miracle leaf

[mich]

hey all :D

just got a couple of packs of miracle leaf delivered...thought id try it out in the 130 L WC bin while ageing to lower the PH. In a powerfilter.
I currently use Discus Buffer which is great but expensive.

Question is, do you think leaf will be enough on its own to down the ph of tap water and keep it there, stable enough.

or do you think i will have to suppliment with D Buffer a little also and if so, it should be fine to mix buffer with leaf shouldnt it . :oops:

I guess ill find out in a few days, plan to add to bucket tonight, just thought id see if anyone has experience with this as a ph buffer???

Thanks guys

[Amazing Amazon]

You will need a KH around 3-4 to stop PH from crashing. Otherwise catappa leaves are excellent!

[mich]

cool thanks for that. i will defo keep eye on kh. got in bucket now but as usual ph gone up in plain tap w over night. will see what difference a night with leaf makes. :roll:

[fishgeek]

seeing as you guy's are in aus and melaleuca sp are native why dont you see if the miracles happen with local produce and start selling them to other countries

many plants can beused to acidify water
melaleuca species have at least had some scientific evidence to prove that the natural products they contain are antibacterial, antifungal and antiviral

what happened to all that buy australian made advertsing they used to promote?


totally off subject now, i also just read something saying almost 90% of australian business is foreign owned!!
most big national companies have been privatised to foreign ownership so get out there and strat promoting home grwon products

sorry
andrew

[mich]

wouldnt have a clue whats native here im from scotland. lol.
update; ph still over 7.5 ,after over night with leaf. i thought leaf would lower kh then ph goes down with it. just a newb though. took the easy road and used discus buffer till now. any help very welcome. ta
ps checking kh now will edit post with readings in 5mins :D
pps hows the weather in London :D
ok. kh from tap = 7 degrees
kh from 18hrs in wc drum with m leaf, = 6 degrees.
i will check and update later tonight . just in case anyone is interested at all.com good reference for me to check anyway.com all learning i guess.
:)

[marg]

A small question : if you tried Melaluca leaves, would you dry them out first?

marg.

[mich]

wouldnt know Marg, maybe drying out first would kill off any nasties on own picked ones, dunno. im lazy, happy with t bag style. lol

[Robdog]

I know where there are heaps of paperbarks but unfortunately there are a few big crocs in the same area.

[flaggy]

robdog, do you have a lot of catappa trees where you are? you could start a business selling leaves to us down south......

[fishgeek]

i would suggest drying any leaf before utilising it

and first seeing what it does in water without fish
then with fish that are not valuable


any plant that has milky sap shouldnt be used as it is more likely to have toxic effects on fish

andrew

[Ben]

Melaluca leaves is that the stuff they use in melafix?

[mich]

me again....over 24hrs now no change to PH still running. colour getting very dark though.
Am i supposed to do somthing else to lower KH first? or should the leaf do that? sorry if silly question, :oops:

[Robdog]

robdog, do you have a lot of catappa trees where you are? you could start a business selling leaves to us down south......

Apparently I do and yes I have thought about that. If I knew what the tree looked like and where to find them consider RobdogsAlmondLeafEmporium.com.au officially in business! :lol:

[fishgeek]

tea tree oil is from melaleuca species , yes
melafix can also be made by diluting neat tea tree oil, i think 1 in 100

rob http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&resnum=0&q=terminalia+catappa&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
just to help your business along, and watch out for the salties hey

my opinion on any leaves reducing kH is that the effect is very mild and in harder waters will not be noticed without significant volumes being used
peat is a more effective natural water softener though again limited value in hard water area's

just my opinions

[marg]

robdog -

go along to your local plant nursery, they will polint you in the right direction.

From what I understand a lot of Councils use them in their Gardens.

marg.

[Robdog]

I had a good poke around the Botanical gardens today to see what I could find. Found a few trees under the Terminalia name but none of them Catappa.

[flaggy]

haha, you could always grow your own then ;)

$22 for a plant: http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/Nuts/Indian%20almond.htm

[Robdog]

Sold out. Not sure how my mate would react if he came home and I'd planted a potential 30m high tree in his backyard.

[mich]

checked again last night and still over 7.5, will check tonight after work.
if still no improvement will go back to discus Buffer and maybe run T bag of leaf in filter for a week or so for other properties ?

