New Discus illness?

[kayvon77]

Hi guys,

This is my first post on here although I have been sniffing you guys out for some time now :wink: and now I'm actually in a situation where I can't decide what is the next course of action for me from the knowledge already out here. So here goes:

I just received my first online order of Discus fish from a reputable discus dealer. I ordered 3 discuses to add to my existing happy 3 discus family.
It's been three days since they arrived and my Red Turq until today has been pretty shy and hiding away under my Driftwood and coming out once in awhile. He seems to be more out than hiding away now. I noticed he was rapidly breathing from one of his gills the other day. Now, he seems to be breathing from both gills, but seems somewhat fast. Could this be gill flukes? I noticed he is gaining alittle more appetite everyday - this should be a good sign. Should I be concerned about this?

My Ocean Green on the other hand doesn't seem to be doing as well. He is listless and hangs in the back of the tank and hasn't really touched food. Of all my Discuses he seems to be breathing the slowest. I also noticed that on one of his side there appears to be missing patches of scales. For the most part, he trys to keep up with the pack, but most of the time he prefers to be in solitude. Could he have a bacterial infection? Could the stress of the shipment and being introduced into a new tank have triggered the disease? What should I do? Should I wait and see if he recovers, or should I start with some medication?

As far as Tank Parameters goes: 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrate, 0 Ammonia, PH: 7.0, Temp: 81 degrees. Everything checks out ok.

I also used the drip method acclimation process to get them adjusted to my tank with minimal stress. It took about 2 hours to do this.

Your much valued feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Kayvon

[Andrew Soh]

You mean you didn't quarantine the new arrivals and just throw them into the existing tank :shock: ?

Wow...you are going to get more than you ask for....more trouble than you paid for.... :cry:

Anyway, whether you bought it from a reliable breeder or not, each has its own set of pathogens or bacteria.....and reliable breeder is one who is responsible and take care of all areas of possible adversity but doesn't mean he has to do prophylactic treatment every week or every month and so on and to ensure that not even a scale dropped off the discus... :roll: .

So his fishes too may harbour some insignificant amount of pathogens. But when moved to another permises, due to stress, may trigger bacteria proliferation.

On the other hand, because they are moved to new permises, they may be stressed and that invites invaders from the existing fishes.....and the new arrivals may have no resistant to those invaders.

So quarantine is very important and must be practised.

But since you have already mixed the old with the new....we should work from here.

One gill working and the symptom you mentioned may be new water/new perimeter syndrome. It is not only the reading of ammonia level or the nitrate or nitrite or conductivity. IT is the difference in minerals' composition.

Give them a period to heal their possible inflicted injuries during packing and transport.

If your tank is a clinical tank, go to the LFS and get some acriflavine.

Add acriflavine @ LFS recommended dosage (never give less to save money or out of fear) and also add salt @ 100gm to 100 litres of water.

Maintain these treatment for two weeks and see what happen. You can make water change but redose to strength.

If the new arrivals do fall sick, antibiotic or/and PP treatment may be deem necessary.

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[kayvon77]

Thanks for the reply Andrew. Yeah, I know. Me Bad. I thought, well I primarily have Discuses in the tank, so if anything happens with the arrival of the new ones I'd just medicate the whole tank, because chances are others would contract the same ailment. I don't know if that's a flawed way of thinking about this, but that was my reason.

However, since, I've already screwed up and added the new ones without quarantying them, I'll just have to see how I can deal with it as of now.

I have a planted tank with a few Sterbai Corydoras, two flying fox, and about six tetras. Would the treatments you suggested compatible with these species of fish? Also, how long should I wait before I start the treatment? Thanks so much in advance for your help.

Kayvon

[Hollowman]

The treatment Andrew suggests should be ok with the other fish, the master has spoken.

Quarrentine is a must for all new stock, it saves so many problems.


One thing Andrew, and I know you will laugh...you said "Add acriflavine @ LFS recommended dosage" , but I wouldn't trust anything an LFS told me, I would use the label on the bottle, but I am sure this is what you meant though. :lol:

Steve :roll:

[Andrew Soh]

Hello Steve....ha!ha!ha!....I am laughing.... :wink:
Yes, as instructed on the label :D

Yes, Kayvon......you are only human to mix without quarantine. Who can bear separating new from old after the purchase. It is the temptation of wanting to appreciate the new arrivals in the community tank as soon as possible.

