Questions re fishless cycling ? - UPDATE

[Dee]

Hi All,

I have been reading up about fishless cycling as I am about to do one. I'm a little confused on how much ammonia to add in the first stage :roll:

Do I add a dosage of ammonia to reach 5ppm and then daily add the same amount until I get a nitrIte spike. I assume my ammonia levels would reach way above 5ppm before my nitrIte starts to spike.

OR

Do I add the dosage to reach 5ppm and mantain 5ppm until the nitrIte spike ?

I guess the same applies to the amount of ammonia added once the nitrIte spikes.

Daily dose of ammonia equavelent to 2.5ppm OR maintain 2.5ppm ?

I hope that all makes sense :lol: :roll:

Also, can plants be added before/during the cycle process ?

Any information apreciated :wink:

Cheers,

Dee :)

[Merrilyn]

Hi Dee. I've been meaning to write a comprehensive article on Fishless Cycling for some time now, so I guess this is a good time.

First, a few basic things that need to be understood.

The bacteria colony in your bio filter is a living thing. To survive it needs two things. Oxygen and food. The bacteria colony will grow and multiply till it has consumed all the available food, and then the population will remain static. Ammonia is simply a food for the bacteria, so in other words, by adding ammonia in any form to the tank, we are simply feeding the bacteria. If we stop feeding the bacteria, they will gradually die till they are all gone.

Now to begin your fishless cycle, you need to obtain a source of bacteria. For this, you can use plants, gravel or used filter floss from an existing tank. You are simply taking a small colony, and feeding it well, so that it grows and multiplies into a large colony.

So, on day one, fill your tank with tap water BUT DO NOT ADD DECHLORINATOR. Some of the dechlorinators remove ammonia from the water, and that is the very thing that we're trying to add. Simply let the water age for a day or two, so the chlorine dissipates into the air.

Day two, set up your tank, with gravel plants, filter, heater, decorations, driftwood etc and your starter bacteria colony. At the same time, add your food, in the form of liquid ammonia. The amount you add will depend on the strength of the ammonia, but you are aiming for a reading of 5 ppm on your ammonia test kit. That's enough food to give you a good size bacteria colony, which would cope with a full fish load of around 10 adult fish.

Do daily ammonia tests, remember we are aiming for a reading of 5 ppm. As the bacteria colony begin to grow, they will consume some of the ammonia and convert it into nitrite. As you see the ammonia level drop, add a little more ammonia to bring the reading up to 5 ppm again. If you added too much, don't worry, it's just food, and the bacteria will eventually consume it.

After about a week, you should be getting a reading of nitrite as well as the ammonia. That means the colony is growing, which is just what we want. Keep feeding the bacteria, and keep your ammonia reading up to 5 ppm. Some time during the second week, you'll begin to detect a reading of nitrate as well as nitrite. This is the second step in your bio filtration. It takes time for the two different type of bacteria to grow. The first type turns ammonia into nitrite, and the second type turns nitrite into nitrate.

Our aim therefore is to have the ammonia converted into nitrite and then nitrate within a 24 hour period. How quickly this happens, will depend on the size of the bacteria colony you first introduced into the tank at the beginning of the cycle. It can take anything from 10 days to three weeks to fully complete the cycle.

You know your tank is cycled when your added ammonia has fully been converted to nitrate in 24 hours. Test your tank each morning, before you add ammonia. If you constantly see a zero ammonia reading, and a high nitrate reading, then your tank is cycled. You can keep feeding the colony with ammonia until you are ready to add your fish.

Ready to add fish ? Then do a big waterchange with de chlorinated water (around 80% change) to remove the excess nitrate, but don't add any ammonia, then add your fish all at once. No need to feed sparingly for the first month. Your tank is fully cycled, and will deal with all the waste that the fish produce.

It's a fairly simple procedure, and I've deliberately kept this explanation basic. If you're looking for all the scientific names of the bacteria involved, then a quick google will give you all the information you need.

[Ben]

Great article Merrilyn!

[Dee]

Hello Merrilyn,

Thank you very much for posting the Fishless Cycle procedure, I appreciate that :) Well today I dosed the tank to 5ppm Pure Ammonia. I will keep track of the cycle and post as I go every few days or so. I will be starting from scratch ie ... no kick starting from other seeded media, mainly because I dont have any and want to reduce the risk of disease and other nasty's, so it may take longer to fully cycle.

