Not too sure

[Decapper]

I have a discus that I have thrown just about every med I can think of at it... Its been sick for a while..

It only started with white faces about a week ago and I have been treating it with praziquantel. It seems to be eating again but only live black worms which I soaked in the med. above for hr.

I was wondering as it seems to be flexing its gills alot if it also had gill fluke. I have supplied a video to show

Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjZkkShGJZ8

[lpiasente]

That fish has been sick for a long long time and it is time to put it to sleep. See how skinny it is and it eyes are bulging there is nothing left to do and it is suffering. I know it sounds awful but it really is the humane thing to do. so sorry :(

[Decapper]

Sorry bro can't give in just yet.. If he stops eating again I will do what has to be done

[Hollowman]

I tried to watch the video but it wont play for me. You tube says no views also. If Leanne has told you to humanely kill it, then I absolutely trust her judgement. It is not something she would say if she did not mean it.

From what you say, alarm bells are ringing. Fish just dont get skinny overnight, you should have seen this coming weeks/months ago. If you have thrown every med at it over the last week :shock: then no wonder it dont want to eat! If it is skinny, bulging eyes, then imo it is too late. You say you dont want to give up on it, but you will just be wasting your time and money. When they get that bad, 99% of the time they will be better off culled. Go buy some Clove Oil from you chemist and do a search here on how to use it, or ask. You are just making it suffer more if you dont do the right thing.

Maybe post some photos so we can all see.

[lpiasente]

The video works for me not sure why it isn't working for you Steve. I honestly must say I have never seen a discus that skinny before.

[Merrilyn]

Welcome to the forum Decapper. I'm sorry your first post has to be about such a sad subject.

I have seen the video, and although it's not easy to see the true condition of the fish, because its facing the back of the tank, the bulging eyes are very visible (which is a big worry) as is the very thin body. You've obviously been trying very hard to save this little fish. How long has he been ill, and what were the first signs you noticed.

You say you have tried lots of meds, what were they and has the fish been eating all along, or only since the prazi?

I'm not quite ready to say it's time to put your fish down, especially as he's now eating, but you do have a very sick little fish. If he stops eating, then I think you need to prepare yourself to take the final step.

[Decapper]

Thanks Merrilyn for the support.

He first stopped eating about 3 weeks ago... I had 2 peppermints die from Columnaris as I had a small nitrite spike. It took 2weeks for the peppermints to die from the spike at which time the discus stopped eating.. I have done a lot of reading and I believed at the time he might of had internal Columnaris so I gave him antibiotic which had no effect.. Then I tried a week later umm the blue one can't remember name. He started eating but it did not last for long maybe a day. It wasn't till about a week ago he started to have white poos so thats when I put him on praziquantel.

I have also increased the temp since I now believe its not Columnaris as that is suppose to spread faster with heat.

I'm a bit worried about my other discus now.. 2 eat dry food but one will only eat frozen blood worms so I can't give him praziquantel through soaking tetra bits. Anyway that is another story ;)

[boxters]

This is a good example of just throwing meeds in a tank and hoping it works. All this does is kill fish. So many do it and wander why their fish die, instead of finding out what's wrong and treating with the right meeds. Praziquantel is for tapeworm, which this fish does not have. If you had treated it with metro, you would have saved it.

[Merrilyn]

I agree boxters, throwing meds into a tank is not the solution, but I can also understand a desperate owner willing to try just about anything to save their fish. I'm sure we've all done something similar in the early days of our fishkeeping career. I know I have.

Those of us who have been keeping fish for many years, (for me it more than thirty years now) and learned by our early mistakes, need to share our knowledge with newcomers to the discus world, so together we can save the lives of as many discus as possible. Education is the key. :wink:

Decapper, I'm going to suggest something that you may find a little radical - I want you to stop all medications, raise the temp to 31 c and do huge waterchanges every day for the next week, and offer nourishing foods several times a day.

Let's look at what this fish has been through in the last three weeks - first a nitrite spike which is highly toxic, then a course of antibiotics, followed by (I assume) a dose of methylene blue, and finally worming medication. That's a lot for a little fish to go through. What he needs now is warmth, pristine water, good food and time for his body to recover. I still think your chances of pulling him through are only about 50/50 but it's worth a try.

Would you like to share what's happening with your other discus. Are they all in the same tank?

[BigDaddyAdo]

I agree with Merrilyn. Don't give up yet, lots of clean water and feed him whatever he will eat. Just be prepared that you may have to end his suffering in the near future.

[Decapper]

I have done alot of reading to try and save this little guy. And spent alot of money.

I have not the experience of some here and of course maybe I came here a little late.

I have read that you need to worm your fish every 2months but there is so many different views on the internet as I'm sure you all know.

I will do a 50% water change twice a day if that is what it take.. I also use prime for water ager.



My other tank I do have a discus I noticed today that has stopped eating..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvD-HJ7BwDE

You have seen the first one - front view.


