Clear Jelly like discharge

[snowy6]

I have been seeing chunks of clear jelly-like discharge on the side of the tank for many weeks. I have used PP, metro and salt bath but to no avail. I read somewhere in this forum that one of the symptoms of hole in the head is clear jelly-like droppings.

I have 2 discuses in the tank and none of them have hole in the head, neither are they dark, or have lost appetite. No clamping of fins or hidding in a corner. But they sure have this huge chunks of this jelly-like stuff. Are they sick? Are they contagious? Because I am planning to move them into a community tank, but hesitated and have waited so many weeks for this stuff to clear. The jelly-like stuff is getting lesser though after salt bath only to come back again.

[ILLUSN]

sounds like early hex mate, any chance of a phot?

[snowy6]

Eh... quite difficult to photograph them b'cos its clear, completely colorless. You won't be able to see a thing. I just wonder..... is that shedding of slime or are these, some say, the sperm? They can't be white faeces b'cos I have seen that before. What exactly is that jelly stuff? Some discus do shed slime and what is it like? It's nearly 2 months now and I am at a lost b'cos I can't be using medication unnecessarily all the time. I don't have such problem with the other discuses :?: :?:

[fishgeek]

cells that line the intestinal tract produce mucous when they are irritated

andrew

[albatrozz]

i have the same problem with my 2 fish. all my medication i try fails. i try lowering the pH, they still shed this white slime... but mine are different, they are black, hiding in the corner and completely lost their appetite. :shock:

[JoeDiscus85]

I,d almost bet my paycheck its hex as ILLUSN posted.


Joe

[snowy6]

Thanks for all ur reply. Sorry, but what exactly is hex? Dictionary says its magical charm, haha.... Any medication needed? :?: Thx....

[tanzy]

The medication is Metronidazole that is used to treat Hex. You will need to get this from the vet. The steps of treating are in the sticky at the top of illness and medications.

I hope this helps. All the best of luck.

Kell

[snowy6]

Finally... a more acceptable and visible shots.

[snowy6]

Thx, Tanzy. I have metro and will follow instruction as per the thread you mentioned. I have used metro, but not in the proper dosage, that is why it didn't work, I guess, but at least now I know what I medication to use and what's the problem. Thx.

[snowy6]

Help! I have completed the whole course of metro, but with no result. Right diagnosis?

I noticed my discus rubbing herself against object after completing the course of metro, I therefore used PP. I have also noticed that each time I used PP, that jelly discharge increases, and doesn't seem to clear until I stop, then it will come back again, but in smaller quantity, then add PP, it starts all over again. What exactly is this stuff? Can anyone help, pls?

[ILLUSN]

that looks very strange, i havn't seen that before, almost looks like the goo that surrounds snail eggs.

you sure that come from your fish.

[snowy6]

eh....I only have 2 discuses and 1 sucker in the tank. The sucker is new, I had this problem even before putting in this new sucker, therefore, it cannot be from the sucker. This discharge is in quite alarming amount. The picture above is nothing compared to the alarming amount I mentioned on the 1st day I used PP.

Thanks for getting me to take this picture (I haven't thought of it at all before). I showed this picture to a breeder, but I went to him at the wrong time when he was busy arranging to ship his discuses overseas. But he took a quick glance and said he has never seen such thing. Two other experts present also said they have not seen something like that but added, that this fish must be a gone case. Ooh..... but my 2 discuses sure look fine, not clamping, not hiding, eating well. The only problem is this huge amount of jelly discharge which never seem to go away permanently. It comes every 4-5 days and lasts about 5-7 days, cleared and then come again 4-5 days later.

[snowy6]

Here's a picture of the 2 discuses

[albatrozz]

those fish are very nice... i've never heard of that disease either.. but your discus surely dont look sick. Well if theyre not hiding and eating well then whats there to be worried about? :wink:

[snowy6]

Hope I'm not unduly worried because the discharge is in huge amount and we actually intend to put them into community tank. What if it's contagious and infect the rest of the fish in the comm tank? Unusual discharge, because we have 50 over discuses with no such problem. If this jelly discharge is unknown, I guess I will just leave these 2 discuses alone, with no medication and not move them.

Looks like this jelly discharge is going to remain a mystery because even the breeder doesn't know what that is. Thanks though, for all the reply to this thread.

