sick discus :(

[ChiefZero]

I all I am new here, glad I found this site but wish it was for different reasons.

Ok I got a very sick discus. Right now I have 2 discus, a red turqouis and a pigeon, both had a nasty near-fatal contraction of what I believe was gill fluke. The red turquoise seems to be almost back to perfect, it just has some very dark colors now and I assume that will only come back with time but my other fish, the pigeon, has gotten very skinny and know swims on its side near the top of the tank. I assune this has something to do with the sickness, I mean stress caused no eating, but I don't know about the swimming on its side. Its been doing this for at least a week and it has been eating since saturday. Is this a swim bladder infection or what else, our my assumptions correct, and how do I fix this?

p.s. all water parameters are nominal.
p.s.s. I believe this is all the info needed but if you need anything else just ask.

[bartek]

Have you treated them with anything at all?

When you say the water parameters are normal can you tell us what they actually are?

[ChiefZero]

Right now I can not tell you the water parameters because I just got done with some medicine but before this the nitrates, nitrites and amonias were low, I can't remember but they were very good. this side ways thing was before my last water test.
I also used Jungle Labs Parasite Clear.
Please help, Oh ya the discus still swims around just fine, strait up and done, but not when it sits, it is side ways. It is not breathing hard but its fins are clamped, dorsal and caudal not anal.

[Merrilyn]

Welcome to the forum ChiefZero.

We need a bit more information before we can give you a diagnosis.

We need to know the exact parameters of your water. Just saying that the readings are low doesn't give us anything to work with. If you don't have test kits at home, take a sample of your water to the local fish store and ask them for exact readings. Ammonia and nitrite should read zero in a healthy tank. Even a low reading of either one can be toxic to your fish. Nitrates should read no higher than 20.

We also need a bit more information about your tank - like how long it has been set up, size, other fish in the tank, how often do you do water changes and how much each time, what additives do you use at each waterchange, and your feeding routine, also the temperature.

All these things can give us an idea of the health of your tank, and the health of the tank directly relates to the health of the fish.

[ChiefZero]

ok well I found out that my amonia and nitrites are zero and my nitrates are about 8 ppm. mY tank has been set up for about a year and a half. I feed my fish omega flakes in the morning and brine shrimp or bloodworms at night(frozen and I let thaw before each use). I usually do a 25% to 30% waterchange weekly and use aquasafe to condition the water. Latly waterchanges have been about 25% twice a week due to medication in tanks. Have 30 gallon tank and have 4 danio 1 rasboro and a clown loache. and temp is about 83.
is that all?

[ILLUSN]

to me it sounds like internal paracites in the skinny fish , 30 gal isn't big i'd up your water changes to 30% every 2 days.

if you can add some prazi to the food it will halp take care of any tapeworms in the gut, just at 400mg/100g of frozen food and feed that 2x daily for 5 days.

if no improvemnt after a week try levimenisole at 2mg/L given once every 2 weeks for 3 cycles (50% water change 24hrs after each treatment).

I personally believe that your fish is too far gone to recover but atleast the other fish in the tank will have a good chance of removing any bugs from their system.

[ChiefZero]

Ya I hear ya. But I will not give up on this guy and With any luck he will recover.
How would he have gotten this? Only other fish added into the tank after him was tiny fish or plants.
the fish are rather small stil and that is why they are in such a small tank.

thanks for the help, I'll keep you updated.
ChiefZero

[ILLUSN]

i still believe that all discus naturally carry these organisums, during stress the paracites get the upperhand and overrun the immume system.

if your fish are small they may hve been in suboptimal condiditons before you bought them, given time the bugs got the better of your weaker fish.

this is just my theory though, i have no way to prove this, i worm all new fish when i buy them during quarentine.

[ChiefZero]

OK I got the prazi and put it in the tank, without cartridge in filter, and in the food, but it was too late for jack my pigeon discuss :(.
The other one looks darker than normal though, brownish almost and it is a turquios. I was wondering if its poo is suppose to look like a redish ball of very large strings and a white cloudy stuff around it. it is all between the pelvic, the bottom two fins.
Any thoughts?
Am I using the Prazing right?

