blind discus?

[dandaman352]

One of my red turqs was suffering from that horrible fungus like growth on his eye and I believe has gone blind in 1 eye. He's very fragile right now and darts around if anyone swims by that eye. The fungus has since gone away or is in the process of completely going away. He still has a tiny bit of white i the center of his eye and towards the left side seems to be a lil dark red on one side and light red on the right side of his eye. Is his eye going to get better or will he be blind and die off? His other eye has since gone from that nice "red eye" we like to black and dark. He's not really eating unless food falls infront of him. Since today he's been hanging out on top of the tank. Is there anything I can do for him or nah?

[JoeDiscus85]

How long had it been since he has eaten??? Have you gotten a look at his poo? The reason i ask(not eating) is a signt of internal parasites, Plus (Black eye) is another si.gn somthing is wrong. As far as blindness i have no idea about that. But i do know you should watch for white poo if you see white stringy poo he has parasites causing him to not have much of an appetite


Joe

[dandaman352]

I never see any of my fish poop, even the ones that eat like pigs. Its very strange.

[JoeDiscus85]

Well if he did have internal parasites atleast hex you would see the intestinal lining being shed,its white and puffy very noticible that its not nornal check the bottom of the tank where the sick discus hangs out look for the poo there. Keep us informed


Joe

[dandaman352]

I took some pics of my major problem in the fish tank, I don't know what to do. All my water changes , modified tap water or modified RO water won't help. I'm completly out of ideas. This is basically it, I'm about to give up perhaps I'm just not meant to have discus and thats it. Anyway if anybody has really anything that can give me some hope let me know.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/dandaman352/meh003.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/dandaman352/meh001.jpg

[JoeDiscus85]

Yeah looks like that eye is pretty bad.... His color looks good he isnt dark so maybe no internal parasites.... But i do not know about that eye. Almost looks like a cataract or somthing of that nature. Any way how often do you do water changes??? I dont really think R/O would help much,Just do alot of water changes all you have to do is age you water overnight let the chlorine evaporate and let the gasses evaporate out. I had one cobalt that was plagued with cloudy eye,Id treat with meds and it would come back, So with some excellent advice from some people from this website i decided to up my water changes to 1/4 every night=175% per week. The cloudy eye went totally away never to rear its ugly head again. Let us know your water parameters, Ph,Ammonia,Nitrates,Nitrites???



Joe

[dandaman352]

I've been doing a crazy amount of water changes..

Parameters are 86 F , 0 alk, 50 hardness, ammonia nitrite 0 , nitrate 1, ph 6.0. My water is crystal clear, i have aa rena xp3 (for over 100 gallon) on a 75 gallon. I just don't get it. Everybody including the best of the best here are stumped.

[dandaman352]

Last 3 days I did 40% each time, I woke uip today and noticed his eye got alot worse.

[JoeDiscus85]

Maybe just a problem with that fish.. I wouldnt give up on discus. When i first got into discus i found a little turk in a lfs she was a very sick girl. With alot of tlc she is one of my nicest discus and hopefully soon to be a mommy : ) Its very rewarding once everything is up and running perfectly. And if it is perminant then you can name pirate or somthing.


Joe

[Hollowman]

If the fish is hiding , not eating and basically looking stressed, it might be best/easier to euthanise him. To be honest, the fish is stunted quite badly, so it does not have the best potential, and if left like this it might just be a long a painful demise for it.
If this is the direction you decide to take, them the best way to do this is to use Clove Oil, it is a painless and stress free way to euthanise a fish. Clove oil can be bought in any chemist/pharmacy, (used for human tooth relief) I can give more details on its use should you need it, or just want to know.

hth

Hollowman

[dandaman352]

With all due respect I don't care if he's stunted, I like him and wanna try to save him.

[dandaman352]

Also to reply to Joe, sadly its not just that discus it's flicking around my tank and other guys are getting it on and off. Its just sticking real hard to him.

[Hollowman]

Please dont think that I was telling you to do this, we all love our fish whether they are show winners or the lowest in the pecking order.
But sometimes, we have to do the right thing, and I have had to do this to one of mine just last week. If you cannot save him, then I have suggested a painless and dignified method for you to use.

I kept a one eyed fish for several years, she was a great mother too and produced loads of fry, but she was blind from birth, and was adjusted, having a fish loose an eye after it has been used to both might lead to its slow death if it gets stressed and gets a secondary infection.

Let me look into treating for you, I'll have to do some digging

Hollowman

[dandaman352]

I was told by somebody to try maracyn 1 and 2 together for ten days while doing a water change then repeating a dose each time to keep the water always super clean and medicated. If it dosen't work and he can't adjust I'll of course do the right thing.

Also on an interesting side note, in my aggressive tank upstairs YEARS ago, I put a silver dollar who was slightly smaller then the oscar in the tank (was going to let him grow in there). The oscar showed him whois boss and actually popped his eye. Not only since then till now is the silver dollar alive he's grown to be as tremendous as that oscar all with one eye. He's one of my healthiest in that tank and has had that 1 eye for years now.

[ILLUSN]

a fish can live for years with only 1 eye so dont let that put you off, my biggest oscar only ever had 1 eye.

have you seen any improvement at all Dan?

