Co2 injection - component reco's pls!

[fishes zd]

Hi Everyone : - )

I've just been up the lfs & looked at the JBL co2 systems. Around $335 -very small co2 bottle which they said no one in Sydney would refill it as it's so small (so why import it???) Anyway the kit had a regulator, solenoid & diffuser, etc. Much more affordable than the Dupla systems tfs!

I'm interested in buying the individual components to make my co2 setup. Would I be able to source a thread adaptor (if needed for JBL) so they will fit the aussie standard CO2 bottle?? (prob will get from weldling supplies or fire extinguisher..) I have been cautioned about german stuff not fitting Australian bottles.

Has anyone here had any experience with JBL?? Or any other affordable system in Australia?

I will NEED list:
CO2 bottle
Regulator
solenoid
Bubble counter
Diffuser
I think what happens then is I feed the outlet from the diffuser into either an airstone or
skip the diffuser and feed into my cannister filter...

My WANT list:
ph controller to make it fully auto! lol! one day the price will come down (fingers crossed!)

Any reco's or suggestion would be great. I have done quite a bit of research and am ready to go shopping!

Kerry
<_><|

[Proteus]

Hi Kerry, I am very familiar with the JBL system as well as the Sera system, and if you look in the right places, refills are no problems at all for the small 500gm C02 bottles.

Most stores that carry the full range of JBL and other German C02 equipment should be able to obtain all the bits and pieces needed.

As for your 'want list' you can get a fully computerised controlled C02 system for less than $1000, including everything you will need.

If you go to THIS THREAD (http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4257) you can see one of the systems I have set up at the moment.

[revkev]

milwaukee CO2 REGULATOR MA957 $229.32 PH controller SMS122 $ 240.24 BOC CO2 Bottle hire $8-10 a month. The regulator comes with the works solenoid valve,bubble counter,twin gauges total cost of setup
$469.56 + bottle hire
Revkev

[fishes zd]

Proteus: Thanks for the link to your tank - wow I just went thru the amazing transformation, so how is it going now?? It looks awesome! I can't wait to transform my tank.....
Thanks again!




milwaukee CO2 REGULATOR MA957 $229.32 PH controller SMS122 $ 240.24 BOC CO2 Bottle hire $8-10 a month. The regulator comes with the works solenoid valve,bubble counter,twin gauges total cost of setup
$469.56 + bottle hire
Revkev

Kev,
So that is a fully auto Milwaukee system for under AUD470? plus bottle fill/hire - WOW!

Surely something m/b missing??? (pls say NO, lol!)

Kerry : - )

<_><|

[Proteus]

Something to bear in mind, the Milwaukee system uses a mechanical solenoid, whereas most of the German built controllers utilise an electronic solenoid (safer, and longer lasting). Also, the Milwaukee doesnt have temperature compensation, which the new JBL, Sera, Dupla & AquaMedic systems have built in.

If you have a controller, a bubble counter is not needed as the C02 output is based on bar pressure.

the Milwaukee also only has a set pH range of 5.5 to 9.5, whereas others have 4.0 to 10.0.

At the end of the day, you will save some $$$ which is good, however there are other factors to consider, which need to be evaluated based on what you want, and what you want to spend.

[revkev]

The controller can keep your PH at a set level 5.5 to 9.5 you can make your own CO2 diffuser get all the stuff from bunnings
see pic of my Co2 setup the Co2 diffuser is the long white pvc tube with bioballs in it they mix the co2 into the water.CO2 controller is the green box on the back wall. if you want a bigger pic email me and I will send it to you.
Revkev

[fishes zd]

My choice is based on $$$. Husband Dave will kill me for spending too much.

Ideally an automated system is preferred (no brainer) but I'd get a 'basic' manual kit if it was going to last longer and I can add to it.

Proteus:
Can you elaborate on - "the Milwaukee doesnt have temperature compensation, which the new JBL, Sera, Dupla & AquaMedic systems have built in."
How does that work ?
Sorry to be a pain....

Kerry

[Benny]

The Sera Serramic kit can be had for $600, which includes a bottle too.. If u compare the cost with the milwaukee system + bottle purchase (either a co2 fire extinguisher, or a genuine sera bottle) the sera kit is far more appealing..


PM me if u wanan know where to get the price on a sera setup

[Proteus]

The temperature compenastion is only a new addition to various controllers. It is based on a more stringent level of control of C02 dispensation at varying temperatures, due to the different amounts of O2 in the water.

As for the Sera Seramic kit, it can be purchased generally for approx $500

[Benny]

What sera kit, are u using then Ro? Yours was the $999 one wasnt it? And i thought yours was the Seramic Kit?

[Proteus]

Seramic is only the controller.

http://www4.sera.de/site/products/product.php?id=66&language=en

[fishes zd]

Today I got a really good price for a Dupla Delta 400 system with a 750g co2 bottle - so I bit the bullet and ordered it.
http://www.petaquarium.com.au/products/product.asp?topcat=1&midcat=11&subcat=295&pid=1306

It's AUD560 on the website, but they gave it to me for $520. I am just waiting for the bottle to be sent and I should have it Fri/Sat.

So I can say good bye to daily dosing of buffers to get my dam ph down.
Which will be of course a mighty fine thing.

Kerry
<_><|

Yes I hear the masses chant "she wimped out on DIY" well this time, yes I did.... for the next time at least I will have some Co2 experience.

Thanks again everyone for your help and experience.

[Proteus]

Congrats, and welcome to the C02 addicts club

[DarrenJThomas]

Hi

I have just modified my dupla regulator to fit onto any size australian bottle. It took me a fair amount of hunting to get the right stuf (which in the end was pretty simple) I now have a D size outside my house.

If you want to know how to convert let me know.

I loooooove CO2. Now you will have to buy more ferts :)

Have Fun

[Bad Inferno]

CO2 supply
1. Go to a home brew shop and you will save 50% on your bottle hire. They obviously hire CO2 cylinders home brewers, its the same D size bottle just priced for the home market instead of the industrial market. You still sign the hire contract with BOC gasses...also refills are cheaper
or
2. If you are handy and confident with pressure fittings Go find a fire extinguisher refiller, and ask them to re-certify an old cylinder they have. Enjoy your own bottle full for ~$40.00..mine has lasted 12 months so far... although the valve did intially leak so 6 stubbies later it was fixed and refilled :).

Regulator
Tunze CO2 regulator purchased on-line. you MUST use a CO2 regulator and if you opted for option 2 above you will need to go to "swagelock" and get some fitting to adapt the extingiusher thread to the regulator.

Defuser
All I do is position a good quality airstone using silicon tube close to my canister filter intake...I can control the pH to within +-0.02 without any fancy defuser. MY pH probe is able to be inserted inline with my canister inlet tubing via the use of a tee piece.

Temp compensation
I don't really understand this for our application when the water is a constant temperature...If you find a pH ver temp curve you will find its FLAT at our temperature ranges. especially when we calibrate it using buffers at room temperature.

Get some buffers
You will need to calibrate your probe with pH buffers. Make sure you dip the probe in distilled water before you place it in the buffer solutions or you will contaminate the buffers. Distilled water and shake before each buffer and your buffers will last for 12 months. Check calibration often to start with once per week then start to lengthen the calibration until you find the amount of time you can go between calibrations. I calibrate mine every 8-10 weeks and it is out by 0.10-0.25 pH

Controller
I bought mine off ebay US$25.00 although milwalkie (spelling) seem popular...I'd look at www.automatedaquarium.com...they seem to have cheap Hanna pH controllers and probably find a solenoid their as well. Stay clear of 110VAC