PLEASE HELP - Uaru with swollen mouth / lips

[basoikan]

Hi,

Sorry i know the fish is not discus but I'm really out of idea on this one.

I noticed the problem 2 days ago, the day before it was still fine, eating and behaving all OK. It was living with other 3 Uarus and 2 oscars in the display tank. All the other fish are fine. I have separated this guy now into a 60L tank.

I thought the sickness was due to bacterial infection so I treated the hospital tank with tetracycline and tri sulfa (all broad based antibiotics) but there has not been any improvement so far, so i doubt the medicine is doing any good. Oh i have put some salt in as well, 2 tbps / 40 L.

Any idea what could be the cause and how to treat it?

Here's the pics of the sick Uaru

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130202-00030_zps8ad130e2.jpg

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130202-00029_zps0209356f.jpg

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130202-00028_zpsda7dd776.jpg

Thanks in advance

[Topogigio82]

I think you are doing all that you can for now... Keep the water as stable as possible and with luck over time it should heal... Sometimes the more you do, the worse things get... I personally wouldn't have put a biggish fish in a 60litre tank, even if its for QT/treatment, as we all know stress can't be good for any sick fish (I could be wrong though)

[Merrilyn]

If you don't think the tetracycline is doing any good, then I'd do a big water change (100%) to remove it and just go with the salt treatment till you can see if it developes any further.

BTW, the tetracycline will have destroyed your filter, so you now effectively have an uncycled tank and you'll need to do daily water changes to keep the ammonia in check.

[basoikan]

yep i did a 90% wc today and ran activated carbon a couple hours before i treated the fish again with Huey Hung H-2 med (bacteria killer) ....

To be honest, i'm shooting rather blindly here, but i thought i better try something than just waiting .... i hope the med will work as i really dont want to lose this guy

[Merrilyn]

Is that lie a blister or a hard lump on the side of his mouth? Is it possible he's been fighting with the others in the tank, and bashed into the glass?

I'm sorry, I'm shooting blind on this one too, especially as it's come up so quickly. Bacterial problems seem to simmer slowly for a couple of days before becoming dramatic. If he was fine the day before, I can only think it's an injury. Is he eating at all?

[basoikan]

he wasn't eating the day i noticed it ... he still was though the day before

[Merrilyn]

Any improvement?

Does the lump look like a fleshy lump or a blister?

[basoikan]

I think it's a blister. So the past two days I have lowered the temp (in case its columnaris), added salt and dosed antibiotics along with tri sulfa.

It looks like the swollen part has gone down a bit but his mouth is still protruding ... and I can see that the fish is stressed now, probably from isolation, all the meds and WCs ?

There seems to be more shedding of slime coat too, is it from all the harsh chemicals and salt in the water?

I start to think that it may not be bacterial, all fins look fine, erect and no frays at all, breathing is also normal.

Should i stop with the meds and just leave him in the hospital tank with all clean water? He won't eat and I reckon it will be the case as long as the mouth is still swoleen.

I will take some pics when i get home tonight

[basoikan]

Here's the latest condition of the uaru. He doesnt look any better actually.
There's a cotton like growth at left side upper corner of his mouth

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130204-00037_zps82e4a67c.jpg

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130204-00036_zps2de5c332.jpg

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130204-00035_zpsac80b7b3.jpg

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130204-00031_zps94aaeb4c.jpg

[swifto]

Could it cotton mouth disease???

[basoikan]

from my research they are caused by the same bacteria - columnaris

the meds i have been dosing are meant to fix that ... just wondering why they have not worked at all

:( now the fish has swollen stomach too .... it looks like a no win situation for this guy

[ILLUSN]

if the fish is bloating there really isnt too much hope.

epson salts will help aleviate the bloat but the bacterial problem is the underlying cause. Tripple sulfa will work but it will take 2 weeks.
Tetracycline is said to be effective but IMO that drug is borderline useless.

Kanamycin would be my drug of choice i would use it at full strength with tri sulfa. but it is near impossible to come by.

salt is said to be effective at 0.6-0.8 g/L i would sugest building up to this dose over 24-48 hours. WARNING adding salt to the water may increase the bloat problem.

[basoikan]

I thought i didnt really have anything to lose - the mouth swelling wasn't improving and i started to notice bloat - so i took these actions:

- Dipped the fish in a bucket of concentrated potassium permanganate solution at 200mg/L for 3 minutes - done on 04 Feb and 06 Feb (i read this info on a koi forum, dip to be done every other day to allow slime coat to heal after dipping). Swelling has improved dramatically.

- Force fed the fish with a home made food mixed with metronidazole, tetracycline and grains of epsom salt. I did this on 05 Feb and 06 Feb. Fish looks stressed, but you can tell it has more energy now, and bloat has come down.

- Following this metro treatment, day 2 so far
http://www.cichlid.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6143

- Hospital tank is covered on all sides to keep it dark. This is to ensure metronidazole effectiveness as it breaks down on light exposure.

Fingers crossed it will keep improving, hopefully the stress level doesnt get the better of it

[basoikan]

WARNING adding salt to the water may increase the bloat problem.

ILLUSN, you're spot on ... i started to see the bloat after i dosed a lot of salt into the hospital tank. I have stopped it now and only use epsom salt

[basoikan]

On day 3, and the next four days, I dosed some Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone along with metro, with excellent result.

Mouth is back to normal and bloated stomach is no longer apparent.
Very happy, now just getting him back to eating again.

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130213-00052_zps2b5f610e.jpg

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130213-00049_zps3b5783f9.jpg

Cant wait to get back with his mates in the big tank :)

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/robytan/Fishies/IMG-20130213-00053_zpsc3ce6af4.jpg

[swifto]

That's great to c him recover.

[Merrilyn]

Excellent :)

[Ghoti]

love a story with a happy ending 8-)

[ILLUSN]

best thing i've read all day love your work.