newbie woes

[Priscacara]

G'day, I've posted a few times regarding the 4x2x2 I've been setting up and yesterday was finally the day to add some discus and I was really looking forward to it.

Prelude:
Tank is a 4x2x2 planted thats been established for 8 weeks using a mature filter. Tankmates are 20 roset tetra, 20 glowlight tetra, 6 corydoras sterbai, 3 siamese algae eaters (2cm and 2x 4cm), 1 6cm bristlenose.
Eheim 2028 impeller started deteriorating so replaced it with a new fluval fx5 on Wednesday using the filter media from the eheim so no loss of bacteria. Tank parameters were PH 7.2, no ammonia, nitrite, nitrates etc noticeable on tests, GH 30ppm, KH <10 ppm. PH was 7.2 to correspond to the lfs ph the fish were being kept in.

The big day:
Selected 3 nice fish at the shop, 10 to 11cm blue turq, pearl turq and leopard (their names for them). Asked to double check the ph of the tank and was told it was now 6.5 as it had been changed down from what they kept it at previously..................first problem to overcome. I added some ph down to the tank and lowered it to 6.9 over a 30 minute period, not what I wanted to do but any lower would have been dangerous to the other fish (correct me if I'm wrong please)

The fish were bagged and boxed for the 40 minute trip back home where I floated the bags then opened them to start adjusting the ph of the bags to that of my tank. The ph in the bags was 6.0! Thats a huge difference imo and sure to cause even more hassles for me. After 3 hours and a total of 25L total water added to the 3 bags the ph in the bags refused to rise significantly, the lowest at 6.4 and the highest at 6.6. Not sure if they added some sort of ph buffer to their tank to cause this, seemed very odd to me.

Got a call about a minor family emergency so had no real option but to add the fish to the tank as I had no idea how long I would be gone for. To keep them in the bags would have stressed them even more I think but as it is it may be a moot point. This morning the 2 smaller discus have come out of cover for a few minutes but the large one is staying put.

They have been stressed out way more than I had hoped even if everything had gone to plan and feel bad now. The tank ws due for a 25% water change today but I dont dare do it just in case.

Any comments or suggestions to help things along (yep you can even call me a B idiot as I feel like one) much appreciated.

[BobbyBruce]

Hi Priscacara,

Discus are somewhat timid fish and it is not unusual for them to go into hiding for the first few days while they scope out the new surroundings. If they are still upright and alert they may be okay but do keep a good eye on them.

The significant change in Ph may be a problem for you over the next couple of days so keep a watch for Ph burn.

I would go ahead with the water change as this may get them used to movement around and in the tank. When you are syphoning out the water take it slowly and try to do it in an area away from them and be prepared to shorten your water change if they are too stressed out.

Good Luck,

Bob

[Priscacara]

Thanks Bob, will go do the change. They are alert but scared so hopefully they will get used to me. I got too used to keeping rift lake cichlids I think, with them it was ok you got me in my new home, feed me so I can go terrorise :-)

[Mr Wild]

Ahh yes I see the difference! Discus to me are like cats aloof and taking everything in, when they accept you as their new dad they will be fine. They may not east for up to a week again do not stress they go on hunger strikes sometimes just to make a point - you bought me but now I have you worried!

With PH go up is fine it is when you lower it that osmotic shock can happen. Do not use any uppers or downers just making things complicated for yourself. Change 20% of the water daily with your notmal tap water PH until the tank and the tap are about the same. What fish need is STABLE PH and unless you intend to breed they will be fine from 6-8! Just keep it stable.

HTH

[Priscacara]

Thanks for the advice, I'm probably as stressed as the fish at the moment :-).

[Exotic Aquatic]

+1 Kath.

Priscacara, everything ive read so far seems normal, on the odd occasion you will get some discus who will become kings of the tank as soon as they hit the water, but on the whole they tend to hide and sometimes hunger strike for a few days. Give it time. When i first got into the hobby i had a group go 4 weeks without eating, but then they just did, and i still have 2 of the 3 of them now!

As long as the fish looked healthy when you bought them from your lfs/breeder and came from a good reputable source, theres no reason why they shouldn't stay healthy at your house. Just good old temperate tap water, and a little patience.

[Priscacara]

Bit of an update. The 3 fish are still very much alive and kicking and my initial panic seems to have been premature. Although they still wont eat yet they want to so I dont think it will be too long. They come out to check me out a lot and in the evenings stay out from behind cover. They definately didnt like the water change activity and sulked for a couple of hours but thats ok, my geophagus and gold severum I used to have did the same thing guess they just dont like you messing with their house.