Oh well , was worth a try. :(

[Robdog]

Hey Mich,
Ditch the Buffer and use a stocking with some peat in it. The Sera granules are pretty good and ASA has the Eheim peat on sale at the moment I think.

[fishgeek]

garden centre peat is cheaper, and i think there hae been discussions by other australian members about which brands have been used and fonud to be clear of any nitrogenous fertiliser compounds

way cheaper to get a 20 kg bag at the nursery

[tzwms]

mich,
As long as your KH is 7 coming out of the tap, you are not going to have much luck using leaves to alter either the KH or pH. the water is very well buffered. But your water should start looking a nice dark tan. As the leaves leach tanic acid, it is countered by the buffer and at KH 7, you have a lot of buffer.
You might want to look at CO2 injection. If you have a planted tank, your plants will benifit as well.

HTH

[mich]

Ello

yeah i already have sera peat and have tried that also but find it doesnt work greatly in reducing the KH either ? I have added the water with leaf in to tank anyway lowering ph first though ! with buffer.

will see how the fish like it, they sat underneath the new flow into the tank as usual so i guess it wasnt a bad thing :)

My boy has 2 ladies chasing after his attentions at the moment and they are getting pretty frisky, Ill see if this continues or stops after the addition last night. :)

Im hoping they dont want to spawn just yet as my quarantine tank is set up for salt at the moment for another few weeks yet :roll:
may have to rush out n get a new breeding tank ! :shock: if they continue?
At least i know they must be a little happy with the water conditions at least. :D ive have a spare sponge filter running in the tank just in case though :)

[mich]

Oops didnt see the other 2 posts on the next page :oops:

yeah Im gonna try out the peat again (will look at getting the garden centre stuff too)

and if need be Ill use some discus buffer too just to get it down there.

I dont have a planted tank, not sure if I will change in the future ? would like to but want to master the discus keeping a bit longer first...

Id need to upgrde lighting and probably Co2 and gravel 1st, this tank has only been going for about a couple of months i think now since i upgraded so wont be too soon.
Cheers all for the info , much appreciated :D

all going really well anyway, so happy chappy :D

ps, How much light would i need just to pop a few bits of Java moss/fern on some mid level drift wood? Just wondering if it would survive without co2 and low light for the meantime ???????????? just a thought :?

[ILLUSN]

java moss will do better in low light then in high (at least mine does), it will be fine in your tanks, i throw it out by the bucket full in my low light low temp non co2 tank (i use it to soak up nutrient with my turtle). java fern is almost as tough, higher light and CO2 can turn it into a quick growing plant (new leaf every week or 2).

with a kh of 7 i honestly think that peat wont have a huge impact on your ph. i'd be using hydrochloric acid (HCl aka brickies acid) to get your ph down. this will convert your kh to H2O and CO2

[mich]

Wow,

I will defo give the Brickies Acid a go then and the moss/fern .

Im guessing, just add little by little to WC container till desired result?then add to tank.? or is there a more scientific way to calculate ?

I would be ok to still use leaf or peat for their effects, black water etc along side the Acid?

Thanks heaps for the info.. Im sure the fishes will appreciate it too :P

Im getting there, still a lot to learn though, brill forum peeps..couldnt have survived this long with the discus without it.Or at least the Discus wouldnt have survived ! :D

sorry if i rant on a bit :wink:

[ILLUSN]

just add 1ml at a time, keep trrack of it, next time you fill up just use the same ammont.
the HCL wont completely remove your Kh, just lower it a little, i'd still use peat and miricle leaf leaves as they add humic acids, tannins and other goddies to the water which i sware help boost discus health.

[mich]

Great
thanks heaps.

Got 5 litre bottle of HCl at lunch break, $17.00

unless i have to use half a bottle per WC then i reckon that will save heaps from Buffer use. :D

Again, cheers for the info :D :D

[FNQ]

robdog, do you have a lot of catappa trees where you are? you could start a business selling leaves to us down south......

Apparently I do and yes I have thought about that. If I knew what the tree looked like and where to find them consider RobdogsAlmondLeafEmporium.com.au officially in business! :lol:

They call them beach almonds up here and they grow on every beach that's local to Cairns.