I would love to add a Power Filter, the extra $1000-$2000 would go a lot further on another tank to set up, as well as the cost fo all the substrates, liquids and glassware that will be going into this project.

[oscar]

Jesus Christ you know how to dump money...

;)

[Proteus]

Jesus Christ you know how to dump money...

;)

I wont comment on this as I have no idea what you mean by that...

[Nathan]

^ thats funny!

wow i didnt think thyd be that much, well that is a good point, i think it would be better to put the money into the project, itd probly pay off one of your MH

[Proteus]

The ADA power filters are perhaps some of the most expensive available on the market, but then again, they are meant to be seen, not hidden away.

Aside from that the filters wont be available down here for a while (110/240v, compliance, etc).

What I will be spending my money on is the soils, ferts, glassware, light tubes & bulbs and C02 gear.

I could buy several MH units in lieu of one ADA power filter.

:wink:

[oscar]

Pro,

I meant that some serious coin is being invested (note that i did not say 'spent') in this tank.

[Proteus]

Pro,

I meant that some serious coin is being invested (note that i did not say 'spent') in this tank.

True, but I seriously hope to enter this tank, or the 3ft ADA tank that I am planning (or both) in the ADA 2007 contest.

[Nathan]

Good luck to you Pro!! Just curious as to how you enter? what sort of criteria is set for entrants?

[Robdog]

Is a sump style filter the best way to go if you are having pretty intensive C02 injection?? or is it just better for filtration?

[Proteus]

Is a sump style filter the best way to go if you are having pretty intensive C02 injection?? or is it just better for filtration?

On most of Takashi Amano'slarge planted tanks he uses sumps.

If designed correctly they are the best type of filtration for this style tank (no spray bar, no trickle chambers).

Will add some pics later of what Amano uses from Aqua Journal #131 (Sep '06)

[Proteus]

Pic as promised...

Bear in mind, the tank this filters is 6ft x 4ft x 2ft (1350L)

Note the layout of the media, and the fact that he pumps the C02 into the return line from the sump, this is also where the bubble counter is...

[rainbow]

Thanks for the pics on the sump set up.
I must be missing something, because I cannot see the beneift in having a sump on a large planted tank. In my experience, you cannot beat using one or two large Eheim cannister filters for XL planted tanks. They are easy to clean, service and maintain and most impotantly do a fantastic job. Not to mention whisper quiet. As I said, there is something here I am missing, but not sure what.

[Proteus]

Thanks for the pics on the sump set up.
I must be missing something, because I cannot see the beneift in having a sump on a large planted tank. In my experience, you cannot beat using one or two large Eheim cannister filters for XL planted tanks. They are easy to clean, service and maintain and most impotantly do a fantastic job. Not to mention whisper quiet. As I said, there is something here I am missing, but not sure what.

We are talking about tanks well in excess of 1000L and in some cases over 1500L.

Even 4-5 Pro III canisters wont have the media space that these sumps have, plus, even though the media/surface area is huge, the flow rate is minimal.

It all comes down to some basics in relation to filtration area, verses flow rates, even with canisters at minimum flow, it would be too much for a delicate planted tank, plus think of all the plumbing.

By using a sump the same way in which Amano does, EVERYTHING (filter, heating, C02, etc) is hidden away, plus the dispersion of C02 is much greater as it is being injected into the water returning to the tank.

The system I will be using involves no surface breaking at all, so C02 loss will not be an issue.

I have used and still use canisters, but they dont come close to what a 36x18x18 baffled (matrix style) sump can do in sense of filtration and ease of maintenance.

Each to there own I guess.

For the record, on my next planted tank once this is set up, it will be using a canister since the tank is only 350L

[Mulisha]

Thanks for the pics on the sump set up.
I must be missing something, because I cannot see the beneift in having a sump on a large planted tank. In my experience, you cannot beat using one or two large Eheim cannister filters for XL planted tanks. They are easy to clean, service and maintain and most impotantly do a fantastic job. Not to mention whisper quiet. As I said, there is something here I am missing, but not sure what.

We are talking about tanks well in excess of 1000L and in some cases over 1500L.