[fishgeek]

that clarity of mucous doesnt look like it could have come from the digestive tract

can anyone who has kept discus confirm if it can be that clean off the skin/slime coat of a discus

excess slime production suggests some water borne or external parasitic irritant, as you noticed with the treatment of pp you did

the correct way to asses it for parasites is microscopy after taking samples direct from the fish

andrew, speaking with no discus experience at all

[snowy6]

Thx. Frankly, I do not know where to send this sample for test, especially in S'pore. Haven't heard of a fishery vet, ha...ha... I have been trying to take a picture of that alarming discharge I mentioned, but all didn't turn out well. These discharge are floating on the surface and stays on the side of the tank. It looks different before I lower the water level. It has got lots of bubble with the discharge. Once water level is lowered and when it sticks to the side, it looks so clear and chunky.

Just wonder if anyone has got a picture of that mucous from the disgestive tract, I wonder what it looks like. Slime from the body, I believe I have seen it because when I used PP on all other fishes, they will shed a blackish thin flake, I suppose that is slime?

I was hoping that with such huge discus experts in this forum, someone out there would be able to identify this unusual discharge from the picture I posted or there must be someone with the same kind of problem? On the other hand, without proper test, I can understand the impossible task. Anyway, I will still continue to attempt to take more picture and post if I can.

Thanks, guys, for all your patience.

[the german]

that stuff looks strange i dont think it comes from the digestive system and neither from the slimecoat,its just too clear.
your in S'pore so are your tanks outside?
maybe its not your fish?
like i said when it would be from your fish it wouldnt be that clear it would be full of bacteria.
when you like i can send it to a few friends in germany and ask them what they think,just send me a pic per email.

[snowy6]

Hi the german

I sent you an email, but was unable to post photo. Do let me know how I can email photo to you.

I just checked on my discus, the jelly discharge is clearing, will have to wait another few days for that alarming discharge to come back, then I will try to take a picture again, just to show you that alarming sight.

Thanks so much for your help.

[the german]

no prob mate i send you an email :wink:

[snowy6]

I just took another picture of my tank setup this morning. There are only 2 discuses, 1 albino sucker, 1 airstone on the right. A very simple setup. The discharge cannot be from the sucker, because it was added after the symptom started.

[tanzy]

I have no fish medical experience what so ever, but are these fish a mated pair and could the discharge be some kind of malformation of eggs ect.

Just a thought I had, sorry if it sounds really stupid.

Kell

[the german]

dont sound that stupid...

[snowy6]

Hi tanzy

We have 4 other mating pairs, but never have such problem. It is certainly not malformation of eggs. Thx for trying though. Umm... no harm trying, because you never know, you may just hit the jackpot.

[tanzy]

That's OK, I was just doing a little bit of lateral thinking to solve the mystery discharge. I hope you find out the problem soon and all is well.

Kind Regards

Kell

[snowy6]

More picture of that jelly discharge after a 2ml PP treatment to 44 litre water.

[Merrilyn]

Your fish look fine, and to be honest, I doubt that slime is coming from them at all. Fish secretions tend to be milky, either from the intestinal tract or from the slime coat of the skin. Have you seen it actually peel off from the sides of the fish?

Have you got any snails in that tank?

The other thing is, how often is that discharge appearing. Does it tend to happen at the same time as your water changes, before or after, and how long before or after.

What products are you adding to the water? I mean, can you list everything you are putting in the water, including chlorine remover or something to raise or lower the pH or KH. We need to know everything that's going into that tank, including the type of food you're using.

You say you just have an airstone in there. No type of bio filtration at all? Or do you use an external cannister filter?

I've seen fish food packaged in a jelly similar to that. Don't recall the name, but it had brine shrimp or blood worms suspended in a jelly like compound.

When you eliminate the possible (the fish) then the only thing left is the impossible (the environment).

Try a bit of lateral thinking and see what you can come up with.

[snowy6]

Hi Merrilyn

To answer your question.

1) I stood in front of the tank for quite a while trying to observe if that stuff comes off from the body, anus or even mouth(vomit), but without luck.
2) No snails in the tank
3) It doesnt happen each time after water change. It just come, but especially after PP treatment. Discharge lasts 5-7 days or sometimes earlier, clear and then come back again approx 4-5 days later. Without PP treament, it come back after 7 or 10 days or so.
4) Product: Aqua Fresh Anti Stress Coat (I use this for all other tanks). Food: Tetrabits, Hikari Frozen Brine Shrimp. No bio filtration. Never used ph/kh product.

