Discus info needed

[tara]

I am about to set up a tropical tank about 150 ltrs. I would like to get some discus but I have been told that for a beginner it would be too challanging. Would people please give me an opinion and do you think it is better to wait untill I have more experience.

[DR.V]

I would like to get some discus but I have been told that for a beginner it would be too challanging.

This is a total nonsense! Everyone says discus are very hard to keep, but in reality they not that hard. You just have to know the right stuff for them ^^

[weird]

Hi Tara, I would recommend taking your time reading the forum.

If your new to fish keeping your starting an incredibly rewarding hobby, but like all things new, there is a learning curve and unfortunately that can mean unwell fish or even loss until you have a good understanding and apply some basics.

One important thing to understand is cycling of the tank, and taking good care of your biological filters (don't wash your sponges in tap water ... duh ... I think I made every newbie mistake).

Only after one year, I thought yep I am ready for discus, but for me atleast the learning process started over again ... and I made a whole heap of mistakes ... and I was lucky my discus survived 'me'. lol. I was lucky to come across Discus forums at that time and after a few weeks of following some excellent advice and reading heaps, I finally had striving discus.

Gee Tara, your smarter than me, your doing your research and studying up first about these magnificant fish before plowing in like a berserker. DR V is absolutely correct discus are not very hard to look after , but like all pets they they have certain requirements , and it is only knowledge of these that separate a truly wonderful experience of looking after the 'king of the aquarium'.

[sammigold]

Hi, all I can suggest is that if you have totally no experience with tropical fish you may want to start off your tank with a few fish that are maybe not quite so expensive that can also live with discus. Ie Cardinal tetras or rummy nose. Keep them for a few months and if all is going well then add some discus. That way you will have more experience in the actual fishkeeping skills (and if you lose a few as we all have been known to do, you will be able to learn the basics without losing a lot of money) . Its not that discus are hard to keep, it is just that you need to know things about general fishkeeping first before you take the step and buy these beautiful but expensive fishies. I have had tropical tanks for the last 8 years and only just bought myself some of these beauties. I allowed myself to be scared off by the "hard to keep" thing. Its more that they require "time to keep". ie. regular water changes and testing of water parameters to make sure conditions are optimum, regular feeding, regular cleaning, etc.... All I can say is Good Luck whatever you decide. :D

[tara]

Thanks for the hints, I have thought of starting with other fish that are compatible with discus then later on adding discus. I now understand about cycle's but now just have to put it into practice. How long after first seting the tank up do you recommend adding fish? Also how many (the least amount)discus should I have in a tank for them to be happy. And how many other conpanion fish should be in with them? Looking at a 150ltr tank?

[Proteus]

Tara, welcome to DF.com

to help with suggestions, what area are you in?

[weird]

A really kewl thing you can do is 'fishless cycling' which I think would be incredibly beneficial in quite a few ways (wish I did when I started but getting 'the fish' seems so overpowering)... there is quite a few posts on this in the forum and on the web.

All you need is to go to somewhere like Woolies, pick yourself up some Power Ammonia (or the equivalent), and ammonia , nitrite and nitrate testers.

[tara]

How much ammonia do you use and how long do you suggest to keep the tank fish free?

[tara]

How long after first seting the tank up do you recommend adding fish? Also how many (the least amount)discus should I have in a tank for them to be happy. And how many other conpanion fish could be in with them? Looking at a 150ltr tank?

[DR.V]

I would leave the tank for a week for it to be fully cycled.

Many people suggest that discus should be kept in groups more than 5. But in your case, 150L could only fit 4 adult discus. 1 adult discus per 40L

Dont keep discus in group of 3, because if two of the pairing up the other one might get bullied.

Wih them you can add some neon tetra, rummy nose, some bristlenose catfish to help you clean the glass.

Good luck.

[happydiscus]

more info on tank cycling: http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=895

[Del]

Hey Tara

I also have a 150lt and after 3 years of keeping community fish I decided to move on up to the "king of the aquarium".

After the loss of my first 2 discus about 2 months ago, I am getting ready to try again, putting what I have learned on this forum into practice (2 weeks to go before I get my new discus...)

One of the mistakes I made is trying to keep the tank "too clean". Hearing that discus like "fresh clean water" I went a bit overboard and cleaned everything way too much. Also turning off my canister filter for too long (apparently the bacteria starves of oxygen and dies after about a ½hr) and not being patient, didn't help.