[Merrilyn]

Sorry to hear that your other fish didn't make it.

The red ball of strings is a different type of worm, roundworm and threadworm. Prazi doesn't eliminate these worms. For that you need Levamisole, dosed at the rate of 10ml per 70 Litres if using the Sykes Big L Brand.

You'll find lots of information on Levamisole in this forum.

Do a huge water change to remove the prazi, add some carbon to your filter for 24 hours, remove the carbon, then begin treatment with levamisole.

[ChiefZero]

OK so if I get this I should mix it with its food?
To get this stuff should I go to a hardware/farm store or is there something at LFSs that someone would recommend?
ALso the disus is now eating the food and spitting it out, what does this mean?


ps Sorry for all of these questions. I am actually quit knowledgable about fish things but I usually don't have any sicknesses with any fish, short of a new arrival having fungus.

[Merrilyn]

If you're in Australia, Sykes Big L Pig and Poultry wormer is available at most farm stores, anywhere they sell farm produce. It's also available at online stores.

Outside Australia, I'd try some of the popular online stores.

The Sykes brand is very suitable for aquarium use, because it doesn't have any added glucose. Glucose will cause a huge bacterial bloom in your tank, so stay away from the usual pet bird wormers. Most of them contain glucose.

If the fish are spitting food, it's better to add to the tank water rather than the food.

[ChiefZero]

OK so glucose is one of the only things I really need to look out for that is normally in the de wormer.

Just thinking what does flat worm and round worm eggs look like?


Lasty and most important question is For my tank that is 30 gallons, 114 liters, I should use .227 grams or .057 teaspoons. IS this correct? This is if I am using a pig and/or poultry dewormer.I will also turn of the lights, Should I cover the front of the tank with a towel to stop the light? Should I feed as normal too?
After treatment is done and if effective how long untill the fish shows signs of improvment, Is this like an imediate thing?.

ya I know alot of different questions, srry, i just want to do this right.

[ChiefZero]

OK I was just about to use the leva.. stuff and I say my discus and it looks alot better and eating good. The only thing now is that is has white stuff sticking out of 1 of its gills, what does this mean and what should I do? I was about to change the water after a prazi treatment. What should I do?

[waitaki]

what sort of white stuff - is it his gill?
their gills are a white membrane or is stringy?
Do you have access to a camera and be able to post pics?

Answering your question about covering the tanks.
No you don't have to cover your tanks when worming only when you use an anti biotic.
Yes feed as normal. Clean the tank as normal - after a week on levimasole give the tank a 50 % water change - but you can also do small gravel vacs

[ChiefZero]

Ya I will try to get a pic. But I do not believe it is the gil, It really isn't stringy oter than a couple pieces that have broken off.

A week I heard that only a day is needed?
Is my .057 teaspoons correct for my 114 liter tank?

[waitaki]

mm - I just read the sticky here and followed the link. Yes they say a day. The regime I followed was 50% water change after a week - then do another 50% w/c and treatment 2 weeks later. Someone else might like to add their treatment regime.
As to the dosage - what brand are you using? If it is the liquid Big L product, it is 1 ml per 7 litres of tank water, which means you will need 16 ml - be sure about your measurements - millilitres for liquid.
If you are using the powder then your calculation is right.

[ChiefZero]

Cool. I did it and with any luck juliet, the discus, will be ok. Well I will try to go for a day or two. I actually think that the fish already looks much better just from it overnight. The lights are not on so it color is dark but its fins are very open. It didn't eat that much earlier but that may be because it wasn't able to see the feed that good.
thanks for the help.

keep ya updated.

[ChiefZero]

its only been a day but juliet the discus looks very much better. I hop the improvement continues. I will retreat the tank in two weeks. Thanks for all your help

[Merrilyn]

Glad to hear she's on the mend.

The improvement can be pretty dramatic after using levamisole.

[ChiefZero]

YA It was like a whole 180 in 1 day!

thanks