Dark & Hiding discus!

[Ghoti]

Chap posted this on another forum earlier today. HE doesn't seem to be able to register here, and one of his fish have died during the day. Hope you dont mind me posting this on his behalf - he certainly needs urgent GOOD advice!!


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started
I have 3x Blue turq and 3x Red turqs
All of which are hiding, and dont show much colour at all. Most of them are very dark and have stress lines on them.

2. Symptoms
Dark
Not eating
Clamped fins (at times)
Clear poop
Hiding
Dark eyes

3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.
I put some melafix and pimafix in, but it kill nearly all of my pencilfish, so i immediately did a 50% water change
I also de-wormed them the same day... So i doubt that took any effect.

4. Tank/Water
200L (50gal), Its about 6 months old. 6x discus would be around 3 inches each.
5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?
30% once a week
10% every 3 or so days
soil is seachem flourite black sand

6. Parameters and water source;
- temp 26.5 atm (i think my heater is dying, i need a new one)
- ph 7.9 (whatever i do, i cant get it down. i am running pressurized co2)
- ammonia reading 0
- nitrite reading 0
- nitrate reading 0
- Gh 10
- Kh 4

7. Any new fish/plants added recently
10x cardinal tetras
4x rummy nose tetras

6 of the cardinals died and 2 of the rummy died literally 3 days after putting them in the tank, I have no idea why they did.


http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9384/dsc00398dw.jpg


I did a water change, turned off the co2, cranked up a air pump and added some seachem discus buffer and cleaned out the filter

Tests are done using an API test kit
ammo: 0
nitrate: 0-5
nitrite: o
ph: 7.2
gh: 10 (179)
kh: 4 (71.6)


Other tank fish include: rummy nose tetra, cardinal tetra, pepper cory, siamese flying fox and ottos.


The filter has been well established. Before i used it in the tank, it was cycling in a tank that had been running for about a year.


I stole the heater from my other tank and have it in there now, slowly raising the temp to 30. I will buy one tomorrow in my break.

How do i treat "hex" and this "wasting away disease?"
I have been googling and cant really find a clear definition of what hex is and how to treat it.

I use tap water (i think it comes from Candowie Reservoir). I am in the westernport area.


hes dead.
i dont know what to do, this is killing me, i feel like im torturing them, and i am doing everything i can to help them.

There are still 5 sick Discus and I believe he dpon't have a QT tank.

What should he do next?

Thanks,
Scott

[/quote]

[Merrilyn]

Scott, it sounds like the new cardinals and rummynose tetras he added to the tank have inadvertently brought in a disease with them. (That's why we always recommend quarantine before adding any new fish to a tank).

Okay, now for the treatment. It sounds to me like Hexemita which is also known by several other names. For a fish that has gone dark, not eating, hiding, and passing clear or white jelly like droppings, the name doesn't matter. It's the treatment that's important. He's going to need to pay a visit to his vet, because the recommended medication is prescription only.

Tell him to follow the instructions on this link exactly

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17130

A cure is certainly possible. Ask him to do another 50% waterchange, then begin the medication after the waterchange. Oh and BTW Melafix doesn't seem to do anything for discus. We think it's something to do with their unique slime coat.

Feel free to PM me if you have problems.

[ncassells]

Thank you for your help Ghoti

I got dad to register an account on here for me using his email.

Being a prescription only med might be the reason why i cant find it on any online aquarium stores

Setting up a qt tank is not an option for me.
Will it be okay to treat the fish in the current tank?


My dad is a vet, so I dont think I will have too much trouble being able to get some of these meds you speak of




Regards,
Nathaniel

[Merrilyn]

Hi Nathaniel, glad you managed to register. Your dad, being a vet will be familiar with metro (also known as Flagyl). It's a well known antibiotic. Tell Dad that I have had the treatment checked and confirmed by several fish vets, and it's the latest information we have.

It's important to keep the tank dark, and no warmer than 30 degrees.