I am extremely puzzled because the discharge is in such large amount, sometimes lining the whole of the front and back tank. Can the fish shed that much stuff, I wonder? Like you said, it doesn't look like its coming from the intestinal tract or slime coat. Environment? Even doing daily 80% water change doesn't stop the problem.

Oh... you haven't seen the whole tank filling with stuff like that (didn't manage to take a good picture of that). Oh mine... this is really a mystery, such a headache. I tried malachite green, metro, PP and salt bath for 10 days, still no luck, it won't go away permanently. On and off... on and off... I get such stuff. Always subjecting these discuses through all sorts of treatment.

Looks like a very tough case, because none of you have ever encountered such problem. Anyway, will try to spend more time in front of the tank to find out where that jelly stuff comes from.

Thanks

[the german]

yeah thats what the germans said snails.... but when there are none :?

[the german]

do you have any lids on the tank?
maybe its something from outside the tank what turns int jelly when it get in contact with water?
worth a try i think,put some lids on.

[snowy6]

I just removed the lids about 2 weeks ago, so nothing to do with that. Symptoms started way before I remove the lid. Symptom also started when they were in another tank now occupied by another discus. So.. nothing to do with tank or lid.... 1 down.. No snail/no plant..2 down.. Food? The other discuses eat the same food, with no such problem... so 3 down? I use Aqua Fresh Coat for all discuses, so.. another 1 down. Umm.... what next? headache..

[snowy6]

Oh.. something I forgot to mention. The female discus (spotted) has had bloated and popeye problem before. About 3 times so far due to over feeding. The last attack was some months back, I don't remember. That popeye problem stopped after we stop over feeding. Not sure if it has anything to do with that.

[Merrilyn]

It is indeed a mystery :?

Did I understand you to say that this was also happening to this particular pair when they were in another tank? And now that tank is occupied by other fish, with no sign of this jelly substance.

If that is the case, then I wonder if one of the pair is having an allergic reaction to the Fresh Coat you put in the water. Try doing a few water changes without adding that, but don't change anything else. Keep up your normal routine but just don't add the Aqua Fresh Coat.

Is there chlorine added to the water in Singapore?

[snowy6]

Hi Merrilyn

Ok will stop using Fresh Coat on this pair and see what happens. In fact I suspect, the problem may be with the female fish (spotted) because, this female was with another male discus in the other tank and the symptom already started then, but we thought the problem was with the male because he is always sick. When we separate them, and place a new male with this female, symptom is still there, but no such symptom with the other male discus.

I have been watching this pair, still didn't manage to see where it comes out from, though I saw her scratching herself against the spawning triangle and then saw a pc of that stuff floating thereafter. But then again, I can't confirm, becase it only happen once and whether this one pc of stuff was already there b4 the scratch or after the scratch, I can't be sure.

Last weekend though, I visited a another breeder and he claimed to be an expert in treating discuses and he has a lab of his own, specially to investigate and make medication for discuses. I didn't have the photo with me but I told him the symptom. He was so confident and says he knew what that is - its internal problem and that jelly discharge is some kind of oil. He didn't explain much because I didn't want to buy the product (its extremely expensive) until I show him the photo. I'm not prepared to make this pair go through more unnecessary treatment too.

Anyway, I will bring photo to this breeder this coming weekend and see what he says, and then feedback to you all. If the breeder is still so sure its internal problem, then I guess I will have to give it a try.

Will keep you all posted.

[snowy6]

Oh, forgot your other question. Chlorine and Chloramine are added into Singapore water and apparently chloramine was added sometime in 2006. Therefore, we have to use water conditioner that remove both. I nearly lost a discus when I fogot to add water conditioner during water change and our whole tank of goldfish was wiped out many years ago when we used only anti-chlorine product. Have spoken to some hobbyists who attributed the death of these fishes to choramine because they had the same problem too (all goldfish and discuses wiped out).

[dandaman352]

Hey snowy6, I noticed today I had the same thing on top of my tank. Like picture P1000981a.jpg thats exactly what I saw. Even though I see that jelly, all my fish's poop is black and after a tough time with my filter change (which I think could be your problem if you use a filter) everything went back to normal. It was actually thick enough that I took it out with my net. Anyway point is, everyone in my tank is healthy and I understand its a risk but its probably nothing. Hope that helps buddy

[snowy6]

Hi dandaman352

Thanks for sharing, finally someone with the same problem, but do you get that stuff very often and does it fill up the front and back of the tank? The amount I get is alarming.