Even 4-5 Pro III canisters wont have the media space that these sumps have, plus, even though the media/surface area is huge, the flow rate is minimal.

It all comes down to some basics in relation to filtration area, verses flow rates, even with canisters at minimum flow, it would be too much for a delicate planted tank, plus think of all the plumbing.

By using a sump the same way in which Amano does, EVERYTHING (filter, heating, C02, etc) is hidden away, plus the dispersion of C02 is much greater as it is being injected into the water returning to the tank.

The system I will be using involves no surface breaking at all, so C02 loss will not be an issue.

I have used and still use canisters, but they dont come close to what a 36x18x18 baffled (matrix style) sump can do in sense of filtration and ease of maintenance.

Each to there own I guess.

For the record, on my next planted tank once this is set up, it will be using a canister since the tank is only 350L

I agree being able to hide the heater and everything and able to run a UV in the return line etc will make the tank much better.

[Proteus]

At the end of the day it comes down to the design of the sump.

I have used some in the past that were shockers, and have learnt by that and now have all my sumps designed the way I want them, with specific measurements used.

For a marine/reef tank I would use a tower system with spinning arm over a few thousand bio balls, for planted tanks, no spinning arm, etc etc

[Mulisha]

Hey Rohan are you going to be running a UV on the tank?
If so what brand model etc?
Also i sent you a pm a few days back :lol: :wink:

Can't wait to see it set up !! :D

[Proteus]

The tank will have 1 x 36w UV on it (PondMaster)

Got the PM, you should recieve mail in a couple of days, just havent had a chance to send it yet.... sorry

[Mulisha]

Sweet as mate and no worrys i don't think think the discus mind 2nd day w/c and 5.5 ph lol ... :lol: :lol:

[Mulisha]

Hey Rohan becuase you know a bit about everything i was woundering if that Pondmaster 36W could have like a 600LPH powerhead on it?
Would the 36W be able to kill bacteria and alage and free floating parsites?

I was reading through a few different sites and found this it's a portable UV and to me would be great if you ended up with a problem in one of your tanks etc.

Could the Pondmaster be set up like whats in link and would it work good against the free flocting parsites etc ..?

Thanks for ya help.

http://www.fellowshipofthefish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119

[Proteus]

Hey Rohan becuase you know a bit about everything i was woundering if that Pondmaster 36W could have like a 600LPH powerhead on it?
Would the 36W be able to kill bacteria and alage and free floating parsites?

I was reading through a few different sites and found this it's a portable UV and to me would be great if you ended up with a problem in one of your tanks etc.

Could the Pondmaster be set up like whats in link and would it work good against the free flocting parsites etc ..?

Thanks for ya help.

http://www.fellowshipofthefish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119

The higher the wattage of the UV and slower the flow the more effective it is. Anything lower than 600lph I would avoid due to the heat generated by the UV bulb on the quartz sleeve.

Any UV can be set up like that portable one, just remember, a 36w UV is over a foot long (a 9 - 11w UV would be perfect as a portable unit).

Although I do advocate using a UV 24/7 so a portable unit would be no use to me. (I have a UV on every one of my tanks)

[rainbow]

"We are talking about tanks well in excess of 1000L and in some cases over 1500L.

Even 4-5 Pro III canisters wont have the media space that these sumps have, plus, even though the media/surface area is huge, the flow rate is minimal.

It all comes down to some basics in relation to filtration area, verses flow rates, even with canisters at minimum flow, it would be too much for a delicate planted tank, plus think of all the plumbing.

By using a sump the same way in which Amano does, EVERYTHING (filter, heating, C02, etc) is hidden away, plus the dispersion of C02 is much greater as it is being injected into the water returning to the tank.

The system I will be using involves no surface breaking at all, so C02 loss will not be an issue.

I have used and still use canisters, but they dont come close to what a 36x18x18 baffled (matrix style) sump can do in sense of filtration and ease of maintenance.

Each to there own I guess.

For the record, on my next planted tank once this is set up, it will be using a canister since the tank is only 350L "


I am also talking about tanks well in excess of 1000L. An Eheim Pro 3 will do a 1200 litre planted tank easily. An Eheim 2250 will do a 1000L litre plant tank and is an ideal filter if you want moderate flow, a 2260 will do a 1500 litre tank no problem. I use Dupla 750 and 1000 heating cables together with Dupla Tempo control system in my XL plant tanks. These provide full round heating of my gravel and water column and everything is hidden. These are more efficient than even Jaeger heaters as they run on just 200w and 250w. I also know of a 3400 litre plant tank that runs very succesfully on two Eheim 2260's. The Eheim's have more than enough biological filtration than what is needed in XL plant tanks, so I still cannot see the point in having a sump ? Not to mention all that lost CO2. Anyway, each to their own I guess.

[rainbow]

Just ignore that last bit I said about lost CO2 (if Proteus' design involves no water breaking)

[Robdog]

I guess we'll never no the rusult of this project now.
That sucks bacter balls

[Nathan]

i kno i was so excited to see how this went as i am wanting to try somethin similar, plus i always love to see other peoples tanks an there creative aqua scaping.

its a shame, but i guess if he really feels this down about it then i respect his desision!!

[Xtreme]

You will see the result, Xtreme Aquariums will keep you posted on our site of how it goes and the finished product :)

[Nathan]

You will see the result, Xtreme Aquariums will keep you posted on our site of how it goes and the finished product :)

thats awesome, let proteus kno that we're all eager to see how it turns out, an good luck with the project!!

[Mulisha]

You will see the result, Xtreme Aquariums will keep you posted on our site of how it goes and the finished product :)

thats awesome, let proteus kno that we're all eager to see how it turns out, an good luck with the project!!

Thanks xtreme for keeping us updated 8-) 8-)

[Seaview]

Hi guys just so you all Know where also setting up a few tanks for the ADA contest in 2007. Currently we have a sml 2ft in the style of Amano (will post pics)

Were also currently setting up a 430L (110cm x 56cm x 70xm) Complete ADA style as well, sustrate, co2 gear, liquid fert etc. so will keep everyone posted on that project as well.

One of our staff is also diving in and setting up a 80L complete Amano tank. Will have periodic updates on that one.

We also have a 1900L tank that is currently a planted tank. We are experementing with this one using the ADA liquid ferts as its to big to strip down and start again. currently it runs Seachem flourite and fourite red. Red Sea Root therms, overflow sump system, Pm8000 pump and co2 injection with ADA Beetle diffusers. three 150W halides, 160W T8 tubes

I hope to have some photos posted of the 1900L and will start a new topic with updates on the 420L design and setup. where still throwing ideas around our selves on the layout and look of the tank. so feel free for any suggestions.

[Mulisha]

That sounds awersome Seaview can't wait for the pics.. 8-) 8-)

[Guppygal]

Due to unfortunate circumstances this project will not be going ahead at this stage.

Proteus passes on his apologies and hopefully a new project using dfferent materials will be started in a few months time.

[Robdog]

That sucks bacter balls

I stand by my earlier statement! :cry:

[Mulisha]

That sucks bacter balls

I stand by my earlier statement! :cry:

Ditto :(

[Guppygal]

I think Proteus has done enough to financially support the aquarium industry.

With some of the stuff on the market now it seems you have to have an endless supply of cash to build an aquarium that, at the end of the day, should be about relaxation & not something to break the bank. Plus not put together to appease others with commercial interests.

Time to get back to basics – get a tank (and a mighty fine one thanks to Xtreme) fill it with water and fish and enjoy.

This project will be going ahead in the not to distant future, but products will be chosen on their effectiveness, and cost, nothing else. That way if you like what you see, it wont break the bank to replicate it, much like the previous C02 tank that was set up that is stickied in this topic area.

[fishes zd]

Hey Pro,

We look forward to ANY projects you do! You are a great contributor to this forum & we miss ya.

Look after the big guy GuppyGal! He cooks a mean sausage even tho his gas ran out.... (ADA Launch Xtreme)

Kerry
Who is still working on the right placement for her driftwood, lol!

[Guppygal]

Thanks Kerry, but since when has he run out of gas?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[fishes zd]

Lol! Maybe tap him for a few bucks!