Bullying

[DiscusEden]

Hi guys,

Having some issues in the tank and would appreciate your advice:

In the 6 ft (540L) I have 5 discus. 2 of them have paired & are pushing the others away. I was OK with this, but now 4 of them are picking on the RGD, who has been hiding & not eaten for 2 weeks, after being the first at the food previously. These are all M - L fish.

In the 80L I have 5 juveniles, ranging from 6-9cm (I think), but all small. Getting on OK, but the RGD started out a little larger & appear to be growing faster than the precious albino yellows - though they're coming on well.

In the 75L I have 2 turqs - these are the biggest fish of the lot, arrived yesterday (yay!) and are in QT.

I put prazi in the 6ft & 80L yesterday & was told to leave the new turqs for at least 2 weeks before worming, as they have just been done.

The RGD tried to come out at mealtime tonight, but was picked on by both of the non-paired fish as well as the pair & driven back to the back of the tank. Planning to get live BS tomorrow.

Is there a better configuration I could have here? I was wondering about putting the juvies in the 6ft & the pair in the 80L?

Should I be doing anything else? Worming with Big L? If so, how long to leave it before I do? The only thing making me think worms is the change in behaviour & that I had another fish in this tank die of worms/hex.

Sorry for the long post - any help appreciated! :)

[DiscusEden]

OK, now everyone but the pair is sulking & hiding.

What I'm thinking is that I either chuck the juvies in the 6ft & put the pair in the 80L, or figure Fishrocks are very good & throw the turqs in & put the pair in the 75L.

Any help or ideas please?

[sammigold]

I reckon Juvies in the 6ft as they will grow out better with more tank space. JMO

having said that 80litres would really only be big enough for one pair. going by the 1 adult discus per 40litre rule and probably wouldnt give them much room. so maybe you need to get a 4ft tank for your pairs. LOL

How about putting the one fish that is being picked on in with the juvies. Maybe you can get him back eating etc and most larger discus will not hassle little juvies.

Just an idea. It means means just moving one fish, but you will need to think about getting a bigger tank for the juvies to go in.

My favourite idea

you could put the juvies in the 6ft and leave the others in there too and that may stop the bullying because there will be too many to choose from to bully so it spreads it out a little.

good luck,
sammi

[DiscusEden]

Thanks Sammi!

I'll do all the w/c's, then think about starting to move fish. Maybe put the juvies in the 6ft first, see how that goes overnight & move the pair out tomorrow if necessary?

The reason that they're in their own tank at the moment is that I read something about larger discus giving off hormones that stunt their growth. Any truth in that?

[sammigold]

To tell you the truth discuseden, I do not know. I have heard that also come to think of it. Im not sure of the truth of it. I am sure that some of our breeders will know the answer to that.

It may be one of those debatable things like the environment vs genetics of peppering in pigeonbloods.

[ivo]

Hello DE, i just read your post. Couple of things:
- I know that batch of turq. you bought from Fishrock because i bought one too. Thats the one you said it looks nice on the picture. I didnt quarantine it first i put it straight into my community tank and absolutely no problem. In fact, i have never quarantine FishRocks discus and after so many i bought from them i have never come across any disease, worms, whatsoever.
- Mixing small discus with large i guess it depends on how much you worry about it. In Jan i bought three small albinos and put them in the community tank with all my large discus. Yes initially they were a bit frightened but somehow the big discus never bother to pick on them (maybe they are so small the big fellows can't be bothered). In regards to hormones bit, i dont know but these three albinos are growing and living well with the other big ones.
Thats my personal experience and hope that gives you some comfort.

[DiscusEden]

Thanks Ivo,

Very comforting & much appreciated! I'm glad you got one of the turqs too - they were very impressive, don't you think?

I was told 8 discus in the 6 ft. If I take the pair out (the bullies!) that leaves 3 adults, so either all 5 juvies or the 2 turqs I think. Or maybe take the pair out & shove all the rest in & wait 'till I get another pair to take out as well? The alenquer has been shimmering I think...

Sorry, being indecisive & looking for someone else to take some decision...

[DiscusEden]

These are the fish.

I've put the RGD in with the juveniles.

The plan is to put the turqs and the juvies in the 6ft after Wednesday - maybe Sunday, which is my next day off work, so they have a day to settle before the lights go off.

If there are any problems with this plan ( 7 adults, 6 juvies in the 6 ft), please tell me before I do it! As the juvies get bigger, I'll probably get some of the RGDS out - have 4 now - and the pair may get their own tank if they keep this up - I might need a bigger tank! (Again!)

Thanks guys!

[fish_r]

the tanks looking really good now DE :wink:
and some nice looking fish too...

[DiscusEden]

Thanks fish_r!

It's all coming on, but you're not off the hook yet - still need heaps more advice!

[fish_r]

the lighting looks sooooo much better now DE and looks like filling it up with plants has fixed ur algae problem too . u have lots of nice hidey spots for ur fish now too
have u got ur Co2 running now ?

[DiscusEden]

Nope.

But the plants seem to be coming on well anyway since I increased the lighting & ferts on your advice (thanks!) and got some fast growers in there to soak up the excess ferts (thanks again!). Hardly any algae now - didn't even clean the glass this week. Thankyou - but you're still not off the hook yet!

[fish_r]

lol, as u know i will try to help any way i can :wink:
glad to c it's comming on nicely now 8-)

[Fish Rock Aquariums]

Hi DE,

from what i can gather you have 3 tanks?

-the big display tank is the tank your having problems with? as in all fish seemed sulking and hiding?

-a tank with the turq pair? (no problems)

-a tank of juvies? (no problems)

if this is the case i would not recomend moving anything from the big tank and mixing them with the other tanks. simple reason is if every fish seems affected by something then mixing fish could make the problems worse, either by spreading to other tanks, or making other fish ill if added to display tank.

if you do want to move, make sure you know what the problem is exactly and only mix n match when you know its defineately fixed.

as for the worming, what i meant was they dont need to be wormed again for a while, its just that if your worried that it wasn't done properly then leave it for at least 2 weeks before re-worming.

hope that makes sense, just basically dont contaminate other tanks.

HTH,

Ron

[DiscusEden]

Thanks Ron,

I don't think they're sick in the 6ft, or the other 2.

But the pair in the 6ft are laying eggs regularly & when they do, they chase the other 3 in there mercilessly. 2 of the remaining 3 might be pairing, although the male seems to expend most of his energy trying to shoulder in on the original pair.

The original pair and the possible pair are all picking on the RGD whenever she tries to come out from the back of the tank, so she hasn't been out long enough to eat in 2 weeks.

Given that she is so stressed (I assume) and hasn't been eating, I wormed them as a precautionary step. I haven't seen white poo, dropping weight, or any flicking, so have no reason to think they needed it.

I was hoping that if I got some more fish in it might break up the behaviour before the RGD gets into real trouble. No signs of illness other than hiding evident at this point.

Any ideas?

[ivo]

Hi DE, those red turq. are looking nice and they do look so much more colourful once settling in. Did you say the others are RGD? is it the poor picture quality or am i seeing black peppers on the forehead and fins?

[Fish Rock Aquariums]

ok DE,

just looks like i mis-read your post, i thought you had some sick fish and were thinking of mixing them around.

in that case i would move the pair to the breeding tank, move the new pair into display tank.

if your little rgd continues to get smashed in the display tank move him to your juvie tank.

if the rgd is the biggest in the juvie tank then it will pick up and recover pretty quickly. if the rgd is by far the smallest in the juvie tank then it is possible that it will continue to be picked on by the established group.

LOL probably nothing you didn't already know but thats what i would do.

cheers,
Ron

[DiscusEden]

Thanks Ron!

What I did last night was to move the RGD to the juvie tank - and she's not much bigger than the biggest in there now. You're right. I just put in some BS & she's eating again! Even pushed the biggest juvie out of the way to get to it! Yay!

The plan now is to move all of the juvies & the turqs to the 6ft next days off - either Sunday or Monday - and if they're pesky, move the pair out.

Scott said the 75 or 80L might be too small for the pair, and I'd be better off with 150L. I costed tanks today, but it'll be 4 weeks at least before I'm ready to get another. (Puppy issues). So that's why I'm thinking I'll wait to see if there's problems before moving them to a too small tank. Sound OK?

Oh, Ivo. Yes, yes, yes and yes. Thanks!

[scuba123cliff]

Tank looks nice can you tell me what plants you have
Cliff

[ivo]

Hi DE, From what i have read on this forum true RGD does not have any black peppering. If they do then they are red melon instead which is supposed to be cheaper. I hope i am not being too confronting here and not here to critise your fish.

[DiscusEden]

Thanks Cliff!

I'll try. Probably get many of the names wrong. There's:

anubias barteri
anubias nana
anubias curly leaf something
another anubias - forget what
lots of wisteria
might be milfoil - common as muck, came free with the wisteria
red lotus
bylaxa japonica
amazon swords
apogostemnon (pretty sure I got that wrong, but it flowers a lot)
something rubra - came from ASA, one of the specialty swords

I think that might be it.

Oh, and I have no self control. 0. So all of them are now in the 6ft. Yaaaaayyyy!

The turqs look huge! I thought they might be bigger than the others, but the smaller one is dwarfing the PB (previously biggest). Yaaaayyyy!

And the whiptails have laid again on the filter intake. So when this lot hatches I'll move them over to the 80L orca tank. Should I move the babies with the parents?