[Dee]

Day 1 ---

Ammonia - 5ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
PH - 7.2
KH - 50ppm (2.5dKH)
Temp - 28c

[Dee]

Day 5 ---

Ammonia - 4.5ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
PH - 7.2
KH - 50ppm (2.5dKH)
Temp - 28c

Note - Tank was slightly cloudy, but cleared to crystal clear on day 5 ... Ammonia dropped slightly.

[Dee]

Day 7 ---

Ammonia - 4ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
PH - 7.2
KH - 50ppm (2.5dKH)
Temp - 28c

Note - Ammonia starting to drop

[Dee]

Day 10 ---

Ammonia - 3.5ppm
Nitrite - 2ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
PH - 7.2
KH - 50ppm (2.5dKH)
Temp - 28c

Note - Ammonia dropping further and starting to get a NitrIte reading

[Dee]

Day 12 --- (NYE)

Ammonia - 3ppm
Nitrite - 2.5ppm
Nitrate - 7.5ppm
PH - 7.2
KH - 50ppm (2.5dKH)
Temp - 28c

Note - Ammonia drops further, NitrIte raises slightly and getting a NitrAte reading .... redosed tank to 5ppm Ammonia. PH has remained stable through out so far.

[Ben]

Thanks Dee for the updates!
Ben

[Dee]

Day 14 ---

Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 2.5ppm
Nitrate - 7.5ppm
PH - 6.5
KH - 50ppm (2.5dKH)
Temp - 28c

Note - tested 0ppm Ammonia today, so it looks like the first stage is well under way. Did note a large drop in PH today too from 7ish to 6.5ish. Raised PH back up to 7ish and redosed tank to 5ppm Ammonia.

[Ben]

Hiya Deester!

Hows the fish going since you put them in your tank!?

We need some photo's mate!

Cheers
Ben

[*Chris*]

great article merilyn were do we get the ammonia from?
i noticed the massive bottle last time i was around :lol: :lol: :lol:
cheers
chris

[nealio]

Nice thread, but I wanted to make a couple more points...

Adding chlorinated water without dechloring first can be misleading for a couple reasons.

Depending where your water supply comes from it could have chloramines instead of chlorine which does not evaporate overnight. This would kill any beneficial bacteria growth until you treated your water with a dechlor. Also adding chlorinated water to a tank with some beneficial bacteria would just kill any bacteria as soon as it touched the water. Age/dechlor your water first, then add it to the tank. Never add water that is not treated to your tank.

Every de-chlorinator that I have used doesn't "remove" the ammonia, it just de-toxifies it so it is not harmful to the fish. Your test kit should still pick up trace amounts in the water and you should still be able to grow beneficial bacteria. I have used Amqel and Prime without any problems.

I hope it helps!

[djceri_g]

Cannot get ammonia anywhere! Have found a house hold Ammonia! This isn't it, is it?

[markdynamite]

ammonia is ammonia. If it says household ammonia, just check that it is 100% ammonia and no alcohol or anything else in it.

[Professor_J]

A good post and thanks... I just put water in my tank two days ago, added some prime, and then yesterday tossed in ammonia (I get mine from the store room downstairs :mrgreen: ) and starter colony.

When doing all this, does it matter if the ammonia is a bit high, or does that just mean more food for the bugs? Mine is at about 8 ppm today.

pH / hardness are crazy right now - two of the rocks that I wanted to use seem to be falling apart in the water. I guess I'll need to find new ones that don't have quite so many soluble Ca/Mg salts in them and won't fight with pH down so much. Bugs won't care, but the fish sure will.


Cheers,

J

[Ciprian]

Hi Dee. I've been meaning to write a comprehensive article on Fishless Cycling for some time now, so I guess this is a good time.

First, a few basic things that need to be understood.

The bacteria colony in your bio filter is a living thing. To survive it needs two things. Oxygen and food. The bacteria colony will grow and multiply till it has consumed all the available food, and then the population will remain static. Ammonia is simply a food for the bacteria, so in other words, by adding ammonia in any form to the tank, we are simply feeding the bacteria. If we stop feeding the bacteria, they will gradually die till they are all gone.

