Safe Fish Food???

[pink66]

Whilst in the fish shop last week they told me that at all costs I should not feed my discus live blood worms due to the possibility of illness. I purchase brine shrimp (which he loves). I like to give a variety of foods and was wondering if you would please assist me with some "safe" frozen foods that I can use.. Should I avoid frozen bloodworms too??

thanks very much :? :?

[cityguy]

Frozen Bloodworm are not bad like live ones, they are processed and then stored at -12 degree's before chopped into cubes and refrozen into ice (again -2) for packing. Brine shrimps are great and so are freeze dried bloodworms. I also use Sera and Tetra Discus food for my fishes.

[tomahawk]

I feed mine frozen bloodworm too and they loveee it

[Hollowman]

Live bloodworm are fine as well as frozen. I also feed black mosquito lavae, glassworm(whiteworm) brine shrimp (live & frozen) as well as beefheart and tetra prima/tetra colourbits and ZM granuals.

As I mentioned in a thread earlier today replying to Andrew Soh's post, please don't rely on what your LFS tells you, more often than not they are not discus specialists and you will get bad advice. Here is the right place to get the right opinions.
It's free and we all want to help if we can. imo

Hollowman :)

[tomahawk]

Feeding live foods such as tubifex worms, daphnia, bloodworms, mosquito larvae accelerate the growth in Discus, but they carries an element of risk and are not safe food for discus. These live foods come generally from polluted sources and they contain a host of parasites, bacteria & viruses most of which are very difficult to eliminate with the best of medicines or chemicals.

When such unsafe live food are feed to the Discus, the pathogens are passed on to the parents and then to their frys and finally the fish dies. This is very disappointing situation to the hobbyist & breeders, due to which some times the hobbyist shy away from the hobby. In any event, no matter how you feed your discus, you should make sure they get Proteins, Fats, Carbohydrates, Vitamins and Minerals in correct proportion in their diet.

[Hollowman]

[quote="tomahawk"]Feeding live foods such as tubifex worms, daphnia, bloodworms, mosquito larvae accelerate the growth in Discus, but they carries an element of risk and are not safe food for discus. These live foods come generally from polluted sources and they contain a host of parasites, bacteria & viruses most of which are very difficult to eliminate with the best of medicines or chemicals.
quote]

I would guess that it is a risk we take every day. I have fed live foods as a treat for my fish often with no ill effects. (I never feed Tubifex though) If you have a healthy stock of fish then I feel that the risk is minimised and you should not dismiss feeding live food. Most of the frozen food bought in your lfs has been nuked in the process so again risk is minimised.
I would say that people face more problems through lack of care or poor maintenance, more than feeding live food.

Hollowman

[MalcolmC]

You cannot buy live blood worms in Australia and to the best of my knowledge, they have never been sold live in Australia. I would be very interested to learn if they are actually sold live anywhere, as they only have a short time in that "worm" stage before changing into an insect. Also, it has been about 20 years or so since tubifex worms were sold here. Tubifex worms are small red worms that bunch very tightly together and when viewed as a single worm, looks like a coiled or spring piece of wire. Everything you read about the cleanliness of live foods comes from America, or somewhere else overseas and I guess I get awful sick of hearing about ill informed people from your LFS making statements about the cleanliness of live foods sold in Aus. Yes, I do have a vested interest in this subject as I grow all the live worms sold here. I have had numerous tests carried out by Govt departments and tested by various labs and nothing adverse has ever turned up. The last test that was done came back with the statement that they were safe for human consumption..yuck The technical name for black worms is Lumbriculus Variegatus , do a search on the internet and try to find something written about them carrying anything harmful for your fish, because I haven't found anything.
Sorry to get on my high horse, but I do get so cranky when people are fed the wrong information..
Mal

[Hollowman]

Mal, I can get live bloodworm here in the UK, I guess it is imported, but not 100% sure. The fish love it, as I said, never had problems here.

[MalcolmC]

Are they alive or frozen? If they are alive, where do they come from, because I believe they do best in warm climates.Also, if they are alive, how long do they last for.