Its been about a month now and I have kept 12 cardinals and rummynose alive, so I am feeling a little better and am trying again.

Mistakes are a part of learning, so do your research and ask heaps of questions - everyone here on the forum are really helpful and don't make you feel like an idiot - so good luck!

DEL

[Merrilyn]

Hi Tara, welcome to the forum. Nice to see someone asking the right questions beforebuying their fish :P

What we are talking about with fishless cycling is building up the bacteria colony in your filter to a size able to process the waste produced by your fish i.e. ammonia, into a non toxic form of nitrate.

Can you tell us about the type of filtration that you will be using, and if you have a friend with a fish tank, so you can get some used filter media from them, to kick start your bio cycle.

Can you also put your location in your profile, so we have an idea of the water you will be using. :P

[Shawnts106]

Youll Want to get some CLEAR AMMONIA... without anything other than just Ammonium Hydroxide... it should say Clear Ammonia or Pure Ammonia or 100% Ammonia on the bottle, shake it and if it bubbles up like soap then youll know that that is not what you need and you can use it, so just leave it there on the shelf that way you dont pollute your tank, or waste money!

hope this helps.. Im currently trying this on a Saltwater tank... but ive added a bit too much ammonia! HAHAA.. reading is like over 8ppm! :(

needs to only be 5ppm! ;)

good luck!!!!!!!!!!!

[tara]

I think when I get my tank I will try the fishless cycle, as for other tanks to use the good bacteria out of other filters i have not long set-up small tanks for my husband and son.

I was wondering is it not recomended to use under gravel filters for Discus, as I have read from some of the post that they prefer bare bottom tanks? Also is sand preferred over gravel if something is put on the bottom.

I am planning to get one of those all in one units, 150 ltrs maybe 215ltrs depending on the price. It has a canister filter (I think it is called that) the ones that hane outside the tank (biologial and something else). I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about, and yes I have read that disus dot like a strong current and the flow should be deflected.

How long does a tank take to cycle properly?
So after setting up I will probably put in a few compatible fish before introducing the discus. Can you tell me what is the ideal temp for discus and a good heater that won't fluctate due to inside temps.
If I do decide to go for the 215ltr tank approx how many other fish could I have as I need to know because I would put these in first and I wan't to have a good look around to see what other fish I want.

[tara]

I was just wondering besides the obvious ( Fish, Tank, filter, heater and the decor of the tank) what else do I need for the Discus?
[/b]

[kazkirk]

Im new to discus (but not to aquariums) and these are the extra things I like

Digital themometer with alarms. $2 off ebay! Nice and easy to read, and it goes crazy if it goes outside my set parameters.

Eheim autofeeder. $5 off ebay. That way my babies can get food all day and stay nice and fat :)

Timer for the lights.

My ebo jager heaters. Thank heaven for them! With the large surface area of my tank, the high temp, and the fact my heaters are in the sump, they are prone to getting high and dry when the water level drops. I had a heater basically melt down spewing boiling plastic into my tank then explode (no casualties), the ebo's just shut themselves off like good little heaters :) Worth every penny (which by the way, was $6 for two new in box on ebay!)

Water Python, just makes vacuuming/water changes sooo much easier.

A good, easy to use test kit for your parameters.

I think thats about it! Good Luck, Ive had my discus for 3 months now, they are growing big and strong and havent had too many troubles with them. I just keep up with the waterchanges and make sure they get plenty good food. So basically, I just did everything that everyone here told me to, and you know what, they gave me some darn good advice!

-Karen

[tara]

After reading posting on this site I have seen information on uv sterilisers, opions are about 50/50, are their any other comments? Also how often do you need water changes for Discus?
I have also seen postings about CO2 systems can anyone tell me what they are?

[weird]

Water changes ... depends on a few factors. However if you are complusive obsessive like me, then everyday ... fish love it. But if you check the polls then most don't ... either every 2nd or 3rd day.

I also am an advocate of aging water in a 100 litre water bin for 24-48 hours, with heater, airstone and prime. But again you will see mixed opinions here.

I err on the safe side, daily water changes, aging the water for 24 - 48 hours. I am probably on the conservative of the extreme side ...

[tara]

Aging water would be to get chlorines ect. out of the water? Couldn't you just boil it and leave it to cool (too time consuming on big tanks, ok for little ones)?

[weird]

Yeah thats what I read ... ? I also like getting the water as close temp wise etc to the tank conditions.

