Black Discus... :-S

[benjohnson]

Ok... I was waiting this one out as I wasn't sure what to make of it... but I think i may have to upgrade this problem to "Emergency" status !!

My Breeding male, has in the last 2 weeks, gone very dark. and has slime coming off of him.

Now before everyone starts jumping up and down about the plague, i don't think it is .... He is still eating ok , not hiding , the slime is coming off in strands, and is mainly stuck to his fins . Also, he constantly swims with his nose in the air, and with his top fin not "up" as usual.

Its an odd combination of symptoms, because he eats, and can swim normally if he wants to... but then is always very dark ( almost black ) and has this gunk coming off of him.

The lady that is in the tank with him is fine, is swimming normally, eating normally and isn't dark .

Water params are normal, 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 5 nitrate, temp is at 87.6 Degrees Farenheit at the moment.

Any ideas what I should do with him? He might well be fine, and feigning injury ( he sometimes does that , but this has gone on for about 2 weeks now) This is the same fish I have always had a problem with, he keeps getting spooked and smacking his head on stuff .. could it be related?

[benjohnson]

One other thing, the fish in question is the one in my avatar when he was his normal self just so you have a comparison

[ILLUSN]

I wouldn't take any chances, check your ph, if it's dropped, give your tank a 50% water change and CLEAN YOUR FILTER!. if not get him onto a corse of metro, if he's still eating, mix it into his food, mine always respond well to this. if you cant get metro get onto seaview aquariums (sponsor) while they still have stock of octozin and give him a treatment or 2.

also try adding a bit of salt to the water to ease the stress on the fish 2 teaspoons/40L

[benjohnson]

Cheers Illusn , will give it a go

Ben

[Merrilyn]

Discus usually respond to an irritant in the water just the way you have described Ben.

They darken up, and produce excess mucus in an effort to rid their body of the irritant. It can be caused by a parasite, or it can be as simple as something to do with the water that is upsetting them.

As we don't really know the cause, best thing is to take the simple approach first. Do a water change, in fact do several water changes over the next few days and see if that help settle things down. Secondly, add some salt to the water, at the rate of 1 heap teaspoon of rock salt or cooking salt per 40 litres of water.

If these simple measures don't make any difference, then we may need to look further, but give this a try first.

[benjohnson]

Did a water change last night, put some aquarium salt in there... I'd say he looks a little better this morning,... although he still cant swim upright normally,

He keeps putting his belly / manly stuff onto various objects in the tank ( filter, cone) then just sits there with his manhood resting on it. Then when he tries to swim off he falls over a bit then rights himself , and swims normally, then does it all over again!


Is it possible this is perhaps a more parasitic / internal infection that could also be affecting his swim bladder??

[mistakes r crucial]

Have you used any meds in the water recently Ben? I burnt one of my females a couple of years ago by stupidly pouring undiluted Sterazin into a tank and she swam straight through it. Symptoms sound identical, just lay around the bottom of the tank for a few days, slime coat coming off in streams and was as black as the ace of spades.
MAC

[benjohnson]

Hi guys,

MAC :- Hadn't used any meds, or anything in the water in the last couple of weeks prior to posting about this problem, other than the usual RO Mix.

I have added salt to his tank, and given him a course of medication ( All I had was esha Discus Disease Treatment) That has perked him up a bit.

However, he is still flopping around all over the place , he is almost in an arch on the floor, tail and tip of his nose are on the floor and his body is arched up. He will get up after 10 seconds or so and swim around a bit more, then do it again... really odd behaviour.

Has anyone got any more ideas?? Worried I may lose him at this rate....

[ILLUSN]

i'd stick him in a bare bottom hospital tank and bump the temp up to 30-31 degrees, give him daily water changes(25-30%), and keep up the salt, also watch him closely for any signs of paracites (un healthy droppings etc)

[garikfox]

Id like to point out a important thing here I think you all dont know is "Discus" do not like salt it does them more harm then good, There one of very few fish that can NOT be in a tank with salt(s). Very bad.

Just a quick FYI. :wink:

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Garik,

I don't know where you're getting your information from about Discus and salt mate but that is nonsense.
MAC

[garikfox]

Hi Garik,

I don't know where you're getting your information from about Discus and salt mate but that is nonsense.
MAC

Far as Ive been taught Salt is bad for Discus and a few other freshwater species. hmmm

Guess im wrong then.

[samir]

does not sound good, try put a picture up if possible

[Merrilyn]

Ben are there any open wounds on the body of the fish. Anything like a small lump that has burst open?

[benjohnson]

Can't see anything like you mention merrilyn.