[cityguy]

Live bloodworm is also available here in India, but they are horrible and I keep a pole's distance away from them, they get rotten fast, smells like hells highway and you have to go on changing the water every hour or so to stop them from dying and getting rot. Yaak !

[MalcolmC]

Should read posts correctly, shouldn't I . Very interesting that you get them alive, how are they sold and about what price do you pay for them? Also, would you like me to send you some of my dried worms to test and report on?

[cityguy]

Malcolm, they are sold in big plastic buckets, scooped up into small plastic bags at cost of 20,30,40 cents based on the quantity. I don't think they are bred and kept in hyginic conditions before being brought to the LFS for retail selling, and I would not give them to even stray fishes rest assured ..

[Hollowman]

Mal,

They are sold in small bags, probably 5-8 grams of worms, not many. Not sure how long they last though, only a few seconds in my tanks lol, but seriously, I will try to find out where they come from. I must say that the quality is high, very clean water, no smell and they vigorously wriggle in the bag, guess they are oxygen filled too for transport. I will try to get back to this thread today for you. :)

Hollowman

[MalcolmC]

That may be the case in India, City, but I doubt that worms in that condition would be allowed in England.

[cityguy]

Malcolm, I guess anywhere in the world, it would be "unsafe". Maybe in India even the outward appearance is stinky, and in Uk its "upscaled", but live worms bred anywhere from Tibet to Timbaktoo, are not really preference 1 for feeding fishes. I may be new in Discus, but I have been fishkeeping for more than 10 years, and have many many friends in the fishkeeping circle, they echo the same openion as me, and thats the reason people opt for freeze dried or dried worms rather than live ones.. is it not ?

[Hollowman]

Mal,
After a couple of phone calls, I found that the bloodworm that I get is produced in Holland and imported to the UK. :)

H

[cityguy]

Live bloodworm, produced in Holland and exported to UK, thats new news to me. Hollowman, can you post or send some pictures on how the end products look ? This is getting very interesting. If there is a packaging and marketing involved, maybe I can try my hands locally in India :-)

[pink66]

thanks everyone i now have lots of food for thought.

i am glad that i can bounce q's through the forum.. :D :D :D

[Hollowman]

City, the bags are plain, no writing. Try to google the source, or try DPH forum for info, someone there might know.

H :)

[Merrilyn]

A lot of people confuse bloodworms with tubifex worms and blackworms. To most of us they all look like worms, but really, there is a world of difference in the way they are bred and raised.

Tubifex worms are what we used to get in Australia around 30 years ago. This was around the time that discus were first being imported, and we were all told that tubifex was the only food they could be guaranteed to eat. So we all fed tubifex and very often, our precious fish became sick and died.

You may or may not know that tubifex worms breed and are raised in the run off from pig or poultry farms. Yep, that's right. They live in raw sewerage!

Bloodworms are the laval form of the midge. A flying insect, similar to a mosquito, but larger, and fortunately, they don't bite. Haven't heard of them being commercially bred in Australia, but they are readily available frozen. My fish love them, as do most discus, but I limit their feeding to once, or at the most, twice a week, and never to juvenile discus, only to adults. Their exoskeleton is very difficult for young fish to digest. Adults don't seem to be troubled, so long as bloodworm only for a part of their diet.

Australian blackworms are, as the name implies, native to Australia. They are commercially grown and are available as live, frozen and freeze-dried worms. They are grown under the most hygienic conditions, and so long as they have been packed and held properly, are very safe and nutritious.

If you pick up a bag at your LFS and the water is cloudy, the worms dark and hardly moving, put it back and RUN far, far away. The water should be clear, the worms brightly coloured and wriggling happily. When you get them home, feed them to your fish straight away, or store the surplus in the fridge for 24 hours. If you want to keep them longer than that, you need to transfer them to a larger container with an airstone, and change the water twice a day. Keep them as cool as possible.

For convenience, I like to use the freeze dried worms, with an occasional treat of live worms.

Conclusion - NEVER feed live tubifex worms.

Occasionally feed frozen Bloodworms, and only to adult fish.

Australian Blackworms are safe to feed, in whatever form you choose, and can form PART of a balanced diet.

When feeding fish "All Things in Moderation" is a very, very good rule to follow.