[dandaman352]

Hard to tell so far, but I'm hoping for some change.

[Andrew Soh]

Just came back from overseas and sorry for this late reply to your call, Dan.

This is an internal bacteria infection of the eye. It should not be a fungus infection.

Try to bring your pH lower but gradually to 5.5 or 5 over a day and maintain as that....using acid like phosphoric acid

Another way to bring down the ph from your pH 6 is to add as many dried Cattapa leaves as possible....10 leaves per day and continue adding and testing the pH everyday. ...till you reach and maintain at 5.

Ensure that the leaves must be very dry before you put in .....as damp or non-fully dried may foul the water....thus pushing up the ammonia and killing the fish. If this occur, change ALL water and repeat adding leaves

Cattapa leaves release acid slowly and discus can take it well. Adding an antibiotic together should help and speedup the recuperation....like erythromycin....or my concoction which I would not like to mention the name here as it is not nice.

Bear in mind that there may be possible success in the treatment but some chronic infection may be irreversible because of major/permanent damage to the organ.

Hope that helps... :wink:

Take care,
Andrew

[dandaman352]

Thanks for the assistance Andrew,

I've been treating with Erythromycin now for 2 days (maracyn 1 and 2) Each tablet of marcyn 1 contains 200MG of it.

While my fish seem to be responding to the medication and are starting to act a bit more normal the thing on the eye remains.

I'm not exactly sure where I can get those leaves or acid. Would PH down work? Also all the stupid testers here in NY the ph testing chart only starts off at 6.0 so I'm not sure what color 5-5.5 would be.

Is the medication strong enough or is there something better? My method of treating so far has been to do a water change then dose the tank every 24 hours. Was going to do this for about 10 days or so. Let me know what you think. Thanks again for the help.

[ILLUSN]

Dan ph down is usually phosphoric acid, it will work fine.

[Andrew Soh]

Yes ....pH down is o.k. since it said "DOWN"...ha!ha!

Sorry...I forgot you are in N.Y.....definitely no Cattapa leaves....maybe in florida... :?:

Nothing much you can do...except take out all the plants and also clean the gravels.

So, 1) Lower pH

2) treatment with antibiotics (yes also add metronidazole 1.5gm to 100 liter water....add lukewarm water to dissolve before adding into tank.)

3) Take out all plants and clean gravel....and kill all bacteria in your bio-filter and restart and reseed with new bacteria.

Andrew :wink:

[Andrew Soh]

Yes ....pH down is o.k. since it said "DOWN"...ha!ha!

Sorry...I forgot you are in N.Y.....definitely no Cattapa leaves....maybe in florida... :?:

Nothing much you can do...except take out all the plants and also clean the gravels.

So, 1) Lower pH

2) treatment with antibiotics (yes also add metronidazole 1.5gm to 100 liter water....add lukewarm water to dissolve before adding into tank.)

3) Take out all plants and clean gravel....and kill all bacteria in your bio-filter and restart and reseed with new bacteria.

Andrew :wink:

[dandaman352]

Gotcha. This may sound silly but how do I kill all the bacteria?

[Merrilyn]

Dan, remove the filter put all the filter media in a bucket or tub, and sterilize everything with chlorine bleach, including the hoses and inlet pipes. Leave everything to soak for at least 24 hours, then thoroughly rinse the media and hoses. For the final rinse, use a double dose of chlorine remover in the water to get rid of all the bleach. Toss out the old filter wool and carbon, and replace with new.

Get some used filter media from the filter in your other tank, to kick start the bio filter again.

You'll need to do daily water changes and monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels while your filter is re-cycling.

While you're at it, I'd give the gravel and plastic plants a soak in bleach solution, to remove any lurking bacteria.

Follow Andrew's advice about lowering the pH slowly. You may need to buy a digital pH pen to monitor the levels. The test kits don't go low enough.

Treating your fish in the bare tank with antibiotics is the best way. So long as you've got an airstone in threre, and you're doing daily water changes, you won't have problems with ammonia or nitrite.

Keep the lights dimmed. A number of antibiotics are affected by strong light.

[dandaman352]

Thanks merrylin, I had already taken out everything other then gravel which I vac everyday during the change to keep my tank clean.

I wanted to give everyone an update of my fish and wanted to say that while I have been unable to get enough metro for 2 treatments (I have 5 grams will get another 5 on friday when the petstore gets their order). The maracyn 1 and 2 has done wonders, my guy has nothing on his eye anymore and is eating with his fins not clamped. I'm not really worrried about anyone anymore except my Red Turqs are still VERY SHY and I have to really go out of my way to make sure they eat for now. I lowered my PH to 5 (bought a digital thing) so now I guess before I say all my thank you's my only question is should I still go with a metro treatment just incase? And also bleach my filter if I do the metro or don't do it? I'm definatly going to finish the maracyn treatment but from here on in I'd just like to know what you guys think.

I'd love to show you pictures of my guys but my water is so cloudy from the maracyn I can barely see inside. Thank you everyone for helping me including a special thanks for Andrew and Illusn. I'll report back soon with some pictures when the dust is settled.

[dandaman352]

Sorry but I guess this is a time sensitive issue so if anyone can answer my questions from my previous reply I'd appreciate it. Thanks.