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View Full Version : Mistakes I made with Formalin & PP



TW
Mon Dec 29, 2008, 06:31 AM
Ok, I am a dope - I know it already. So pls be gentle ppl, as I'm feeling a little fragile ATM.

I thought it was important to share my mistakes, so hopefully members here won't repeat them, as I managed to kill 2 of my discus.

This is a little long, but I wanted to set the scene. You can always just skip straight to the summary at the end, where I list my 5 errors.

A turk in the 4ft started to head stand. He could right himself when he swam & he still had an excellent appetite. But whenever he rested, he did so in the head stand position. On Christmas day a fish keeping friend had a look at him & pointed out he was breathing heavily from one gill only. The other gill was not working at all. If you have a copy of "The Naked Truth", a great discus book by Andrew Soh, on pg 143 there is a pic of a discus with constantly opened operculum & drooping membrane - that is what my turk's gill looked like. I never had a case of gill flukes before & I just missed this. I had thought it might be a swim bladder problem. My friend checked all of the discus in the tank & a really nice domestic brown was also affected, but not so seriously as yet. Breathing heavily from one gill. The other gill was closed. No membrane hanging down & no head standing. No other fish displayed any similar symptom, but both Andrew's book & my friend said that since more than 1 fish was affected, I should treat them all.

I followed the treatment in Andrew's book page 144. All occupants had a 24hr PP bath, done in a separate container. I was very careful in the weighing of the PP & made my stock solution exactly as I have read it should be. I wish I had stopped there. I transferred all except the turk & the domestic brown back to their usual home. I decided the turk & domestic brown were "serious cases" so I immediately proceeded with the treatment for those in a "serious condition". Looking back, only the turk was really "serious". The brown was not head standing. His membrane was not hanging down.

Anyway, I set up a separate container & took my formalin from the fridge & dosed as per book's instruction, to give them a half-hour formalin bath. But I overlooked Andrew's very important instruction: "observe the sensitivity of your fish". Well, I set a timer for 30mins & then went about doing other things. I didn't sit & watch them. When the timer went off, I scooped them out & put them in the fresh little QT I had ready for them - but they were dead.
So, in summary my mistakes:-

Mistake 1
Though I used separate containers for PP & formalin to keep the meds separate, I overlooked that the fish would have PP residue on their bodies.

Mistake 2
Insufficient time passed between the 2 different treatments. I should have waited a minimum of 48 hours between the 2 treatments. But really, I should not have treated the serious cases with PP at all, if I had any intention of treating them with formalin. Once I did treat them with PP, I should have allowed time for PP treatment to work. I understand now that both PP & Formalin are strong meds. Following one treatment immediately with the next was enough to kill them.

Mistake 3
Incorrect storage of formalin below 4 degrees celcius, which can make the formalin toxic (see pg 153 of "The Naked Truth". Formalin must be stored above 4 deg Celsius to prevent formation of paraformaldehyde precipitation, which is highly ichthyotoxic). Mine was stored at around 2.7 deg Celsius.

Mistake 4I did not sit & observe the fish. If I had, I could have pulled them out of the formalin at the first sign of distress & maybe saved them

Mistake 5
Didn't ask here on the forum for advice, before I proceeded. Will never understand why I didn't ask first.

I feel gutted I caused my fish to suffer & feel very responsible, but I have learnt a valuable lesson that I will never forget.

I am very grateful to Andrew Soh, who took the time during this holiday period to reply to my messages, helping me to understand where I went wrong.

If there is a Mistake 6 it is that from now on, I will leave Formalin to the experts. I don't think it's a med I will use again.

Take Care,
Robyn

lpiasente
Mon Dec 29, 2008, 08:06 AM
Hi Robyn, I feel terrible for you. :( So sorry

pink66
Mon Dec 29, 2008, 08:25 AM
I am so sorry Robyn :cry: , it is never nice when this type of stuff happens..

But thank you for sharing to give others information that may assist in the future.

That is very brave of you indeed :wink:

Hollowman
Mon Dec 29, 2008, 11:31 AM
Robyn,

Don't feel sad for trying to do the best for them. I know it hurts that your fish died, but it is just one lesson learned along the sometimes bumpy road of discus keeping. You have used 2 of the most potent meds known in fish keeping, which is a brave move to begin with, I am glad you had the confidence to try them. Andrew's advice is always good, his book explains how to use PP well.
I have had head standers before, and euthenaised, sometimes the effect of trying to save them is more damaging in the long run.

Posting your 'mistakes' on the forum is also a brave move, but also one that will help others in the future not to make the same mistake again.

Chin up Robyn, now you will have to replace them............ :wink:

Steve :)

waitaki
Tue Dec 30, 2008, 08:07 AM
that's tough Robyn. At least you know what to do next time.:( thanks for sharing the experience.

TW
Tue Dec 30, 2008, 11:54 AM
Thanks for understanding guys