Crossing strains

[BigDaddyAdo]

If you were going to cross a red turk with another strain what would it be?

[Hollowman]

another Red Turq

[BigDaddyAdo]

LOL I saw that one coming from a mile away..... ;)

[OwNz2009]

what is wrong with crossing strains ?
i have 2 strains at the moment and i didnt know it was a problem alot of people cross strains so whats the problem over it ?

[Hollowman]

The major problem that happens is that what you get will be a lot of crossed rubbish fish, that a niether one thing or another.

Then, what happens is that these are then sold/passed on to your LFS, who will ask stupid money for them, sell them to people who do not know any better and so the circle goes on.

The best way to breed fish is to breed true (imo) unless you have the facility to experiment over a long period of time and have the sence to cull the fish that do not make the grade.
Get 2 similar fish (strain wise) and have fun, you will see the best of both parents come out in the offspring. You should cull heavily to only allow the VERY BEST to then strengthen the gene pool, period.

So many times we see new people post up their new fish that are now spawning. More often than not it is a PB and a blue based fish. If people did a bit of research before letting these fish cross, they would know that the offspring will be heavily peppered fish, and very undesireable. Again, these are then offloaded to your lfs, and the circle continues.

Research and breed true.

Ok, off the soap box

Steve

[OwNz2009]

make sense in some ways but other ways isnt that how new strains are made ?
wasnt they all wild discus at one time and threw breeding thatshow these new strains was generated ?
like angelfish ALOT of people cross strains for new strains of angelfish dont we have the same here for discus breeding.

breeding is fun imo its good to give somthing a chance in life imo

[Hollowman]

make sense in some ways but other ways isnt that how new strains are made ?
wasnt they all wild discus at one time and threw breeding thatshow these new strains was generated ?
like angelfish ALOT of people cross strains for new strains of angelfish dont we have the same here for discus breeding.

breeding is fun imo its good to give somthing a chance in life imo

Absolutely, I agree.

BUT......... a breeding programe can take years, then to get a 'new' strain to breed true................not easy. Plus, you have to have in mind that will people want your new creation? has it been done before but called a different name? there are hundreds of names for the same thing.
What I do not like is the cavalier way that people flood the market with rubbish fish. Generally, they will be stunted, deformed or heavily peppered, the sort of thing you see for £100 in your lfs. People think there is a swift buck to be made out of getting rid of fish they have home bred........I do not know many who can do this, and I know a fair few people.
Breeding true lines works for me, I hope to create a new strain one day, but time is always against me. I will never cross PB and blue for example.

Instead of breding a new line, maybe think on refining and old strian. Selective breeding is the key...as well as being able to cull properly.

Steve

[OwNz2009]

couldnt agree with you more i have a redrose breed with a leapord is this a bad match ?

[Hollowman]

Well, they are both blue based fish. I guess it all depends what comes from them. I think you will get quite a mix of different types. You will get some SS's some 9 bar, and various colours in-between.

What I must stress is that from say, 100 fry, you might get 5 or 6 fish worthy of raising to adulthood. A very small percentage would be keepers or ones to work with. I will cull heavily, but humanely to get only near perfect fish. I think this must always be kept in mind.
In one of Andrew's books he sets out his strategy for raising and culling fry, well worth the read.

Steve :)

[Mr Wild]

THANK YOU STEVE!!!!!!

How enlightening it was to open this thread and hear someone speak the truth about discus breeding. A breath of fresh air!

Thank you once again. If you can't stomach the cull - do not breed...anything!

[OwNz2009]

i can do the culling i jsut want to get more know how on the breeding strains thats all i had to cull alot of angelfish as some was deformed fish what you get with some angels fish ie gill plates partly missing of bottom fins if you want show angelfish you have to cull and alot of them too horrible to do but imo thats the life cycle.

[ILLUSN]

If you wanted to cross strains try and stick to closly related strains, ie for your red turk, consider another red turk, a blue turk, a red snake. Next best choice would be a rose red or a brown.

you'd want to avoid any of the solid blues so I'd personally stay away from cobalts and blue diamonds or even the super blue brilliant blue turks.

Best of all if your serious about breeding would be throw a domestic red turk over a wild to help strengthen your stock best choices whould be a wild brown with exceptional strong blue markings or royal blue. A wild green would be the worst choice as it has spots and not sirations and often lack body colour over the belly region. IMO heckles cross red turks also look funny.

[Hollowman]

Jothy,
I forgot to say that about strengthening the gene pool, thanks my friend :wink:

It all takes time, that is the trouble, and in our fast lives we all want a quick return. We as discus people should try to learn restriant and patience (sometimes)

Mr Wild, thank you for your kind words, this is my opinion only, but I just hope it registers with others so they understand not to breed just for the crack of it or for gain.

Steve :)

[swampy1972]

Hollowman's right. I'm no expert, but from the reading I've done in an attempt to educate myself on this very subject it seems to me that creating a new strain is a very clinical process.
As Steve mentioned, you have to be prepared to cull entirbaches if appropriate. You need to research your desired outcome and choose the parents carefully. Only those that exhibit the desired outcome remain, the rest become 'fertiliser'.
I think the process parallels rose plant breeders. They cross specific plants and destroy hundreds in their pursuit of the 'perfect rose'.
IMO, the hardest part is removing the emotion from it. No-one wants to think their juvies aren't perfect.
Thanks to Hollowman. Sometimes your opinion may seem harsh to us newbies, but it always fair and well educated.