[tara]

I live in a area where the water is HEAVILY chlorinated, so bad sometimes it hurts and irritates your skin, so basically I boil water out of the tap and stick it in the fridge if I want to drink it, otherwise I use bottle water. For my little fighting fish I use cooled boiled water and a chlorine reducing drops(just in case). So going for a big tank does worries me. I will have to keep an extreemly close eye on the water.

[oscar]

Whilst i am an advocate for good tank maintenance, i also subscribe to the view that the more cotton wool you wrap around something, the less resilient it becomes.

I think it is good for the fish to be exposed to some amount of fluctuation in temp, and water quality etc during the course of existence as otherwise you are setting yourself up to have to live for the fish.

Case in point is when you go on holidays etc the fish need to be accustomed to the fact that they won't get water change everyday. Heater fails, they need to be able to deal with a temp drop without getting too upset.

This is probably a reasonably controversial opinion, and o look forward to the debate...

[Merrilyn]

Hi Oscar, welcome to the forum.

Valid point. If our fish never experience any fluctuations in water temp or quality, then the slightest change will cause them a great deal of stress. In their natural state, fish can choose to swim from one area of a lake or river to another, and in doing so, I'm sure they pass thru differences in temperature or water quality. However, you will find that given the choice, they all tend to congregate in an area of stable temperature and good quality water.

The difference is that in the wild, they have a choice. In our tanks, they have no choice. They are stuck with whatever quality of care we provide.

My theory is, that if you try to provide the best in water quality and feeding, your fish will be healthy. A slight, or even significant drop in temperature, for whatever reason, will only cause minimal stress if everything else is right.

I once left the heater off a fry tank overnight, after doing waterchanges (yep, we all do it :roll: ) The temperature dropped to 18 degrees overnight. Morning rounds revealed a cold tank with about 60 three month old juveniles, looking quite unhappy. Slowly raising the temperature to 32 degrees and holding it there for the next few days, saw no resulting stress in the juveniles. All were eating and swimming normally within a matter of hours. BUT, all the other factors were perfect. The water was a stable pH, both the tank and the water were clean, and the fry had been fed the best quality foods.

If that had happened on a tank with poor water conditions, or on fish already stressed from an improper diet, the outcome would have been very different, I'm sure.

I would never choose to subject my fish to unnecessary stresses, but if you try to maintain perfect conditions, and something out of the ordinary happens, your fish have a much better chance of survival.

JMHO

[oscar]

I knew it wouldn't take long to get a shot from someone.

Your comments are ineed valid.

I look after my fish too, and i certainly don't purposely vandalise their environment in the attempt to create 'tougher fish'.

Reason i brought it up is that it is very easy for people to get caught up in the mocro fascets of parameters, and think that if they don't have it absolutely spot on, then things will fall apart. What it does is probably overload people who aren't that committed to their fish. As a result, they get sick of it, get rid of the fish, and then start distributing bad press about "how hard discus (and other fish) are to keep".

I urge you not to misinterpret what i had written. I was trying to get my point across without writing a thesis detailing assumptions, limitation etc of where i was comming from. I just though that Forums are a place for concise notes, as opposed to acres of text.

Nonetheless, it raises good discussion.

[Merrilyn]

No shots fired Oscar, but we do encourage lively discussion :P

This forum is a place where everyone is encouraged to share their opinions, and no one will be shot down in flames. We cater for everyone here, from beginners, to others like myself who have kept and bred discus for around thirty years.

I'ts a pleasure to have you join us, and I look forward to more thought provoking comments from you :wink:

[oscar]

Have just re-read my post..."mocro fascets" should read "micro facets".

Clever.

Cheers.

[Merrilyn]

P.S. we all make typos too. LOL :wink:

[tara]

Hi all,
I got my tank it holds 200lt of water. Here are some qustions for you all to answer so that I can start getting my tank ready for Discus:
Firstly here are my readings, i have been running the tank for almost 2 weeks. I tryed to kick things along by using filters stuff out of an already cycled tank and I have put some Tetra's in.
Nitrite - 0.05
GH - 10
KH - 1
Nitrate - 5
PH - 6.5
Ammonia - Yellow
Temp - 28
If I could have the best ranges for Discus in each reading would be great.
Also I was just wondering about airation with Discus, Do they like it? and what do they like. I know they dont like a strong water current but I havn't seen anything on bubbles. Also when I got the tank it came with a couple of powerheads, whould it be a bad idear to use these ?(due to the current)