Marlboros not moving

[Benzo]

I have a 55 gallon with three snakeskins and two marlboros plus a handful of other peaceful fish. For the last few days the marlboros have been not eating, not moving, hiding, and generally leaning or resting on a plant or bogwood. I tested and everything is fine (PH around 6.5 but thats normal. They look fine and the snakeskins are all fine. I did a water change and tossed in some amquel + and some pimafix but it seemed like a waste. WTF!? :?

[rwel4809]

It sounds like you might be a little overstocked...

We need more information about your set up... do you have a heavily planted tank? what is the filtration, light levels etc. and particularly

what is the nitrate reading?

how much/often do you do water changes?

what do you feed?

I'm a huge fan of water changes, but not so keen on tossing chemicals in without diagnosis...

you mention you have plants... have you been using flourish excel recently?

HTH R.

[samir]

what about your ammonia levels ?

[Benzo]

tank and setup is 2 months old
large can filter
140 watts of light (half color enhancing, half veg)
10 small or medium plants the largest ones being amazon swords
10 gallon change every 2 weeks
PH 6.5-6.8 Water temp is 82/27 degrees
Nitrate is around 30 i think (im sorta colorblind so i suck at reading tests)
Nitrite at .5
i feed flakes in the afternoon and frozen discus formula or beefheart in the evening. i figure the flake food eases the hunger of the tetras and other small fish so they dont eat so much of the expensive food.
i havent been using flourish or anything else for the plants but i do use a very small amount (1/4 what they recommend) of 6.5 buffer crystals for the discus. im not sure about the ammonia but the filter is good and the nitrites seem good so i dont know if thats it. ill buy a test kit tomorrow though. What do you think? I should do another water change tomorrow right?

[ILLUSN]

the fatc that you have 0.5 nitrite is VERY bad, add 1tsp of salt per 40L to help slow brown blood disease, start doing big changes and keep them up daily for atleast the next month

[rwel4809]

Your tank has not cycled.

the problem is the nitrite and nitrate.

nitrite must be 0 - it is extremly toxic.

discus also require very low nitrate levels - we try to keep the nitrate level below 10ppm.

most of us would change at least 50% of the water per week in a discus tank.

you need to perform water changes every day, or even twice a day until you have solved your problem.

It is much better to treat, age and heat the water for a water change before putting it into the tank. I would consider getting a large plastic barrel or similar and a spare heater to prepare your water.

you will have to up you water change regime if you want to keep discus.

Keep us posted.

HTH R.

[Hollowman]

A classic case of an uncycled tank. Just a recipe for disaster. Big daily water changes are now needed, you cannot compromise on this. You need to have a re-think on your maintenance regime, or take a look at other options.


H

[Benzo]

okay so i always use luke warm water when i change but this time i stuck an air stone in the buckets for about 10 minutes before pouring it in. is that what you meant by aging rwel4809? ill do another change tonight.

i forgot to tell you that although my setup is 2 months old, the can filter came from a friends cichlid tank so i think there must have been some bacteria left over... although it was dry for about a month.

so i need more bacteria? should i buy some from the store? i tested nitrite and nitrate today and they both look like they are at 0 but its really hard for me to tell. does anyone no of any testers that are not color-based (maybe something digital.) i looked on google and all i can find are digital ph and ppm readers from horticultural/gardening sites.

many thanks to all for your help. this site rocks!

[Hollowman]

You need to age water for 24 hours, you need NEW liquid test kits for Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte and Ph.
The 'old' filter media is dead, there is no substitute for time to mature a filter, impatience will kill. There are products that say they help to seed a new filter, but they are not a quick fix.

[rwel4809]

The liquid tests are all colour based, so if you are colourblind you will have to get someone to help you.

Bacteria need food and moisture to live, so when the canister was left dry they would all have died.

Aging the water (leaving it with an airstone and a heater for 24 hours) makes sure that at lot of the chemicals put into our tap water will evaporate, it also allows the water to stabilise making it less prone to swings in ph. you will also need to add the dechlorinater (seachem prime is the best) at the begining of the aging process. you may not need to buffer the ph down. A stable ph is more important than a low ph (unless you are breeding or keeping wild species.)

Discus are not too difficult to keep as long as you are well prepared. They are a little more fussy than some other fish, so you need to invest in the proper equipment.

IMO this includes a barrel to age water (preferably at least 50% of the volume of your tank) with a dedicated heater, air pump and air stone. I keep my barrel full - each time I do a water change (every other day) I refill the barrel so that the water will be heated and aged ready for the water change.

You will also need a quaratine tank which can be very simple with a sponge filter and a heater. You can keep the sponge for the filter in your quarantine tank in your main tank so that bacteria will colonise it and it will be ready to go if your fish get sick.

I suggest you invest in the water change barrel immediately. It will help you solve your problem by allowing you to do big water changes without stressing your fish too much.

R.

[Benzo]

okay so here's the update. i bought a real test kit (before i just had the all in one test strips...cheap i know). i had my girlfriend, who is not colorblind like me, check the tests. i think i was wrong before.
heres what i found before doing a water change:
ph 6.5
ammonia less than .25
nitrites 0!
nitrAtes 50!

so this is different but still bad i know. this means that my tank has cycled though right, because stuff is breaking down? what do i about the nitrAtes though. i have lots of algae which a couple of you may know from my other post in the amazon garden forum. ill try to find some water wisteria rwel4809 but they dont have it at my normal fish store. will hornwort do? i added some standard flourish to help the plants. ill start aging the water for changes...what does that do aside from evaporating chlorine?
thanks yall!

[Benzo]

one marlboro died. im bummed. :cry: my own fault for not getting a better test kit though. the good news is that the other marlboro is moving around again. everyone else is happy. :cry:

[rwel4809]

Keep up the water changes until you nitrates are below 10.

hornwort might help, but those feathery plants to tend to trap dirt which is not so good... The latin name of wisteria is Hygrophila difformis.. but any of the hygro should do...

Your fish won't be happy with any amonia in the tank, or with nitrates that high...

R.