Blackwater extract

[jwight]

I was wondering if anybody uses Sera Morena or another type of blackwater extract. My pH is constantly between 7.1-7.4 at the hardness I have not tested but I assume normal adelaide water (Quite Hard I think).

[chris@yen]

yeah, i tried that a few times. It's better than nothing. It helped lower the pH, but not really the hardness.

I think all Australian water is quite hard. I'm experimenting with peat moss, bought from a LFS a while ago. Seems to be very good at lowering both pH and Hardness.

It's a cheaper alternative as well, but can get a bit messy.

Hope this helps.

[leanne31]

I use geo liquid for discus its supposed to give you ideal water conditions for discus as in hardness wise but i still need to adjust my ph sometimes even though im quite lucky at the moment the ph coming out my tap has been at 6.5 for the last month or so i just hope it stays at that :lol:

[Kaza]

Leanne and Chris
geo liquid hasnt changed the hardness in my tanks, I have noticed once the cloudness clears up (10 hours) the water is crystal clear. Also the other day I had a small PH crash from 7.00 - 6.4 I havent figured out why yet. My water has a hardness of 9 or 161 ppm for growing out babies I think this is fine.
However for breeding this is too hard. I brought my RO unit which I think is the best way to control hardness. However I have to have the TDS meter on 300ppm to get the KH on 2 and the GH on 5. This means that Adelaide water has al ot of something else added to its water. The likely thing is SALT. After all we do get the Murry water.

Chris in Trott Park you are likely to be receiving the same water as me. However Leanne who is just around the corner from me has totally different water parameters. Werid, I know if the house is old this can effect the water hardness but this house is only 12 years old.

Chris how hard is your water?

[Kaza]

Sorry forgot to include you Jwight
what is your water hardness. Does you water come from Happy Valley res? I have contacted SA water for a read out of our water will let you know if I hear anything of interest.

[jwight]

Yeah where you live. I dont think the water is all happy valley resourviour as it is topped up from the murray occasionally.

[Ben]

i use a small amount of peat in my filter, i find this reduces ph and hardness, but! please make sure you use aquarium grade peat as i heard garden peat can have added addtives.

[AdelaideAnt]

Water from Happy Valley Mt bold Res= PH: 7.2-7.4 KH: 4-5 dkh. Don't be concerned about the KH the fish don't mind it at all and will help stableise your PH which is all that matters really. I tried to keep a hardness of .5 dkh and ph of 6.5 and the Ph just kept dropping. You could drop the ph to 7 if you'd like but don't worry about the hardness. More people having success in Adelaide when they don't play with the hardness. Black water extract will make your discus feel more at home but isn't entirely neccesary.

Anthony

PS: Keeping discus in the south of Adelaide is extremely hard given our almost undrinkable water supply, my advice is to use rain water and add salts and nutrients. One i can think of off hand is called Sechem Equalibrium or other seachem buffers & salts that are specifically designed for discus. Or you can add marine salt and have some shell grit in your filter system to buffer some hardness. Often water changes can = death for discus here so if you chose to use our tap water make sure you contact Simon at reynella Aquariums and ask him if the water is ok to do a water change. He won't always be correct but is your best bet as he choses to use our tap water and does so succesfully.

[Kaza]

I was talking to someone the other day who lost all of his discus due to "something" added to Adelaide water, he never found out what. This isnt an isolated case!

I use RO water mixed with filtered tap water, is there a way to raise the KH? As mine is only 1-2.

Rain water could be good, but I worry about pollution and I would need heaps of rainwater.

[AdelaideAnt]

There is something in the water that evades most tests. I have seen results of samples that were tested in sydney of the water and the white sludge that comes with it. Nothing appearing that you would consider harmfull, yet fish keep dieing after toxic water changes. Only thing that may harm the fish was a high silica content that may rid the water of oxygen, but not enough to cause the problems that have been occuring. This white sludge is covering the substrate and the gills of the fish which results in the death of the fish as well as killing all the benificial bacteria that is containd within the aquatic environment (which results in further fish losses due to amonia spikes).

Using products like i said would raise the KH or putting shell grit in your filter system (or substrate). Yes pollution is possable and that is a slight risk if you use rain water (eg i now live in mclaren flat and we can't use rain water because of pesticides). Filtered tap water seems to be ok and alot better to use than tap water, people using RO water are also not having as many problems as those using pure tap water.

Even when tap water is aged for 3 weeks and airated it still comes up milky. If your Ph is sitting stable then i wouldn't worry about raising your KH. I used to raise the KH because i was using rain water which was 0 Kh.

Anthony :)

[jwight]

Thats a bit scary as I only use aged tap water with declorinators. Havent had a problem but Ive only had them 3 weeks.

