possible hexamita infection sources?

[DIY]

Hi All,

I suspect I might have a discus infected with hex, the symptoms are:

long stringy looking poo that doesn't want to break away. It's very light red in colour - almost white.
It isn't schooling with the others like normal. Has been spending a fair bit of time in the back corner very dark.
Not as interested in food, normally they are always hungry, this one is only coming to his favourite food (bh mix) and will eat a small amount then go to the back of the tank. Other foods he's pretty much ignoring.
I've also noticed he is holding one of his pectoral fins close to his body often, wierd thing is he's done it with both sides.

After researching hex and visiting a vet I've decided to do a course of Metro. It seems like it's not very stressful on them based on other reports so I'm doing it as an early med / precaution.

Now for my question, how did I get it? I've had them for 4-5 weeks and no sign of it before. I haven't introduced anything new to the tank.

at the moment I have 2 theory's

1. one or more have had it the whole time. Their immune system has been working well and keeping the hex at bay. I did a large 75% water change on friday night that stressed them a little more than normal. I'm not talking major stress though... This allowed the hex to take over???

2. I have in the last week introduced a new food, a cheap frozen bloodworm that I got on special 10 packs for $15. the reason I'm considering this is it's the only new thing I have put in the tank AND I gave some packs to a relative with 2 oscars... and guess what - now he has noticed white stringy poos with one of those on the same weekend???

Is there any other ways hex can be introduced?

[DIY]

Oh, and to pre-empt your water quality questions

I'm doing a 10% water change almost evreyday... occaisionaly I miss a day. I also do at least a 20% water change on the weekends.

I am probably overfeeding them a little, can't help it they look at me and beg whenever I'm around and I'm a big softie...

My water params are

ammonia = 0
nitrite = 0
nitrate = faint colour on test, at a guess around 1-2ppm certainly no more than that.
PH = 6.8
temp = was 29.1 (digital therm) now I've increased to 29.7

[ozarowana]

You want to increase the heat to about 32-33 deg to treat hex. Airation needs to be increased aswell.

If you don't already know
200mg per 20L
50% water change everyday and redose
repeat for up to 5 days

[weird]

Dunno how you got it, but I thought hex was commonly present in Discus in small quantities, and a weakened immune system due to stress or other illness means that they are susceptible to a hex breakout.

Some fish are more susceptible than others, cichlid examples also include angles, uaru and oscars.

Anyhow something dodgy may have been in the cheap bloodworms, discus got sick, hex which already present got on top of a weaken immune system.

That is my slack a8se theory, someone more knowledgeable could tell you better.

Hope your guys get better. I had a terrible 1 mouth outbreak of hex, ended up doing a huge treatment at end which finally worked. Hopefully you will get the hex outbreak early. Good luck.

[weird]

I was thinking about this on the throne, and one common thing that with both my tanks during a hex break out was that I was heavily overfeeding.

I have read that hex can commonly break out due to low oxygen or high nitrites, amongst other reasons. High nitrites would certainly be present if you were over feeding, and discus are much more sensitive to this than other fish.

[DIY]

Thanks for the replies,

Overfeeding I'm probably guilty of :oops: , however I'm sure there's no nitrite spikes or outbreaks. I test the water 3-4 times a week cause I'm keeping an eye on nitrates, and I test for ammonia, nitrite & ph at the same time.
Apart from a small mini-cycle period that lasted 3 days when I went from 2 to 6 discus nearly 4 weeks ago, it always reads 0-ammonia and 0-nitrite.

My trickle filter should be keeping the water oxygenated fairly well but perhaps not enough? not sure how to confirm this.

I still suspect the cheap bloodworms are at least partly to blame, Dave your theory on stress & dodgy bloodworms helping the hex take over sounds reasonable. As you say the hex is always present and I have had several suggest that to me recently.

Now for the update......