The red melon (second one) has stopped eating now.

Blue tuq looks stressed.. In fact they all look a little stressed and scared.

Can't get the fourth one on film. the blue tuq and white diamond do eat but not like they use too.

4ft tank. ph 7.2 roughly - I have peat in the filter but hard to lower with all the water changes I have been doing lately.. at least 30% everyday but 50% yesterday. And also all my plants are fake which does not heap the ph as I'm over real plants (use to grow them for sale before)

Ammonia (0) and nitrite (0) and of course nitrate are all fine.

[Mickey C]

How are you ageing (and heating) the water at the moment for your changes? As in, for 12 hours in a 90 litre drum, etc. In the back of my mind I ponder if there's a little temperature shock which is turning them off eating a little.

[Decapper]

Serious I just turn both taps on.. I know that for the last bit I leave the hot water on for 2sec or so.. I do that many water changes I know how to get pretty close with out testing it.. I have a digital thermometer that moves like .3 down at the most... I add prime seachem when I fill the bucket up..

Thats it.

Update on skinny- seems to be eating the worms with a bit more energy.. Fingers crossed!

[Mickey C]

Sorry if I sounded rude there matey, just wanted to make sure the temperature wasn't going from 30 degrees down to 25 during the change, then back up to 30 before you then do another change.

That said, how long do you let the bucket(s) sit before adding it to the tank? The quickest I've seen an ammonia test return 0 with conditioner is 10 minutes, the longest is a bit over 30. So I usually let mine sit for 30 if I'm doing an emergency change.

Sounds great that the little guy is starting to eat though - he's the number 1 concern :)

As a side note, and this is just my personal opinion/thoughts - I don't trust water from the hot water tap. This is because I've seen many hot water systems removed, and the amount of rust and garbage that comes out of them it horrendous! In emergencies I have a dedicated 6L stainless steel pot (ie, never used for cooking) that I heat up water on the stove. That just my personal opinion though, please use at your own discretion :)

*crosses pinkies for you*

[Decapper]

No problem m8.. Did not take it the wrong way..

How long do I leave the bucket.. About the time it takes to walk from the tap to the tank.. I have no means to store 120L for 30mins..

Thanks everyone for your help - great forum

I'll keep the water changes happening and leave it at that for now..

Red melon still not eating - I think its stress so I'll let him go for another 2days before any real concern.

[Decapper]

Just a quick update - dont mean to flood..

I'm a bit excited if you can't tell ;)

He is a different fish from yesterday. Do you think that he might have had worms as he seems to have responded to the med.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L969JCekZSM

[Merrilyn]

That's much better. I'm so pleased for you :D

He's still not out of the woods, but he's not knocking on death's door either. Keep up with those waterchanges, and if live worms is all he'll eat, then so be it. Live worms it is. We'll worry about getting him on other foods at a later date.

As far as the other fish go, no meds at this stage, let's start treating them to some daily water changes and an increase in water temp too. This should always be your first line of treatment whenever your fish go off their food, or start looking ill.

Down the track we'll treat them with Levamisole to remove any round worms, but not till they're back to full health. If a fish has a belly full of worms, it's usually round worm or thread worm, which is treated with Levamisole, rather than tapeworm which is treated with prazi.

Remember that worm treatments are a low dose of poison (has to be to kill the worms) hopefully low enough to kill the worms without killing the fish! Never, ever administer to a sick fish.

Just a word of caution with live worms, make sure they're really fresh. Keep them in the fridge and change the water daily. If they start to stink - toss them.

[Old Dave]

[quote="Decapper"]
How long do I leave the bucket.. About the time it takes to walk from the tap to the tank.. I have no means to store 120L for 30mins..
I'll keep the water changes happening and leave it at that for now../quote]

Might I comment on a change to your water ageing..
Put some hot water from the tap in a cup and let it cool.
Now, try to drink it. Compare it to cold water out of the tap.
If you can taste the difference, your fish will notice it bigtime.

Those 100l plastic storage containers are good for water ageing containers.
Can you leave mixed cold water & ager as long as possible & then put some in a food safe plastic container and heat it up in the microwave?
Mix to temp, & serve. Not shaken, just stirred..... 8-)

hth,

Old Dave

[Decapper]

I culture my own live worms for them now.. I have only started and I'm having great sucess with them. Also cherry shrimp which I need to increase numbers before I start feeding them to the discus..

I've also notice alot of shaking fins and scratching up against objects in the tank with the other discus..

The one in the qt tank is also flicking and shaking but not scratching.

Anyway I'll just stick with the water changes for now

[Mickey C]

Have you turned up the heat for them to 31-32 degrees?

Sorry for multi-posting, I'm only learning but things I'm hearing sound familiar :)

[Decapper]

Yep.. already done that thanks for the suggestion.

Even with the scratching the red melon seems to be going for the food then stops. So I suppose things are getting better