Yesterday , although he had very big dark stress bars on him, In between his stress bars he had his normal colour back. He is still flopping about... but that's a good sign i think ?!?

Really don't know what to make of it, very odd behavior.

I've kept going with the salt... tempted to try some myaxazin or similiar to clear out any bacteria and stuff. Maybe worth me trying a swim bladder treatment also i think? ( Not at the same time obviously ;-) )

What do you think?

[Merrilyn]

The curved spine is usually associated with fish TB but there are usually open wounds as well. So perhaps it's something different altogether.

I do think it's time to try some medication. Unforftunately we're flying blind here, cos I have absolutely no idea what may be wrong. Even scouring my medical books, I can't find anything with similar symptoms.

The Myaxazin is probably a good start and then it's going to be a waiting game till he either improves or starts showing some other symptoms.

[benjohnson]

Hmm Fish TB ... havnt really come across that before. Can it be passed to humans ?

The problem I have is i am away next week, and I have someone fishsitting. All they are going to do is feed them though , i dont think i Can ask them to give medicne aswell... I can try ....

[mistakes r crucial]

It can be Ben but it is rare. However, I would still keep hands and arms out of the water until you find out one way or another what's going on. Be especially careful if you have any cuts or abrasions on your hands or arms.
MAC

[Merrilyn]

As MAC said, yes it can sometimes be passed on to humans, but not as a lung condition, it's a skin condition in humans. But it really is rare, so don't panic just yet.

Other than that Ben, how is the fish looking today?

[benjohnson]

When I looked at him this morning he does look a little better, he seemed to swim a bit better and came to the top of the tank begging for food when i walked in the room, which is a good !!

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens, Ill keep up with the medicine and try and get someone to keep doing it next week while I am away

[ILLUSN]

UPDATE?
its been almost 2 months?

[benjohnson]

That funny... you ask for an update on the evening that he passes on :-( He seemed to get better for a time , but he deteriorated quickly over the last couple of weeks and went yesterday evening. The bizzarre thing was , that as he was doing that , the female in the tank with him ( They were a long standing pair and I now have no idea what i am going to do about finding her a male) ...... laid eggs .... something that she hasnt done in nearly 6 months . Very strange behaviour.... Will be sad to see him go, he was a very big fish , and very friendly too :-( :-( :-(


It's amazing how attached you get to them , i was so upset last night , and i am getting bummed out writing this message to !

Guess I'll be needing to find a new avatar picture too :-(

[sammigold]

sorry that you lost your fish...Why get a new avatar? I would keep it in memory of... He was a beautiful fish.

[benjohnson]

Yeah true .... Thanks sammigold :-)

[Merrilyn]

Sorry to hear that Ben.

He was a lovely fish. :(

[benjohnson]

Thanks Merrilyn...

Can anyone suggest what would be best in regards to getting her another male? She's in a tank on her own at the moment so I don't want to leave her that way . Like I say she is showing no signs of whatever it was that got the male, in fact ... quite the opposite ( Merrilyn, i dont know if you remember a while ago we spoke about these two not laying eggs for months on end, she laid her 1st batch since we spoke6 months ago, last night, while he passed on ?!?! )

If I were to buy a male of similiar size to what he was , do you think i could safely introduce him and they would pair up , or is life not going to be that easy ???

[Merrilyn]

Discus will accept another mate.

My suggestion is not to put him into her tank, cos for sure she will attack him. Are you able to move her to another tank for a few days, and let him settle into the breeding tank.

Then once he's comfortable, introduce her to the breeding tank, but keep a close eye on them for the next few days.

I could go really well or really badly. I hope it goes well because it sounds like she's in breeding mode again.

[benjohnson]

It would be difficult to house her elsewhere unless she went in the display tank, but a fish of her size would completely overshadow everyone else.... it may be ok ....

Could i put a sperator down the middle of the tank for the first few day's, would that have the same effect??? Its made out of egg crate so they can see through it though ....

[Merrilyn]

Yes indeed, that would certainly work.

You'll be able to see their reaction to each other after a few days.

[ILLUSN]

Sorry mate didn't mean to jinx you, I'll keep my mouth shut from now on.

[benjohnson]

lol ILLUSN not your fault , hes been ill for so long it was probably for the best anyway

That's good to know that will work Merrilyn. I will have to wait until the weekend to give me enough time to change lots of water to get rid of any meds and nasties, and travel to the shop I know which has big decent quality fish which is about an hour's drive away. Hopefully she wont get to mopey and get ill herself in the mean time !! :-)

Thanks all for kind words and advice !


Ben