Please help, pretty sure not peppering ...

[Hypnoasp]

Hi guys I am fairly new to discus. I have raised and bred Africans for over 20 years. I am not an Aquarium novice, I am a Discus Novice. I have researched and have the Discus water parameters and requirements down ( well, aside from one small thing). WOW, discus keep is pretty much opposite. I am just going to yell right here. I HATE THE FLIPPING WATER CHANGES, @&$@!! Due to the regular flooding of my front yard, I am sure my neighbors think I'm too cheap to fix my plumbing. Mark my words. I will either have a plumber install a line near the tank, add a goldfish's water requirements into the Discus DNA helix or come up with a brilliant Redneck shortcut. I have a new Red Stone that I noticed a nick on. I figured I just grazed him with a rock or forced him into the gravel when performing plant maintenance or something. It started as a dark blotch kinda like abrasive scale damage. Yesterday I noticed the blotches are multiplying and appear to be raised and rough and to my horror on the entire space between his eyes. I love this newer addition and am worried about his tank mates. I am familiar with peppering somewhat. I have a Tangerine Dream with what I understand to be the Pigeon Blood peppering. The Red Stone is a vibrant red. I'm assuming this has to due with pigeon blood lineage somewhere. However, I am really afraid this is not peppering. The first pic is my Tangerine Dream with what I understand to be peppering. The others are of the subject at hand. The situation is just not showing in the pics. I took many trying to capture it hoping someone with an iPad can zoom it and see why I am confused. Thank you guys for the help. I am going to have many questions for you. I am also confused about the variant of these two I have been told my Red Stone is an exceptional Red Universe and my Tangerine Dream is "just a Marlboro". I jumped on the web to figure it out and now suspect that any Discus can be called just about anything. (Look between tail and dorsal, high rear) Thank you!!! ~Hyp
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/hypnoasp/7C700697-115A-48DB-8B5E-07AE0299503F-1792-000002636AFB1AEE.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/hypnoasp/7245BB33-FC60-4905-9578-FAA6E6DA069B-1792-0000026396311212.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/hypnoasp/4FF2B513-B521-4D11-AE21-7B129C71EAB3-1792-000002638C0D3B66.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/hypnoasp/2FCAD4E2-F9A8-484F-BB1F-1A9DAE3D4F29-1792-0000026377B39C49.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/hypnoasp/3722E4C2-2A31-47C6-B3B5-BA3B3484F64F-1792-0000026382CB939F.jpg

[TheFish]

I'll prefix what I'm about to say with the fact I am a discus noob, never kept discus, more of an overly keen observer of them.

It looks like normal peppering. Peppering can be spotty or more cluster-like as in your picture, and can certainly occur on that part of the body. E.g.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&biw=1280&bih=576&tbm=isch&tbnid=dCd6aL9fn0kvWM:&imgrefurl=http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php%3F97989-Peppering-Question&docid=XtstaaEW-CgrjM&imgurl=http://www.ualberta.ca/~gdegreef/gallery/discus18.jpg&w=564&h=494&ei=Oyb9UMb_I82gmQXmyICIBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=2&vpy=117&dur=2815&hovh=210&hovw=240&tx=108&ty=130&sig=102778659232731098524&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=147&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:82

But its hard to tell in the pics - if the markings are red at all? this could suggest bruising or internal bleeding, and the fish would probably be clamping its fins and struggling to breath - is this occuring?

Regarding the names/variants, 'tangerine, stone, universe' - basically mean nothing, just a fancy name for fish that are ultimately of the same lineage and are named something fancy to sell faster at the shop. I'd just say you've got a pigeon, a striated turq, a blue cobalt and a yellow/white (hard to tell in pic) albino. Very few breeders are able to simply invent a new variety of fish e.g. 'red universe' successfully, and given the quality of your fish (which my next paragraph will address) it is clear that the names given, are simply fancy to encourage a purchase.

One more thing to note, (I am not sure how long you have kept the discus for?) but they all appear stunted. In particular, the cobalt blue and turq variety in the second pic. The pigeon and yellow/white are less stunted, but still stunted nonetheless. I would recommend upping the feeding to more frequently, and performing more water changes. Unfortunately the football/oval like shape on them will stay majoritively like that as once stunted, its pretty much impossible to grow discus out to their large oval size they're famous for.

[Merrilyn]

Hi Hyp, and welcome to the forum. As you are already finding, keeping discus is very different to keeping africans, so you just about need to re-learn fish keeping all over again. and I agree with you totally, water changes are a real pain :lol: but your garden plants will love all the water.

Okay, I'll address a few of your questions. Do I think your fish is peppering - yes I do. Most of the red strains come down through pigeon blood lines, so you will get peppering. Your tank seems to have some dark ornaments, and is probably much darker than the stark display tank your fish came from, so it will show more peppering. A brightly lit tank with light coloured decorations and light substrate will help to lessen peppering. It won't remove it, but it will lighten it.

A couple of your other fish are looking pretty stunted and not getting enough to eat. Have a look at the eye of the blue diamond and snakeskin in relation to the body size, and you'll see what I mean. Ideally we want to see a very small eye in relation to the body size. A large eye indicates the fish is older than it appears, but it's growth has been stunted.

It's really hard to raise juveniles in anything but a bare bottom grow out tank because they need to be fed three or four times a day with high protein food which of course necessitates very frequent (daily) water changes. In a planted tank with a substrate, it's nearly impossible to get enough food to the little guys. Discus are slow to feed, and will be inclined to stand back and let others rush into the food first. They prefer to 'graze' through the day, picking bits of food off the bottom. If the food falls down between the gravel, they won't get it, that's why you'll find a lot of discus tanks have sand as a substrate as it's easier for the fish to grab food.

I'm a bit concerned about the pH of your water. It seems you have marble chips as a substrate and they could be pushing your pH way up. Discus prefer very soft water with a pH of around 6 to 7, no higher. Can you do some tests and post the results here please.

You're right about discus names. All the little family run discus farms like to give their strain of discus a distinctive name. There are no rules or regulations regarding naming so they can call them anything they like.

Welcome to the wonderful world of discus. It's not an easy fish to keep, but it's very rewarding when it all comes together.
:wink: