ph down

[lpiasente]

I am spending about $30 plus per month (500ml bottle)just on ph down. I read here somewhere that you can use is it hydrochloric acid. Does it work out cheaper? how much do you use?
Thanks

[DiscusJoe]

Any particular reason you are using buffers?

[ILLUSN]

HCl from bunnings cost $18/5L i use 30ml a night to drop 500L of tap water from 7.6 to 6.5.

you'll have to "tune" your dosage based on your tap water, but 20ml/500L is a good start, just add it 1ml at a time till you hit your target.

[lpiasente]

My tap water ph is around 9+ my ph set doesn't go high enough to read it exactly.

[lpiasente]

thanks
when I buy ph down from the pet supplies is it actually hydroclhloric acid just in a fancy bottle?

[ILLUSN]

Usually its phosphoric acid H2PO4, its a little milder than HCl, that being said as acid buffer by seachem contains no phosphates I'm assuming that has a little HCL mixed in with filler.
The stuff from bunnings is VERY strong, it basicly a saturated solution so equivilent to 12 molar (~36g/100ml), while your there get some nice thick ruber gloves, you'll need them.

[simmo2302]

just thought i'd add my 2 cents in.

Until recently i had been using Prime, Geoliquid discus & Ph Down. to condition the water.

under my 3ft discus tank i have a 2.5ft WC tank which i fill up with tap water add prime to remove chlorine,etc,etc, and i added geoliquid discus cos the LFS recommended it, and some PH down to lower it a bit more.

the only problem i have had with this is that geoliquid conditions the water but takes 48hrs + to lower the PH down to below 7.0, and PH down is too expensive considering how much i ave to use to get the water close to 6.0 -6.3

so after reading this and other threads, i went down to bunnings got some hydrochloric acid. made up a 10% solution (900ml water 100ml acid).

i have added 10ml to the WC tank and will retest in 6-12 hrs and see how it is.

based on ILLUSN calculations 20ml /500L = 2ml/50L (but i have a 10% solution made up so that would be 20ml solution / 50L)

[33% of my 3ft x 15 x 18 discus is approx 50L, and since they r sick discus i rescued i do a WC every 2 days )

P.S. i m unsure on how good Geoliquid Discus actually is ($20 for a bottle), i may just stick with Prime & the acid solution to prep the water.

[ILLUSN]

your water might be diffrent to mine this week i'm using 22ml/500L to hit 6.0

[lpiasente]

As you are doing so many water changes at this stage geo liquid is really not necessary. If you are using prime you don't really need it.

[simmo2302]

well i tested the water before adjusting wioth the acid, and got a very dark blue/green colour.

after 10ml of solution and waiting several hours the water was a yellow/greenish which is about 6.3 on the colour chart

[xrboy_85]

Hey illusion

i found the best place to buy acid is from the local pool shop!!!! ie bunnings tax is about %600000000 inflated!!! i bought my 5L for $7 :D :D Bargain!!!

[rex82]

if you aren't trying to breed them.....why bother?......my growouts and holding tanks are straight tap conditioned with an airstone and thats it.......ph sits about 8.....it's only the breeders that i bother dropping the ph....it is better to have a stable ph than a fluctuating one...

[xrboy_85]

Hey Ross

i only drop mine a little because i was lead to believe they would be happier with slightley acidic water,

my tap water comes out at about 7.0 so when i fill my 4ft conditioning tank i just drop a dash in to bring it down a little, it seems to be stable i have never had a crash yet but i suppose it helps that i change thier water every 2-3 days.

[simmo2302]

i have allways been told that there are less problems at the lower PH's. less diseases, etc.

i dont have any fluctuations. i drop mine from about 7.8 down to about 6.0-6.3.

and from very sick near death fish (many ppl oin this forum have seen the pics and will attest to that) they have made an amazing recovery at that ph, with frequent WC and a few meds.


also on a similar note i dont kno if this is a myth, but i was told that you wont get an ammonia spike at ph 6 or under, because ammonia isnt toxic at this ph, or the fish waste turns into a less toxic form of ammonia. or sumthing.

was told that from the guy at discusworld about 3 months ago over the phone, have forgotten exactly what he said, so i could have it ballz'd up.

[ILLUSN]

AT A ph below 6 ammonia exists as NH4+, this form is many times less toxic then NH3, its still not a good thing