Thanks again for the advice and comments, I'll post up some pics when I can.

Cheers!

[Ghoti]

You may find live food such as brine shrimp, or something like a good beefheart mix will tempt them to eat but it should only be a treat.

Cheers,
Scott

[Priscacara]

Tx Scott, will get some shrimp tomorrow and see if I can get them eating. Today they are all hiding in the middle back part of the tank, looks like a roller coaster of them getting used to things. I thought I was ready for their moods and acclimatisation but maybe not, only 5 days now but I'm dissapointed a bit on whats happened so far.

[lpiasente]

They will get used to you and you will get used to them. I give mine a pat while doing water changes now. When doing the water changes make sure the temp and ph are the same then you have less chance of upsetting them. Having said that I still have 1 after 3 years that gets upset after a water change. Live brine is always a good tempter to get them eating. Chin up they will be worth the effort :)

[Priscacara]

Its taken 6 months of saving then 2 months of getting things ready so bit of a downer just at the moment with things but I do know it will be worth it. Not been a great time for my fish projects of late, lost half a tropheus illangi colony, my threadfin rainbow and other natives tank has me with even more shy fish (but beautiful little things), filter for the to be discus tank died on me...............thats more than 3 things gone wrong so maybe I've done double my bad luck so I get double good :-).

[Ghoti]

For what its worth, a few days is nothing in the overall time you've taken to get to this point.

I can't say I pat mine, but they do give me a little nip during water changes. Probably bcause I hand feed them beefheart mix :lol:

Cheers,
Scott

[Priscacara]

As expected another problems cropped up allbeit minor this time. I'm getting a fair bit of algae floating on top of the water and unsure on a solution to it. I know its a case of lighting and nutrients for it but already cut my lighting from 12 hours to 10, wondering if I should drop it to 8. I'm changing 10% water daily now so that might help a bit, tannins in the water could be stopping some of the light getting to the plants but not by very much. The native millfoils I planted thrived for about 3 weeks and now have pretty much deteriorated away to nothing so I have 2 areas I can plant something else into. I expect its lack of lighting with the millfoil, I have 4 x 55 watt 10k compact tubes which may not be enough, the other plants are swords, crypts and echs for the most part but none are very fast growers.

As always any suggestions much appreciated.

[Wendy]

I find Ambulia grows much easier than Milfoil and is a very similar plant to look at, perhaps you could try that instead.

Cheers

[Exotic Aquatic]

8 hours is plenty IMO.

[Ghoti]

I was advised that breaking the lighting cycle could help with algae as apparently plants react more quickly to lighting changes. I run mine for 4 hours, off for 1 hour, then on again for another four.

Plants are all doing fine, including my milfoil.

Cheers,
Scott

[Priscacara]

Tx for the replies I'll give the ambulia a shot and try running the lights for 8 hours, 4 on break then 4 as suggested. You people will get me having a great looking tank with gorgeous fish if you dont shoot me first, thanks for the support.

[BigDaddyAdo]

Something else to think about is the number of Discus. 3 is not a good number in my opinion. Adding a couple more will make a huge difference.

[lpiasente]

Something else to think about is the number of Discus. 3 is not a good number in my opinion. Adding a couple more will make a huge difference.
+1

[Priscacara]

G'day, I plan on getting another 3 discus but apart from no cash just at the moment I was wanting theses ones to settle in a bit before I added any more.

Along with a new lighting regime I've put in a 9 watt UV, not really big enough I know but even a little should help a bit with the algae.

[BigDaddyAdo]

You will find that they will settle in faster if you add a few more.

The UV will only help with free floating algae and will slow the flow rate of the filter a little. Personally I wouldn't bother.

[Priscacara]

The uv isnt part of the main filter, its a stand alone unit. When my eheim started playing up I went for a fluval fx5, not even sure a uv can be fitted to those but if so it would be a pond size I would think and way outside my affordability.

I'd love to be able to add some more discus just now but I could only afford 6cm size and they would be too small for the tank, best I could do would be 1 new one next weekend but was trying not to add them 1 at a time. Mostly for agression but I doubt that would be a problem just now.

A ray of light finally last night with all 3 coming out and doing the cichlid dance and stare of come feed me. They stayed out but went to the back of the tank then came forward a bit to eat so things are looking up a bit for me :-).