The vet gave me liquid flagyl suggesting this was the best way to go, I dosed based on a post that Kev responded on:

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=374

worked out to a rough 6.5mg per litre,
I dosed on day 1 and noticed by the end of the first day a slimy filter pad and water was slightly cloudy. Didn't worry too much as I figured this is probably normal. Changed the filter pad did a small 10% change even though it wasn't in the post above and redosed.

I had to go out straight from work for my wifes party, when I got home last night the tank was like a slimy milky colour. I couldn't see more than about 5cm into the tank... major panic. eventualy spotted the outlines of the discus swimming around so at least they were still alive.

I immediately drained as much of the water out as I could - app 80% and wiped a thick oozy jelly like slime of the tank walls. by 2am this morning I had refilled the tank and for extra filtration dropped on a "hang on back" filter I had purchased cheaply in case of emergency... Boy was I glad I had. This was to help clear up the water as quick as possible as well as to provide additional aeration.

The water was still pretty foul, and the poor discus had lost most of their colour looking very washed out and generally listlless in behaviour.. although this was at 2am when they would normally be sleeping I guess.

I changed the filter pad again this morning before I left for work, water is still pretty bad but the discus are looking much, much better and back to begging for food whenever they see me.

unfortunately I don't have time to change water now as I have to go out again but I will do another big water change when I get home... and I'm not going to dose with the liquid again.

I have no idea what caused the problem, the only chemicals that would have been in the tank is small amount of left over geo-liquid, and whatever is left in the water from a small amount of aqua-plus water de-chlorinator I had used when my water barrel run dry.

Summary - without more info I strongly recommend avoiding liquid flagyl in your tanks.

more to come...

[weird]

I hope Discus D does not mind if I pass this on, but he pointed me to this page ... the information to me was priceless

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php

[dreamer]

blame on the sugar in liquid flagyl!! it caused bacterial bloom *yaay* i once used liquid flagyl and yeah.....slime everywhere in the tank although no where as worse as your case. at least my tank was pretty clear apart from slime in the tank and in filter.

i wouldnt recommend liquid flagyl either, unless thats the only thing you can get.... my fish all cured ... but i really hate the slime ....**yucks**

[weird]

Check this name out ... "Metrogyl". I still have an almost full bottle of it still (thank repeats !) , 400 mg metronidazole ... I can't afford vets ... and when I go to the doctor I try to ask him 3 - 4 things ... I save it up , usually the 4th is , "by the way I have these sick discus that need ... "

[DIY]

Dave, thanks for the link. It's good to read something that references genuine studies. very interesting information
Next time I visit the doctor I'll mention my hobby & gauge the reaction..Vet's aint cheap. Hopefully my doc is as good as yours :wink:

Dreamer thanks for sharing your experience, at least I know I'm not crazy :lol:

I'm going to call the vet when I get a chance & ask for tablets instead. My buddies seem a lot better though - they are all eating. One is still dark and a bit listless but at least he's not just sitting in the back corner anymore.

I think I'll wait and see how he goes, with a bit of luck the 2 days of metro has given his immune system a chance to get on top and recover without needing more medication.

[DIY]

Update:

I'm feeding some bh mix laced with crushed metro tablets at a dosage 1g metro to 100g of food. I plan on doing this for another few days as insurance. They are all eating fine now so this is a more efficient method anyway.

After 2 days of very large water changes and a UV filter running the water is still a bit cloudy but not too bad.

Discus all seem pretty happy, they're acting like nothing happened and all as active as ever. They "bob" up and down in the feeding corner of the tank begging for food whenever I enter the room :roll:

[ctvu]

I am glad to hear yours are getting better.

Pls keep us update

[Bad Inferno]

Hi DIY
where did you buy the blood worm ?

I too had trouble last year and suspect bloodworm

[DIY]

Bad Infermo - I've sent you a PM.

The bloodworm's are in a white pack with a red bar on the left side and a picture of a worm wearing a crown in the middle. The only brand name I could find was "rainbow product of china" in small writing on the bottom.

The cubes themselves are a very dark red, almost black. I noticed on another thread someone said they should be a bright red :?

HTH