Now to begin your fishless cycle, you need to obtain a source of bacteria. For this, you can use plants, gravel or used filter floss from an existing tank. You are simply taking a small colony, and feeding it well, so that it grows and multiplies into a large colony.

So, on day one, fill your tank with tap water BUT DO NOT ADD DECHLORINATOR. Some of the dechlorinators remove ammonia from the water, and that is the very thing that we're trying to add. Simply let the water age for a day or two, so the chlorine dissipates into the air.

Day two, set up your tank, with gravel plants, filter, heater, decorations, driftwood etc and your starter bacteria colony. At the same time, add your food, in the form of liquid ammonia. The amount you add will depend on the strength of the ammonia, but you are aiming for a reading of 5 ppm on your ammonia test kit. That's enough food to give you a good size bacteria colony, which would cope with a full fish load of around 10 adult fish.

Do daily ammonia tests, remember we are aiming for a reading of 5 ppm. As the bacteria colony begin to grow, they will consume some of the ammonia and convert it into nitrite. As you see the ammonia level drop, add a little more ammonia to bring the reading up to 5 ppm again. If you added too much, don't worry, it's just food, and the bacteria will eventually consume it.

After about a week, you should be getting a reading of nitrite as well as the ammonia. That means the colony is growing, which is just what we want. Keep feeding the bacteria, and keep your ammonia reading up to 5 ppm. Some time during the second week, you'll begin to detect a reading of nitrate as well as nitrite. This is the second step in your bio filtration. It takes time for the two different type of bacteria to grow. The first type turns ammonia into nitrite, and the second type turns nitrite into nitrate.

Our aim therefore is to have the ammonia converted into nitrite and then nitrate within a 24 hour period. How quickly this happens, will depend on the size of the bacteria colony you first introduced into the tank at the beginning of the cycle. It can take anything from 10 days to three weeks to fully complete the cycle.

You know your tank is cycled when your added ammonia has fully been converted to nitrate in 24 hours. Test your tank each morning, before you add ammonia. If you constantly see a zero ammonia reading, and a high nitrate reading, then your tank is cycled. You can keep feeding the colony with ammonia until you are ready to add your fish.

Ready to add fish ? Then do a big waterchange with de chlorinated water (around 80% change) to remove the excess nitrate, but don't add any ammonia, then add your fish all at once. No need to feed sparingly for the first month. Your tank is fully cycled, and will deal with all the waste that the fish produce.

It's a fairly simple procedure, and I've deliberately kept this explanation basic. If you're looking for all the scientific names of the bacteria involved, then a quick google will give you all the information you need.

[Top_Bhoy]

I intend to begin a fishless cycle using ammonia before introducing fish into the tank. I have in the past used a clear ammonia bought from hardware stores but looking about, after visits to various supermarkets and stores, all I can now see is cloudy ammonia. I'm sort of assuming now that the cloudy stuff was introduced to stop people thinking it as water and consuming it, but does anyone know if the cloudy type is a suitable alternative and doesn't add unwanted toxins into the filtration system? It doesn't list all the 'ingredients', only that it says cloudy ammonia on the bottle. If its not of use, any recommendations on a suitable alternative to clear ammonia for a fishless cycle?

[samir]

cloudy does not work

[Top_Bhoy]

cloudy does not work

Thanks for that...saves me wasting my time. Is the clear still available? .

A Mitre outlet didn't stock it and I've only seen the cloudy in the supermarket and 'cheap as chips'. I'm guessing maybe a pool maintainence supplier may do it or a specialist hardware shop.

[Merrilyn]

The problem with cloudy ammonia is that it has detergent in it, and we sure don't need that in the tank.

Clear ammonia has been harder and harder to find over the last couple of years. Seems it's an ingredient in bombs or something.

Anyway, I've been suggesting adding an uncooked prawn to the tank. As it decomposes, it provides a good source of ammonia. It's not ideal, and your ammonia readings will be all over the place, but it eventually cycles your tank and you'll have a big healthy bio colony in the end.

