My Girl is crook!

[Ghoti]

A couple of weeks back I picked up three discus to add to the family, one of which is an 8cm leopard - Bottom left in this picture:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa142/ghotipics2/DadsiPhone215.jpg

After a couple of days she took to hinding in the corner, which I didn't fuss about thinking she was beeing a sooky la la. But then she started to get darker. . . Over the last week to 10 days she has been getting darker still and doesnt seem to be eating (though she was always timid). Tonight I saw she had like a fine white spider-web on her, so I have moved her to the only spare tank I have - which is only 20 litres and was to endler guppies for a month (moved them out first!)

The white webby stuff seems to have disappeared during the move but I cant find any trace in the net or in the tank she came from. The tank she has been moved to has had the temp upped to 30C, though as I only did a WC yesterday I have not changed the water.

She came from a planted 6 foot tank that holds 9 other discus of similar size. Parameters are 28C, ph 6.5, Ammonia 0, NitRITE 0, NitRATE 10ppm, GH 3, KH 1, phosphate < 0.5. THe nitRATES were high a week or so back - around 40ppm and WC didnt stabilise it, but a canister filter clean did.

All other fish seem fine although one (bottom of picture) turned dark and lost his "blue" markings approx 2 months ago but seems fine in every other way.

Here is a photo of her now :cry:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa142/ghotipics2/016.jpg

Ideas? Treatments? I'd hate to lose her. I'll do a 75%WC in the morning and might add some epsom salt to give her a clean inside and out. Oh, and the brownish spot on her tail is actually a tiny snail on the glass.

And while we are at it, any ideas wny the other fish turned dark but otherwise eats normally, bullies other (bigger) fish and will attack my hand if its in the tank.

edit: fixed up photo link

Cheers,
Scott

[lpiasente]

She doesn't look very well Scott. She has a cloudy eye and seems to be a little pinched in the head or it could be the photo. The spider web stuff is slime coat. Have you notice any white poo clear poo jelly poo? You did the right thing putting her in a hospital tank. Is it bare bottom? I would change the water daily and keep it very very clean and an eye on her for a couple of days to see if it is worms or hex. I don't like guessing games and throwing in the wrong meds. Keep an eye on her to see what type of poop she is doing. Offer her food and remove any uneatens to make sure the water is kept clean. If it is worms you can get some kusri from Marlons discus on member classifieds ( did a great job on my fishies recently) if it's hex you will need to get metro from the vet.
cheers

[ILLUSN]

THe nitRATES were high a week or so back - around 40ppm and WC didnt stabilise it, but a canister filter clean did.



glad you did this, a dirty canister will remove any effect of a water change.
to me it looks like hex but if the webby stuff is disapearing on its own and you have her in a hospital tank try a PP treatment first. add salt at 1 tsp/20L to help her rebuild the slimecoat.

if after 2 days she still looks bad start metro treatment.

[Ghoti]

Thanks folks. I take it pp is potassium permanganate which I have. Will get onto it now.

Cheers,
Scott

[lpiasente]

Why the pp treatment?

[ILLUSN]

could be an irritant effecting the skin, or an infecton of the skin under the slime coat (caused by stress from the nitrate spike).

PP will remove the slime and allow the salt to kill the infection/emove the irritant, if it persists then metro.

Suggesting the PP because I'm not 100% sure if its hex yet oir not, if it were hex I'd expect more fish to be sick.

[Ghoti]

could be an irritant effecting the skin, or an infecton of the skin under the slime coat (caused by stress from the nitrate spike).

This is a distint possibility as I have another fish that has been dark for quite some time with a slight milky appearance. I have put him through the pp treatment as well and is now inhospital with "Dot".

Perhaps this will be a blessing in disguise.

Cheers,
Scott

[lpiasente]

could be an irritant effecting the skin, or an infecton of the skin under the slime coat (caused by stress from the nitrate spike).

PP will remove the slime and allow the salt to kill the infection/emove the irritant, if it persists then metro.

Suggesting the PP because I'm not 100% sure if its hex yet oir not, if it were hex I'd expect more fish to be sick.

I was wondering what the pp treatment was to do with the hex. Now I know

[Ghoti]

Well today she seems to be better - or perhaps a wishful thinking on my part?

She is still not eating - have offered flake, tetrabits, beefheart and frozen bloodworm with no take. Have put on a brine shrimp brew and will offer that once they hatch.

She is now very active making it hard to get a shot - at least in the corners she takes a little while to turn around! Before treatment she just lurked and only moved when prompted.

Here she is now:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa142/ghotipics2/004.jpg

She is VERY skinny which is a worry, but I guess she has been one to lurk behind the DW from day one and it wasn't until she got dark you could see anything was wrong.

A couple of questions on the treatment:
1) I am doing daily 50% WC - is that enough?
2) Should I be topping up the epsom salt at each change? (I haven't been)
3) Should I still add Seachem Replenish to the WC water? (I haven't been - usually do as I use rainwater).

Cheers,
Scott

[ILLUSN]

50% should be fine so long as your nitrates stay on or below the lowest dectable limits of your test kits.

let the water changes dilute out the epson salts it wont do any good to leave them in too long at effective concentrations

you can add replenish but id add it at a half dose the lower TDS might help with her recovory

[Hollowman]

Newly hatched brine shrimp will be way too small to feed the fish.

[Ghoti]

Newly hatched brine shrimp will be way too small to feed the fish.

Fair call - off to the LFS to grab some Brine Shrimp. Even if she knocks them back I'm sure her friends in the display tank will be happy to see them.


the lower TDS might help with her recovory
Sorry - what is TDS?

And one more question... Once she starts eating again how long should I wait until I re-introduce her to the main tank?

Cheers,
Scott

[ILLUSN]

TDS is Total Disolved Solids, basicly its an indication of the ammount of material suspended in the water (ions, carbonate salts etc) lower levels can be benificial in healing in reguards to they will support less bioload in the water (remember aquarium water is a microbial soup compared to air)

once she starts eating monitor her for 2 weeks atleast if she looks happy and starts puttin on weight she can proably go back in.

[Ghoti]

Many thanks.

[Ghoti]

Well, she;s still not eating. Won't take beefheart, bloodworm, flake, tetrabits, brine shrimp. Very skinny now, hardly swimming at all and swimming head down. No other visible symptons. Haven't seen her poo, but not surprised given I haven't seen her eat either.

Will take her to the LFS tomorrow to see what he thinks, but I'm guessing its euthanasia time.

Beginning to wonder of its cruel to even try to save them though to date she's only the second discus I've tried to save (and the first one didn'take it either).

Very downhearted and wonder what I'm doing wrong as she will be the fourth to go since July (one sock one earlier, two seemingly dropping dead) but other than 4 Kuhli loaches lost in a single hit I have yet to loose a rummy nose or cardinal or harlequin :cry:

Cheers,
Scott

[Ghoti]

Looks like she thought it was time too, passing away during the night.

So now do I get paranoid every time a fish doesn't spring to feed? I have a Pidgeon that has always been a fussy feeder - is there somewhere I can get him checked out before he stops feeding?

Not a good day today :cry:

Cheers,
Scott

[mitsui]

So sorry to hear about your girl Scotty :(.

I'm going though a similar thing it's heart breaking