[Sean]

Hi Anthony
Adelaide water milky after 3 weeks - milky after Geo liquid that is? or are you refering to something else?
I live near the city in Adelaide and have very hard water - I used to use RO water (2/3rds, 1/4 conditioned tap water) on all my tanks and now use 100% conditioned tap water aged outside in the sun in plastic containers and picadilly water drums (I know :roll: ) for at least a full day and night. My fish have not looked better for ages and certainly have no observable problems from using 100% Adelaide water. On my breeding tank I still use RO water. I do use aquarium peat in my cannister filters though. For the extra hassel of mixing RO water the fish do not seem to benefit IMO. LFS including Seaview and Clearwater use all Adelaide water in their tanks too - to no observable detriment. Are we fussing too much and making the keeping of Discus too complicated - I wonder sometimes :?
Sean

[AdelaideAnt]

Sean, the problems are south of Adelaide. From roughly around Aberfoyle Park to about Huntfield heights. Not problems from Seaford onwards as they get their water from Myponga Res. Rumer has it that it could be from new housing developments and the back flushing of toxic substance (that lines the pipes) into the water supply (not neccasarily a problem caused by the res).

I'm not over reacting, i am a big beleaver in the idea that discus are alot tougher than people make them out to be, but i posted this because i want to help out those who live within this region and allow them to become aware of the water situation here.

Also what you see in the shop display tanks is not neccesarily the full story, i know that shops including one you mentioned have had their fair share of problems.

Jwight, let me know how your tanks progress :)

Anthony K

[leanne31]

I live in adelaide also in morphett vale I have no trouble with my water. If anything my ph is good never have to do a thing it comes out my tap at around 6.4 - 6.5 all I do is fill up with tap water declorinate and add geo liquid ive had no problems with my fish yet but ive only had them 2 months. my sister lives around the corner though and her ph is always a lot higher 7 and above so go figure.

[AdelaideAnt]

Yea Geo liquid has been having some success as well, i used to think the product was a load of crap, i thaught there was no way it could do all the things it says it does, but it has proved me wrong in recent times as i know of alot of people using it and they think it is great. Maybe that is the key?

Hmmm 6.4-6.5? I've never herd of it coming out of the tap at that PH before. That is strange how it differs :?.

Its good that your not having any problems, you are one of the lucky ones.

Anthony 8-)

[Sean]

Thanks for this posting - it is nice to hear that others in Adelaide are trying to deal with the crap water we are stuck with. I suppose the more we do to ensure we have good water conditions the better. I thought that the geo liquid is a rip off - suspended clay particles with a bit of water conditioner in it - there are so many products pushed at the LFS, I am sure most of it is ineffective. Maybe it is time to look into a RO unit. :?

[faewyn]

Glad I found this topic.
I have had trouble with Hard water for over a year, although I can have massive pH swings in different tanks, at any given time.
Up here @ golden grove, the pH out of the tap is around 7.4-7.46 :shock: Drops a bit, depending on the weather *literally*
One question, Does anyone use Sera Super peat (blackpeat filter granulate)
I have just purchased some as Tetra BW extract in liquid form was proving to expensive.

[Sean]

Hi Jess,
I use the sera peat, but usually buy the cheapest I see at the LFS. Seaview have 1Lt Peat granules for about $13.00, which I am trying next. I use the peat in a cannister filter which i am not sure whether this is the most effective way of using it. I think it probably helps with conditioning of the water, but when you do as many water changes as me it probably doesn't last that long - but would double up as a bacterial substrate at least. I don't trust Adelaide water with my breeding tank, so I use mostly RO and check that the pH doesn't drop too much. I have also tried the cheap Brunnings peat and wasn't impressed, didn't even colour the water a tiny bit.

[faewyn]

Thanks sean,
Wow $13 for 1kg of peat granules is a bargain.

One thing I have noticed with the peat granules (which now I think about it, makes common sense) when you heat the peat, to make them waterlogged, it gives off alot of ammonia to start with, as peat is decomposing anyhow, which gives off ammonia.
I rinsed it out and let it soak over night and there barely was a reading the next day in the bucket.

Its taking forever to lower the pH :| not impressed.. I guess I need to add alot, like you said.
Yes the water here is not so good. Since winter the water is now supplied from the hills instead of the murray, we had excellent rainfall.

ahh well if it all fails, there is always Rift lake cichlids :wink:

[Sean]

Umm, 1Lt which should be 1Kg but not!, I think it will be enough for a 4ft tank. Rift cichlids? haven't heard of them but have Frontosas and blue dolphins - pitty Discus are not as easy to care for, but they are worth it! :roll: