Big L Wormer for Poultry & Pigs & Other Worming Quer

[TW]

I have a new discus (my first). It's been in the tank since Friday. I now know he should have friends, so I am getting 2 more soon (they're ordered).

He is shy & hides at the back & hasn't really eaten. LFS told me that I should worm discus either monthly or bi-annually - he said that different people recommended different frequency. He sold me Aqua Master Fluke & Tapeworm tablets. Before jumping in using this, I've been reading up here about worming treatments and see that I should first treat with Levamisole (Sykes Big L Pig and Poultry wormer - Dose rate is 7ml per ten litres of tank water). After that I should follow up with a treatment of prazi. I'm not sure what "prazi" is, but the Aqua Master product contains "praziquantel 100mg" so I'm guessing that is actually Prazi ???

I've ordered the Big L from 2easy.com.au - so I should have it in a day or so. But I have the Qua Master Prazi Fluke & Tapeworm tablets now. Should I wait for Big L & follow the suggested sequence, or should I medicate with what I have at hand now & do the Big L afterwards?

Once I have dosed for treatment - should I repeat monthly or 6 monthly?

Are these worm treatments also good for apistos?

Thanks in advance.

[ILLUSN]

you can dose prazi first if yu like, i find t a pain cause 48hrs later you NEED to do a water change and clean your filers and the treatment (and clean up) needs to be repeated 1 week later. big L just needs a repeat dose 3 weeks later. so if you start with big l your worming takes 4 weeks
week 1Big L
week2 Prazi
week 3Prazi
week4 Big L

if you start with prazi it takes 6 weeks

week 1 prazi
week 2 prazi
week 3 big L
week 6 big L

just my oppinion though other people may do it differantly.

[fishgeek]

read the thread below on levamisol, it seems someone is going to have to correct the mistake in dosing

dose for levamisol in water is 2mgs/l
others have suggested that is 1ml per 7 litres of water when using the big L product, double check that though

praziquantel will treat tapeworm and fluke, i think the sequence of treatment is to so with the fact that nematodes are more likely problematic than tapeworms, so treat the biggest issue first

ideally look at feaces fro a diagnosis, then treat the problem

though in your case i would treat with what you have then the next when the levamisol arrives

andrew

fine in apisto's too

[scott bowler]

hi tankwatcher i dont think it will mater if you use the prazi first but just dont do them at the same time . use the prazi and do water change then in a week use the big L but the dose you have there is wrong its BIG L is 1 ml per 7L .as for the apistos i dont know that one some else will have to answer that sorry. oh and i worm my fish about 3 times a year but only if i get new fish and i do often hehe hope it helps

[Kingkat]

Tankwatcher, Ask Thomas on here about worming apisto's. He or one of the other knowladgeable apisto keepers should know as I think they are touchy with medications.
Cheers,
David.

[TW]

Thanks for continued advice. As he started to eat (so far only bloodworms) I thought I'd wait till I received the levamisol & until his 2 tankmates are in with him (so all would be treated together).

So, I'm ready to dose when I get home tonight.
dose for levamisol in water is 2mgs/l
others have suggested that is 1ml per 7 litres

Sorry to be so dopey :oops: but I'm not sure I understand how to measure 2mg. I understand the 1ml per 7litres measurement, so I guess I'll use that one.

2 new discus moved in yesterday. Only able to get a photo of 1 so far, as the other was still hiding. There was a little bit of aggression between the one pictured below & the original discus, but it didn't seem too bad. Anyway, here's the picture. I like him even more that my 1st one. :D

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/165L/000_1307.jpg

I hope I can managed to learn how to look after these guys right !!!

[fishgeek]

that is the problem with the internet and medicating ne's own animals

the correct dose of medication is 2 mgs of levamisol in each litre of tank water

now that depends on the concentration of the product/s used
with a liquid the solution you are buying is not going to be all levamisol, it will be some dilution of the product in a stable form

read the label on the bottle, from what i remember(and thats means it is probably wrong) there was something like 14.8g/l or % on the label of the product that i believe you are purchasing

that equates to 14800 mgs in 1000mls
or 14.8mgs/ml

if we used 14.8mgs or 1 ml in 7 litres of tank water we then have very close to the suggested 2mgs/l of tank water required

so depending on the intial concentration of the product you are using your calculations maybe different

this is why dose's written down as 1 teaspoon of X are potentially very dangerous

andrew

[Dat]

HI,
that's a nice looking discus :)

ps. i think you're on the right track with deworming.

[TW]

Thanks fishgeek & dat
there was something like 14.8g/l or % on the label of the product that i believe you are purchasing Very good - it's 14g/l - so you're calculations were just right. Thanks so much.

The schedule I'll follow is:-

week 1Big L
week2 Prazi
week 3Prazi
week4 Big L

The Big L went in tonight. How many days do you need to leave it before you can do a water change. I wouldn't want to do a change too soon, and dilute the medication before time.

I also soaked their bloodworms in some of the Big L and all the fish ate some.