Not sure too if they are contagious, though you said your fishes look fine, like mine, but then again that breeder I met last week was SO sure it's internal problem. Umm... just see what he says this coming weekend and see if he sound convincing enough to make me buy his product eh? But then again.... he's an expert, sometimes I just have to learn to trust his judgement for a start. Even if I get conned, it will only be one time, but if I don't give him the benefit of doubt, then there is no further development to eliminate this problem. These 2 discuses are a darling, I want to give them the best. Oh.... what a headache!

[dandaman352]

It only happened that one time just now, I don't seem to have anymore. And no it wasen't that much, but it was significant enough for me to actually see it. I don't really think it was from my discus. I think its a combination of uneaten food you might of missed, with the airstone and filter. If I was you, I would try putting them in a different tank with different water and see what happens.

[snowy6]

Thanks and no harm trying. Will have to switch tank cos no spare tank. Uneaten food ..... will monitor anyway, though this pair always clear all their food cos I don't give very much now after the female discus had bloated stomach due to overfeeding.

[dandaman352]

Let me know what happens.

[snowy6]

Female discus (spotted) very sick now. There is some kind of long white marks on the back of her head. Body also look a little grainy. Have stopped using Aqua Fresh Coat but not yet move her to another tank. I put this pair through PP treatment, they are shedding a lot of slime, but very little of that jelly stuff now. Could she be really allergic to Aqua Fresh Coat? Hv yet to identify that. Will keep you all posted.

[dandaman352]

Good luck man.

[ozarowana]

Very strange, they both look in good condition. Trying using a different dechlorinator ASAP? Does the Aqua Fresh Coat have aloe in it? Maybe it's gumming up?

How often do you change the water? Maybe put a sponge filter into the tank.

[snowy6]

Hi ozarowana

Both Merrilyn and you may be right, it could be the problem with this Aqua Fresh Coat and it does contain Aloe. I have stopped using this Fresh Coat after Merrilyn highlighted and I have not been getting this large amount of jelly discharge since. Just a little, yes, but whether it will completely go away, I have yet to know for sure, b'cos this female discus was pretty sick and I am still giving her antibiotic treatment. She's recovering. Have to wait till next week to be sure she doesn't have that discharge anymore, b'cos we will be away for somedays.

But anyway, if she shed just a little bit of that jelly stuff, I guess, it is more acceptable, as compared to that alarming amount I have been seeing.

[snowy6]

Hi

I am still getting this huge chunks and amount of jelly stuff even without using PP, so not the problem with Aqua Fresh Coat. I have given up, thanks for all your patience and input. This is certainly a very mysterious illness.

[samir]

2 mg/l will be ineffective if the tank has a high organic load. how many times did you treat them ?

I've only seen it happen it tanks with a breeding pair and its awfully annoying as all the fry end up getting stuck to it. the pp should have taken care of it, so i'm not sure if you used the correct dose for your water.

maybe give them 3% salt dips if you've already overdone the PP ?

what ph are you at ?

[snowy6]

I usually use between 2-3ml PP to 40 litre water. Occasionally I use 5ml to 20 litre water for a short dip. Did everything I could, salt bath for 10 days, metro, PP, malachite green, stopped using Aqua Fresh coat etc, but no improvement. I haven't move them to another tank though, b'cos the female discus was rather sick and still not quite stable yet. They were on 5 day antibiotic and the jelly discharge came back after I stopped antibiotic.

Most of our local hobbyist I know here don't do PH test, b'cos we do daily water change.

[snowy6]

Good news! I just found out this jelly discharge is external problem b'cos I actually saw it peeling off from the female discus. Its just a guess, I think Merrilyn may be right that I should stop using Aqua Fresh Coat. This conditioner may have coated the body so thick that she kept shedding them at such large amount and before she could finish shedding, I added more Fresh Coat, you think its logical?

I realised that this discus' body looks cleaner now after the peeling and also partly b'cos I have stopped using Aqua Fresh Coat. Sound logical? But too much peeling from their body, would it kill this fish? Any cause for alarm?