[Top_Bhoy]

Cheers, definitely hard to find! I've tried hardware shops and chemists to no avail. My last effort is tomorrow with a local supplier of hardware and reagents for scientific and research purposes. Will try and see if I can get it for business reasons though I can't think of any at the moment - though I am in the defence sector :lol:

If I'm unsuccessful, I'll try the prawns - any idea how long the prawn method takes? I've a 4x2x2 tank.

[Top_Bhoy]

I managed to get some clear ammonia yesterday, (2.5 litre bottle was all they had) - its potent right enough. Just one accidental sniff of the stuff as I was putting it into the tank reminded me, not that a reminder was needed, to treat it with utmost care and respect.

Roll on a mature filter!!

[vyberman]

Right stupid question i have been dying to ask for ages. But before i do i want to make it absolutly clear that i never intend to do this, nor do i recommend that anyone else tries it.

What about wee?
Its sterile when it leaves the body, comprises mostly of ammonia, and is readily available ;)

So, from a purely inquisitive point of view. Is it possible to cycle a tank by peeing into it?

[1fish2fish3fish]

good heavens!!!! Hmm, well I cant wait till I hear what the answer would be.. interesting..

[adman]

Yes pee will work, just don't use pee after you've been drinking.

Fish food will work too once it starts to break down.

Many sources of ammonia out there.

[TW]

I managed to get some clear ammonia yesterday What brand did you get? You probably no longer have the bottle, but if you do, are you able to post a pix?

[bartek]

There is no need to add ammonia as such to the tank.

If you add something like Nitrivec to the tank as per instructions the tank should cycle without using fish.

You may add a little fish flake to help with ammonia if you wish.

[ILLUSN]

If you add something like Nitrivec to the tank as per instructions the tank should cycle without using fish

bacteria need food to survive (as does any living organisum), also for it to survive the bacteria which convert nh3 to no2 need oxygen, how does a bacterial culture in a sealed bottle stay alive unless it has a food and oxygen source?

sorry for being skepitcal i just dont get how bacterial biostarters can work?

[TW]

Hi All

you can order clear ammonia in Australia from here http://www.australianhomeguide.com.au/ac.html

It's in a powder form & you make up a stock solution for daily dosing to the tank. I've used it now to cycle one of my tanks & it seemed to go well.

Hope this might help someone out. I've been looking for a source for a long time, so thought someone else might be after some too.

[dean_alicia]

how do you no how much to add?? i will be getting my 6x2x2 tank soon and dont want to overdose too much...

[TW]

By testing. When I bought mine from the site link above, it came with an instruction sheet & rough calculations of how much you need. But you really do need to do your own testing during the process.

[shell42]

I always find 1-3 king prawns from the fish shop works rather well course there is no exact measurement of the ammonia levels but they are really cheap

they do smell however, it's good if you have a husband to remove them for you at the end, but i put them in a coke bottle with holes in it for easy removal and so they will float around.

took about 3 weeks to perfectly cycle a 300L tank with 3 big prawns. I just tested every other day and waited for everything to drop to 0

[TW]

Hi Shell

Yes, i tried the prawns once, but maybe because it was summer, the smell was too strong (overpowering) and there were too many complaints from the family. Our dinner table was just around corner from the smelly tank & they couldn't stand it.

The coke bottle is a good idea. That might have made a difference. Did it contain the smell, as well as prawn mess?

I put my prawns in a bowl, but that still meant disintegrating bits of prawn could make a mess in the stinky water, especially when I remove the bowl.

Nowawdays, I use the ammonchlor clear ammonia I bought from that website, or I often have a spare cycled sponge or canister filter that I can use for the purpose.

[Wendy]

Thankyou Merrilyn for your very clear and simple instructions. I decided last Sunday to try your method on my new 5 x 2 x 2. I used Ammonia solution to get 4.0 ppm in the tank. Today is day number 7 and I have my first nitrite reading. I'ts still less than 0.25 but its a start. I can't believe how excited I am at finding nitrite in my tank.....lol :lol:

[swifto]

Have justed started a fishless cycle all levels are 0ppm even after seeding with sub straight from mature tank,lucky 4 me my wife's friend works in chemist and can order me pure ammonia.So I'll b able to order it as I need it.