Ph and cycling

[mr troph]

:D Hi all. I recently set up a 3ft low tech planted tank to house a small group of Discus. I bought some PH proper 6.5 to lower the PH however I discovered on the lable that it is a phosphate buffer and should not be used with live plants. The ph is somewhere between 7 & 7.5 ive read that discus can be kept in these parametres but I want them to thrive and hopefully breed. Can you suggest another buffer or additive to lower ph and hardness. The ph directly from my tap water is about 8.

Also do you recommend a live bacteria culture or bio start product be added before the fish and how long before they are added.

[vince]

mate:

Generally speaking, to start with a new tank. the bacteria establishes a lot faster in a high PH level water rather than low PH.

So, you may want to mature the tank without adding in any buffer or CO2.

I find the Sera Nitrivac does a great job in maturing the tank. Seachem Stability is another good option.

Once it comes to the planted tank, you may find the phosphat based prodect may lead to unwanted algea growth. I do not recommend you to use that kind of buffer. Instead, you can inject in some CO2, that will not only help plants grow, but also lowers the PH about 1 level.

You may want to mature your tank for at least 4-6 weeks before you add in the discus.

two reasons for that: one is discus needs really good water quality (Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, nitrates< 10)....plus they are feed on high protein food , so you need to have really matured filters.

second is, for normal community fish , you can slowly buid up your stock level, but for discus, if you do that same thing, you may find the late introduced fish can be bullied by the existing residence. better introduce them in the same time. That adds a big bio load to the tank in one time.

That is why people always say mature you tank well before you put discud in. This is extremely so in a planted discus set up1

this is just my personal opinion.

vince

[mr troph]

Thanks Vince the tank has been established for about 3 weeks and the plants are going well I was just wondering if there was a buffer that didnt contain phosphate as I wasnt planning on CO2 at this stage. What about the use of peat

[rsoares]

One other thing that helps to reduce the pH (That's what I have done) is to have lot's of wood, of course the water won't be crystal clear, will be more on the tannin side, but I reduced over three months the pH on my tank from 7,2 to 6,8. :)

[Phlipper]

Lots of wood will help to reduce PH levels as it decays, but it needs to be soaked for a long time to leech out the resins or tannins before your water will remain clear. I have used the standard PH down powder for a long time now with no badly adverse effects, in fact I use copious quantities for a pair of Betta Macrostomas that require a PH of 4.5 !!! and daily water changes in a 80 litre tank.

However.....there are a range of PH down liquids these days that claim to have no phosphates with sulphuric acid as the active ingredient, whether that is better or not ??? I just bought a bottle of a new one on the market made by Science Products that contains no phosphates, it was $9 for 150ml and a mix ratio of 2ml per 100litres of water to lower PH by 1 degree.............see picture

[k9outfit]

I use a combination of peat & "pH DOWN" for lowering water in swimming pools :oops: - buy it at any hot tub place. It's $9.95 for a 1.5 kg container (CDN$). Active ingredient is Sodium bisulphate - no phosphate.

[Phlipper]

I've often wondered about the swimming pool PH down powder, and bought some myself a while ago thinking it was the same as the aquarium material, but have been reluctant to try it because it was bi-sulphide and not bi-sulphate !!!!......are you still using it, and does it have any impact on fish or plants ?.........it's certainly a whole lot cheaper.

[k9outfit]

Mine's definitely Sodium BisulFATE (misspelled in previous post :oops: ) that I use. I've been using it since day 1 on my fish, though no plants involved. Fish are doing fine, looking great. I'm ageing water for ~4-5 days before use in 65 gallon barrels, running the water through peat, with ~ 2 TBS of the ph down added to the fresh water. Between the peat & pH down, I knock the ph down to ~ 6 (from ~7.8).

It was recommended by an aquaintence who has bred Discus, but in all honesty, I was a bit leary at first. Since using it though I really have no qualms anymore.

HTH :)

[Phlipper]

I think I am a little confused about what I bought then { wish I could find where I put the container } what I bought could very well of been sodium bisulfate, and not the sulphide....the PH down stuff you buy from the shops here is sodium biphosphate.............so I think I made a mistake in previous the post, I failed chemistry in school :lol: ..........with so many variations it's no wonder ?.....sulphates, sulphides, biphosphates :?: :?: