diseased clown loach...should i be freaking out?

[purplefishtail]

I have a 60 gal tank with:
10 juvenille discus (all sub 3in, the smallest being about 1.5in)
3 ottos
4 zebra danios
3 yo-yo loaches
3 clown loaches
1 male betta
pH 6.8, ammonia/nitrites/nitrates all 0, temp 84
50% water changes weekly (sometimes twice a week) with half RO/half tap water

I've had a clown loach that's been hiding for the past few weeks and only coming out right before bed time. He's been looking a bit pale, but when he came out tonight he looked entirely different. He's completely pale and he has three or so reddish brown cyst looking things on his sides. It looks sort of like Ich spots except that they're red/brown. I'm pretty sure this guy's toast because as I write this he's lying on his side breathing waaaay too fast and he's barely got any color. He makes feeble attempts to move somewhere else and then just gives up and falls over again. My real concern though are the discus. Does anyone know what this disease is? Is it going to spread to my discus? How can I treat it if it happens to somebody else?

[purplefishtail]

Here's a pic. You can see how white he is and the two red spots on what should be his third black stripe. There's another spot on the other side in about the same place. They are raised bumps. His stomach isn't as sunken in as it looks (that's a shadow from the plant he's under), but he is looking pretty skinny since he doesn't come out at feeding times. Help! I don't want to lose my discus!

[Hollowman]

I am not sure what it might have, but i would take him out and euthanaise it before you find it dead. Pathogens will leave a corpse very soon after death, so sooner ratrher than later is my advice.

I have never liked keeping clowns with discus, so you might find your tank calms down after it has gone.
I would make sure you(at least) maintain your twice weekly water change, once a week is really not enough. If the water has a high bioload, I would suggest that maybe your loach has suffered from that.

[BigDaddyAdo]

I agree. get him out and end his suffering ASAP.


Ado

[purplefishtail]

Well I sent him off to that big fish tank in the sky, but still no clue what was wrong with him. Nobody else in the tank seems to be having problems, including the two remaining clowns. Hopefully it stays that way.

[Hollowman]

Make sure you monitor them all closely, Keep up your water changes. Let us know of any changes ok, early signs are difficult to see, but often the best chance of stopping any outbreak.

H :)

[BigDaddyAdo]

The red spots my be wounds or ulcers caused by something else rather than a symptom of the actual disease.

Ado

[BigDaddyAdo]

I think rot can also cause red sores on the body as can body flukes.


Ado

[purplefishtail]

Thanks for the suggestions. So far no one else is displaying any issues, but I'll keep those in mind while I keep a look out.

[purplefishtail]

Ok. Just kidding. Looks like we're having issues.

A couple of the discus are starting to show fin rot and signs of gill flukes (clamping, scratching) and they're all not looking so hot color- and behavior-wise. I pulled them into a hospital tank and gave them a PP bath.

The following day they weren't looking much better so I dosed with Prazi (the brand is FishTapes) at 34mg/gallon which was what the packaging said. After a few hours the water turned cloudy and the discus were all gasping at the surface. When I started to do a water change they got scared and swam to the bottom where most of them began laying on their side. 3x75% water changes later everyone is looking about like they did before the treatment.

The last time I dosed with Prazi I also dosed with Metro and the tank did the same cloudy thing and killed all the discus in the tank. When I realized you're not supposed to combine those drugs, I assumed it was just that, but now it appears to be happening again with no Metro whatsoever.

Does anybody have any idea what's going on or how I should proceed?

[purplefishtail]

Lovely....lost all the discus in that tank. Came home this evening, the tank is totally cloudy, and everyone's floating. *sigh*

Any idea what happened? There's this white mucousy stuff all over their hospital tank as well as another one that I dosed at the same time at the same rate that had clown loaches, a betta, and some zebra danios in it. It's this thick layer all over the glass and the plants and everything. I swear I'm never going to bother with prazi again...

[Merrilyn]

Oh gee, that's rotten luck. I'm so sorry.

I'm not familiar with the brand of prazi you're talking about. Does it list all the ingredients?

It sounds to me like a massive bacterial bloom. Either there is glucose in the medication (is it for dedicated fish use ?) or something in it has wiped out your bio filtration in the hospital tank.

A bacterial bloom causes the water to go cloudy, and deposits a slime on the tank surfaces, and sadly, as you have experienced, it causes death to fish.

A total clean out of the hospital tank is necessary now, as well as sterilizing everything that came into contact with the tank. :(

[purplefishtail]

Thanks for the sympathy...I suppose this sort of thing happens to all of us eventually, but that doesn't really make it much fun does it.

The ingredients are listed as Prazi and cellerose..."For Aquarium and Ornamental Fish only", so it ought to be fish safe....Not exactly sure what cellerose is and running an internet search of it just turns up the medication.

Any recommendations on how to best sterilize a tank? Is hot water all that's needed or should I be using some bleach or something as well?

[Big Daddy1]

I've always used a mild soap like Dawn (dishwashing) with warm water to clean all of my tanks. Never had a problem afterwards.

Just make sure you do a really good rinse to remove all the soapy residue. That includes heater, lid, filter (cause its dead now anyway and no soap if it's a sponge filter) and any airlines and whatnot. If you have a bio wheel, I would consider getting a new cartridge instead of trying to rid it of bacteria.

Good luck!

[Big Daddy1]

Oh yeah, I use PraziPro buy Hikari, no cloudyness.