Medical

[cleo]

Hi I have recently bought some Discus and one of them has a very very fat tummy. Not sure what to do and thought someone out there might be able to advise. People talk about worms, flukes etc but I can't find out haw to treat them maybe someone can help. Thanks

[scott bowler]

hi cleo welcome to the forum .Is your fish eating ? Does it look healthy ? I recently lost a RGD that had the same thing I think. It was healthy eating but it had a bloted tummy.What colour is its poo? the fish that i had with the problum had white jelly poo whitch i used to think was a worm prob. but after treating it for worms it still had the problem .So i treated it with antibiotics how ever this didnt sem to work .so i stoped treating it and left it for a while how ever after a few weks he had died. so i think it a guessing game some times .try to get back to us with the simptoms and we will do our best to help mate good luck ...scott

[cleo]

Hi Scott, I haven't really noted anything other than a slight protrusion from the fish hence the comment could it be worms or is the fish full of eggs. I am really new to this and have a lot to learn. Just reading through the medical stuff re worms and it becomes a bit mind boggling. People talk about levi-something and other sorts of treatment on that is for birds one for pigs and someelse told me to get one that is used for sheep. WHAT DO I USE and where do I get it from. I live in Melbourne and there are a few big places like Pet warehouse etc. Do I separate the fish from the others if they have worms do I just vaccuum them up or what. Or is it all trial and error?

[scott bowler]

hi cleo most of us that keep discus worm them the thing i us it BIG L witch is levamisole (it is a poultry & pig wormer) i worm my fish 3-4 times a year .this is mostly becouse i buy a lot of fish.But if you only have a few and dont add fish all the time then you dont need to do it as offten.i use the big l for a week then i use prazi to. just to be on the safe side .there is no need to separate the fish if that fish has worms then i would worm all of them.But if your fish is only bloted it may not be worms i would worm anyway they may need it .but keep an eye on this guy and see how it goes . good luck with it .
if you buy the big L make shore it is sykes BIG L wormer for poultry and pigs some of the others have glucose in them and it not good .as for the prazi i use worm rid all the best with it scott

[Bill T]

Cleo.
The two things I use to clear my fish of worms etc. are a product called Octozin, and Aqua Master Fluke & Tapeworm Tablets (which is basically praziquantel).
You should be able to buy the Aqua master product at your lfs (by the way, where abouts in Melbourne do you live?). If you can't buy any Octozin, I have plenty & would be happy to give you some.

(I think the Octozin in basically levamisole, but in a fish friendly easy to use form.)

I think it's worth having a long look at the fish before you buy them so you can hopefully avoid buying problems such as what you have described.

It may be a worm infestation causing a blockage, in which case your fish is likely to be very hungry, but never put on weight.

Or it could be a range of other problems - constipation, bacterial infection, a tumor or cyst.

I would be trying the two products I have mentioned first, which I think is a good general poilcy if you have got new fish anyway, and then see what happens.

Always leave plenty of time before different medications so you don't get adverse reactions between medications that can become toxic to your fish.

Also helps to have a hospital tank if, say, you think your fish has a bacterial infection & you decide to experiment with antibiotics, you don't risk your biological filter and the other fish.

Good luck & welcome to Discus Forum

[Kingkat]

I would also try giving it a dose of epsom salts.
Cheers,
David.

[samir]

what are you feeding it

[scott bowler]

bill T im sory but its my understanding that Octozin isnt a worm treatment it is a antibiotic it is more like (metro).were the levamisole is a worm treatment .I may be wrong but thats how i have always seen it mate . sorry only IMO

[samir]

octozin targets flagellated protozoa, similar to metro.
aquamaster fluke and tapeworm tablets target flukes and tapeworms
the levisomething will get most of the worms.

[cleo]

Hi Kingkat and Samir, I am feeding them pellet discus food as I am not quite game enogh to try Beefheart or frozen worms as I have been told that they can cause problems. What quantity of epsom salts should I put in a 6x2x2?
Thank you to all of the people that have replied it is good to know that there is help around. Thanks.

[samir]

don't feed them for a day or two and they will probably poop it out. if you keep feeding only dry food, they will bloat. i have tested it enough to be 100% certain.
beefheart is ok, brine shrimp is okay. I'm a bit confused about bloodworms but Merrilyn uses it so they should be fine. a combination of foods is what is needed.

[the german]

can be a digestion broblem as well,sometimes discus dont get enough
fibre (i think thats whats called in english)and get constapated.

[Merrilyn]

Hi Bill. I think Sterazin is the one you're thinking of for internal parasites.

I've just taken this off the Waterlife website:-
STERAZIN is used or the control of gill and body parasites which cause fish to flick when no symptoms are visible to the unaided eye. STERAZIN will also aid the control of internal parasites such as Round Worm, Thread Worm, and Intestinal Worm. In order to destroy the parasites in all stages of their life cycle you will need to use the product on days 1, 3, 6, 8 and 10. STERAZIN may also be used to aid the sterilisation of aquatic plants and is highly biodegradable.

Octozin is the one we use for Hole-in-the-Head and hex as it treats internal parasites.

Both are excellent products.

Cleo, I'm very much in favour of the simple treatment first, so I'd start by adding 1 heap teaspoon of epsom salts per 40 litres of tank water, and see if that moves the lump.

If no improvement after 2 days, do a big water change, and begin treating for worms. Use Levamisole or Sterazin as Bill suggested, which will treat roundworms and threadworms. Follow that up a couple of weeks later with a tapeworm treatment, containing prazi.

[Bill T.]

Didn't have much luck with the Sterazin. Not only was it easy on the fish, but on the gill flukes as well. When I put the doseage up on Waterlifes advice it really damaged my fish!!!

As for the Octozin - well, a different story altogether. These two blue turq's that I got from a dubious source were struggling to thrive. It got to the stage I would find them floating ontop of the water after dashing around the tank. Next minute they would look fine.

So I treated with Octozin. Within minutes one of them was writhing around on the bottom of the tank, and then it passed this enormous white slimy looking worm. The other one spent about 20 minutes scratching its bum and passing long white pooh.

After this they became very healthy, put on weight and started breeding.

I dosed the tank again after buying a couple of pigeon bloods from OAFI, but there was no apparent effect. My fish have been healthy and happy ever since the Octozin.

[Merrilyn]

Thanks for that Bill. Yes I do remember that you had a lot of trouble with your fish a while ago. Wonder if we'd be better just using Levamisole for internal worms.

I found a very interesting article on Levamisole written by the University of Florida. I'll make it a sticky in the Illness and Medications section.

Glad you hade more success with the Octozin. It seems to cure a multitude of ailments. I always keep some on hand for emergencies. :P

[cleo]

Interesting reading guys 'cause I tried the salt and lost two little fellows and one of the big ones was lying on the bottom of the tank gaping and then would arise and swim frantically around and then drop again. Tried to find the L one but had no luck on Sunday will try again tomorrow as I'm not working. Did a water change last night and they seem a little better today but what dosage should I use as I spoke to a lady atLFS and she said to be very careful with the L (can't remember how to spell it) one as if you overdose it will do a lot of harm.

[Merrilyn]

Cleo, what sort of salt did you use?

Epsom salts should definately not have that effect on any fish. It's just a very mild laxative.

[samir]

The university of Florida has some very useful articles on fish health. Here is the link http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/TOPIC_Fish_Reproduction_and_Health . I would recommend giving it a good read. It will take an hour at most, but will give you a better understanding of what you're supposed to do and will help you avoid medication disasters in the future.