Thanks in advance.

[fishgeek]

contact time for 2mgs/l dose is suggested as 24 hrs so anything after that should be fie for water changes

i tend to just do my usual schedule when i use levamisol

andrew

[scott bowler]

it a good idea to go and get a syring to get the dose right just goto a vet or doctor and ask for at lest a 10m one most will be ok with giving you one . as Andrew is a vet he is spot on with the doseing too thanks Andrew

[TW]

as Andrew is a vet he is spot on with the dosing too thanks Andrew That is good to know and yes, his help was so valuable. I've already dosed the first Big L, so I will get syringe for the next dose. Thanks Scott.

In fact, you guys on the forum have all been great, helping me out with what to do.

My next question is in relation to next week when I dose the Prazi. Exactly how full on is the filter clean out I must do 48 hrs after dosing. I had always thought you shouldn't clean out your filters fully at any one time, as it would diminish your good bacteria. Current tank is an Aqua-one 850, with one of those trickle filters above the tank. My normal filter clean would mean that I would change only rinse out 1/2 the filter pads at any one time. But I think what you are all telling me here is that I must rinse the media & change all the pads at the end of 48 hours.

BTW, I know to rinse it in the old tank water (not tap water).

Have I got the filter cleaning right?

[fishgeek]

i dont clean the filters in a special way at all and in fact i would discourage a overzealous cleaning

i assume the suggestion of cleaning out the filters is to do with the fact that egg's(and encysted larva stages) are not killed by the levamisol

so egg's maybe found within the filter media


my take on this is the whole point of repeat treatment is to allow these drug insensitve stages to develop to drug sensitive stages, hence the suggestion of treatments at certain intervals

equally i think worming is over done, healthy fish will not (in my inexperienced opinion) die from worms
i think i read a wild captive study that found worms in only 7 % of wild fish faeces, i take that to mean that 93% of the population can sort out simple things themselves

andrew
i have never kept discus just apisto's

[ILLUSN]

i just change the fine filter floss, and give the biomedia a quick dip in the tank water that i removed, just enough too get any loose stuff off, you'd be suprised how many dead worms you can find.

[TW]

I'm reviving this thread, as on Saturday I bought a Super Alenquer Discus. Decided I'd better start a precautionary worming treatment. Before starting, I read Merrylin's new sticky about Levamisole (??? spelling). It said lemivsole is light sensitive & to turn lights out during treatment, which I didn't know before. Lights were off from Saturday afternoon until Monday night.

At first I wasn't worried about S.Alenquer not eating - thought it was just a settling in issue. But for the last 2 days he has been dropping loads of white jelly like poos - so I guess he does has worms.

Tonight I'm putting the prazi in. Should lights be off during the prazi treatment too? If yes, for how long?

Also, once I'm back on the Big L treatment (week 4 of treatment) how long do you think I should leave the lights out for? I couldn't see in the article how long was required, only that lights should be off.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

I hope this guy gets better soon.

Thanks in advance.

[ILLUSN]

24 hrs should be plenty, dont expect the same ammount of worms to come out on the 2nd treatment.

[TW]

Thanks. So is it a good thing to see those worms coming out in poo? Does it mean they're being cleared out & thus, my S.Alenquer is on his way to being cured?

Thanks for advice.

[ILLUSN]

Yep, if you worm them and they start passing worms your fish are well on their way to being cured, just dont forget the follow up treatments, otherwise withing a month or 2 you'll be right back where you started.

[TW]

Thanks again. I'll make sure do do the full 4 week treatment. Glad to hear the wormy poo means he should be on the raod to recovery. Still hasn't eaten a thing since Saturday though. His stripes are very dark - does that mean he's stressed?

[TW]

The good news is that he just ate some blood worms (1st thing I've seen him eat). The bad news, while eating the blood I can see a long green poo hanging from him. What does green poo mean?

[scott bowler]

have you been feeding them any flake ? it could be from that

[TW]

Hi Scott

It is only my new S.Alenquer with the funny poos. A couple of days ago it was long white & jelly looking & today it is green. I've only had him a week & tonight was the first time I have seen him eat anything at all. Maybe he has snacked on plants or the algae wafer I put in for the corys & otos - but I haven't seen him eat those either. I also left a small piece of cucumber in the tank today & don't know who ate it, but it was gone when I got home.

He was doing the green poo before he had his 1st official meal tonight.

I was really happy to see him eat - 1st some blood worms & 2nd some beef heart mix. He is still the worst eater & needs to be a little more aggressive, but at least he ate a little bit.

So, you don't think the green poo is anything to worry about?

[scott bowler]

yeah i dont think the green poo is a worry i am guessing but i would say he has had some of the algae wafer .just keep an eye on it and see if there is any other changes hehe its good that he is eating scott

[TW]

I guess I got happy too soon. He hasn't eaten since Friday. I thought once I had the breakthrough last Friday, that all would be fine & he'd be eating like the pigs his tank mates are. :(