And yes, treating in the main tank will be fine if you don't have a quarantine tank. Calculate the capacity of your tank MINUS the head room, gravel and any rocks or decorations. A 200lt tank can end up actually holding round 180lts when you make allowances for displaced water.

Good luck mate.

[ncassells]

could chlorine in the water be a factor too? in our area (westernport), they tend to chlorinate the water a bit more than other places

[Merrilyn]

Chlorine will cause a burning of the gills but the first signs are usually the fish gasping at the surface.

What are you using to remove chlorine from your tank when you refill. You should be using something like Prime which will remove chlorine and chloramine from tap water.

[ncassells]

its one from a lfs... no brand. it removes them both, and binds heavy metals......

[Merrilyn]

Yep, that'll do. Prime is probably the best of them, but so long as you're using something, it's fine.

[Ghoti]

Good to see you made it accross Nathaniel. Fingers crossed you can save your remaining fish.

And thanks for your prompt replies Merrilyn.

[ncassells]

Okay, so I followed the treatment.
I put the fish in a QT tank and did exactly what you said.

Now the fish have been returned to the main tank.
For the first day or so they seemed to be fine, eating, nice colour and swimming in the open.
Now for the past day or two they have all been hiding, dark again, one appears to be breathing heavily, and there also appears to be a clear stringy goop coming off of their fins.
The stringy thing could have something to do with their slime coat yeah??
Would Melafix be beneficial in this case?

Temp: 29
Ph: 6.8-7
Kh: 4
Gh: 9
Amminia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrates: 5
(Tests done using API Fresh Water Test Kit)

[Merrilyn]

Sounds a bit like a pH shock. Did you check the pH of both tanks before you did the transfer?

Fish seem to cope fairly well with a rise in pH but a lot of them are sensitive going from a higher pH into a lower pH. Even a few points difference can upset them.

I'd do a waterchange, and add some rock salt or cooking salt to the tank (not table salt, it has fillers in it to make it pour easily). Dose is 1 teaspoon per 40 litres of water today, and tomorrow you can add another teaspoon per 40 litres, making it a total of 2 teaspoons per 40 litres. Hope that makes sense :P

Just leave the salt in the water, and each time you do a normal waterchange it will gradually reduce the concentration of salt.

Good luck, and please keep us informed.

[ncassells]

So ahh.... I put maybe 1tsp of rock salt in the tank...
And now maybe an hour or so later ALL 4 of the fish are swimming out in the open with each other... :shock:
But they do have the "stress bars" on display...
Also, they seem to scratch/rub on leaves & driftwood.

Hopefully this lasts more than the 40 minutes I have been watching them :D :shock:

[Merrilyn]

Excellent. Glad to hear they're all out and swimming. I'm not concerned about the stress bars. Juveniles often show them.

Add another teaspoon of rock salt per 40 litres today and give it a day or two before you do a normal water change.

The salt will increase the growth of slime coat and help the fish to shed anything on their body that might be bothering them, including the old damaged slime coat from the pH burn.

Rubbing, or flashing against objects in the tank is just helping them shed the old slime coat.

Let's give these babies a couple of weeks in the tank to recover from their recent illness, and then we'll review the need to treat for gill flukes and intestinal worms. For now, just enjoy them, feed them well and keep the water pristine. :P

[lpiasente]

Hey Nathaniel. I live in Wonthaggi. We are very limited to what meds we can get here as none of the stores stock them, they think melafix and pimafix will fix everything. I have a full cupboard of meds so if you are ever stuck and need anything in a hurry give me a hoy and I would be happy to help out. Is your dad with the Wonthaggi/Newhaven vet clinic? I live there at the moment with my old dog ( not really just seems like it). I know you are on a different water supply than us but at times our ph can go up to 8.5 so it probably would pay to check the ph of the tap water before you do your water changes just incase. Cheers
Leanne

[ncassells]

That would be awesome Leanne!
Nah, my dad is the vet in cowes. David Cassels.

Dogs can be very expensive at times huh!

Thanks heaps for your help guys