Back to the solution......wait for a week to see any changes......any improvement............

If no improvement..then treatment may be necessary. I think acriflavine is not phyto-friendly. Tell us again the progress and may have to suggest otherwise.

Take care,
Andrew

[kayvon77]

Will do! So far, I can see the Red Turq is more active than before, but still is breathing heavily from one side. My Ocean Green is status-quo and still not eating; he'll peck on some things from time to time, but haven't seen him indulge in anything yet.

Wow, I'm very happy to know I'm in good hands on here. Next time, definitly will do Quarantine before giving into my own desires :).

Will keep you guys posted. Thanks again.

Kayvon

[kayvon77]

Ok guys, I took the liberty of taking some footage of my tank to see if I can give you some visual as to the condition of my fish. See below.

Everything still status quo, although seems like the red turquoise has gained more of an appetite and the Ocean Green, though listless most of the time, he does now and then pick at food at the bottom of the tank. Nevertheless, the patches that are missing from his side don't look like they are getting better or getting worst. My Red turquoise still breathes more heavily from one gill than the other. Can you guys tell me what you observe by just this footage? You can't see both gills at the same time to see what I'm seeing, but I thought it would give you an idea of his rapid breathing. Sorry, its a bit fuzzy, but that's the best I can do with my Trio.

I had also ordered a Clean-up kit, which consisted of Prazi, Metro, and a Dewormer, when I placed my order for the New Discuses. So I have those on hand as well. What do you guys think about these medications? Can I treat their ailment with any of this albeit having to purchase medication from my LFS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MZCPDA7aIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75dL19qonp4 - you can probably see my red turqs rapid breathing better on this footage.

[kayvon77]

Anyone? Andrew ?

My Ocean Green looks like recovering his scales nicely, but still not eating. My Red Turq is very active, but still breathing heavily.

Am I just stressing for no reason? I'm just trying to be a concerning parent :)

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Kayvon

[Hollowman]

Don't panic, just lots of good water for now and see how it goes, give it week and let us know. :)

[kayvon77]

Thanks hollowman. Yeah, I'm a bit antsy about this. I'll cool my jets for now:).

By the way, I never said thanks for that RO Drawing you did for me to explain the intricate workings of the RO System. That did put things in perspective and I'm on tap to get a flush system.

As for my Discuses, they seem like they are recovering nicely, except the Ocean Green. He seems more active than before, but he barely eats. I think since I have gotten him (1 1/2 weeks ago) he's just pecked at gravel. By the way, do Discuses eat gravel? I seem to see more and more of my Discuses picking up gravel in their mouth and then realizing its not foot and then spitting it out. I almost got mad at them when I saw them do that. I felt like I needed to jump in the tank and have a word with them like, "don't I feed you kids enough that you're now trying to eat gravel?" hahah.

Thanks again.

Kayvon

[Hollowman]

No problem Kayvon,

I will help where I can.

Discus don't eat gravel :lol: but by nature they are grazers, and because you have a gravel substrate, there will be lots of food trapped between the stones. What you are seeing is the fish looking for uneaten food. This is why many keepers go for keeping discus in a bb tank or a tank with a thin layer of sand on the bottom. Uneaten food trapped in gravel can turn toxic very quickly and lead to poor water quality and fish health problems, so keeping it regularly vacuumed is a must.
Don't get mad :evil: get BARE :shock:

Hollowman :wink:

[kayvon77]

My Ocean Green is still not touching food, except an occasional bite of blood worms. Should I panic now? :) Please advise. I can already see his stomach is starting to get sunken in.

[Hollowman]

Discus can go without food for weeks at a time. If he is picking, then it is still ok. When a fish is mal-nurished the forehead will start to sharpen, but this is something to be avoided.
I am sure it won't come to this, so just try feeding him and monitoring what he does eat. Maybe Andrew will return to the thread to give some more advice, other experts please jump in.

H

[kayvon77]

Thanks Hollowman. Actually, I just noticed that the Ocean Green is now eating pretty enthusiastically since last night. So seems like he is now settled in. Thanks so much for all your insights and guidance. Looks like I was overly concerned about his lack of appetite.

Everything seems good so far. Thanks guys.

Happy (now) Discus Keeper,

Kayvon