HELP...DISCUS IS IN TROUBLE!!!!

[Andy123]

hey all
please if u can reply to this message please do so right away as i need serious help!!!
i hav had a discus for about 2 yrs and hav had no problems with him. until a few weeks ago. he somehow got gill fluke. the water at this time was good and i had not added any other fish into the tank. how could he hav got it??
i treated him 3 times now and each time it would get a little bit better and then the next day turn bad again. i hav done many water tests and most of them were good.
tonight i did another water test and the rusults not so good...
ammonia:0ppm
nitrate:0ppm(the tank is planted and has been running for 18months)
nitrites:0.25ppm(is this bad)
ph:6.4
temp:31
i used worm-rid when treating this and i hav done my w/c(25% a week) and hav been increasing the temp to 32*C. what else hav i got to do to finally get rid of this fluke. i came home today and it was alot worse than it was 1.5hours before.
the fish in the tank are:
15x baby kribensis fry
12xsailfin molly fry
2x boesmani rainbows, 1xbn
1xdiscus
the kribensis fry will be moved out this weekend.
please help me!!!!!
thanx all
fishkid

[the german]

hi andy

gill fluekes will be on your fish every minute of his life,normally they are no problem only when your fish get stressed then it can go bad.
first of all your lucky that with only one discus you not had any probs over two years,discus are shool fish so he will be under stress every time :(
you should have a look at the stickys for gill flueke treatment.
and please get him some company,at least another three discus.

michael

[Andy123]

Hi
Sorry i forgot to mention he had 2 other discus with him but they died a few months ago. One of worms and one was killed by an aggressive fish:(.
I recently bought a younger discus who died last weekend because this discus attacked him before i divided the tank up. I now have a divider so i can add new discus and take some precautions.
I think the flukes started effecting him when i fed them live worms for a week. Has this contributed at all?

[the german]

the attack of the other discus cant be the cause of your last discus.
maybe you should look for another source where you can get good quality fish.
did you tread your discus against worms?

[Andy123]

the attack of the other discus cant be the cause of your last discus.
maybe you should look for another source where you can get good quality fish.
did you tread your discus against worms?
Yes, the Worm-rid treats both worms and gill fluke.
I do know this discus was bullying the old one. I saw him numerous times pecking at him. I wish i had got the divider in on time!!!!!He was 1/2 the size of my current discus

[fishgeek]

how are you diagnosing flukes?

what is the fish doing that worries you
respiratory conditions will often be worsend by higher temperatures and some medications as they can lower the dissolved oxygen saturation of water

andrew

[sammigold]

Hi Andy123,
Sorry to hear about your troubles.
Firstly are you sure that your discus has gill flukes. I ask this as if one fish has flukes normally others in the tank will start to display symptoms. Flukes will not just stick to one fish.
Having had a fairly bad case of flukes in a pond outside I know that it can sometimes take quite a while for flukes to build up in numbers and to affect your fish so you may have added a new fish 8 weeks ago for example but your fish would not start displaying symptoms of flukes until now. Does that make sense.

Also sometimes discus flick and rub against stuff if the water conditions are not to their liking. they may be experiencing irritation due to the rise nitrite readings rather than flukes.

Your tank should not have nil nitrates if it has been running for 2 years. It should have some reading. The fact that you have readings of nitrites would suggest to me that your tank is re-cycling. (maybe due to medications and extra water changing affecting your bacterial bioload)

At the moment I would suggest water changes to get rid of the nitrites as they would certainly not be appreciated by your fish. The fact that you have a lot of fry in the tank is probably contributing to that.
Getting rid of the Kribensis fry will help. I would also suggest trying to get new homes for the other fry as soon as possible. This will take some of the waste load off the tank. (at the moment that is a lot of fish for a 165 litre tank)

I would suggest a salt treatment but as you have a bristlenose in there it is probably not a good idea. If you could separate your discus into a hospital tank you could try using something like a salt treatment to help promote slime coat production and relax your discus. Also as the german said being by himself will probably stress him. But I wouldnt add any new discus Until you have solved his problem. you dont want to add any new problems and definitely should wait until all the fry are gone at least.

Good luck
sammi

Hth for now.

[Andy123]

hi
i am doing a water change this after noon. Should i do an extra big water change...If so what %? The krib fry are going to LFS tomorrow or sunday.
I am not absolutly sure if it is gill fluke or not.....just the syptoms suggest to me that it is gill fluke.

[sammigold]

Ok describe the symptoms so that way we know what is happening.
There are some very knowledgeable people here on this forum so someone should definitely be able to help.

I would suggest a 20-30% w/c and then maybe small w/changes about 10-20% every day whilst the fry are in there.

Keep checking your water parameters to ensure that you are keeping the nitrites down.

[Andy123]

Ok describe the symptoms so that way we know what is happening.
There are some very knowledgeable people here on this forum so someone should definitely be able to help.
-he is very shy
-he has the mucus hanging in gills. This is coming out as his gills open and going back in when he closes gills
-he is mainly eating colourbits and not the frozen food i give at night(dont know if this is anything to do with it)
-he will flicker his dorsal fin at times

[Andy123]

Ok
I was talking to this guy on MSN and told him what has been happening and he seems to think it is the dreaded
"DISCUS PLAGUE". Do you think this is a reasonable diagnosis. He gave me some links i will post here...What do you all think?
http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=34&theme=Printer
http://article.discusnews.com/cat-02/plaque.shtml
Fishkid[/url][/b]

[scott bowler]

andy take some pics mate and check all the water and let us know how they are . i would ism the slime comeing of they bodys there is a lot of things that you need to tell us

[Andy123]

yeah...sorry the pics are hard to get will get some asap

[scott bowler]

andy it doesnt sound like discus plague to me mate . thats why i need to see the fish some time it will help so if you can get a pic of the fish mate it my help us help you

[Andy123]

Yeah no worries i will post one prob. tomoz as he is hiding atm. I will get one asap. Try post it here by tomorrow night.....

[Andy123]

here is a vid...look at his gills...
http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/fishkid951/?action=view&current=P5040018.flv

[samir]

buy a bio starter like sera nitrivec. you should have some sort of nitrate reading.
is he still eating ??? if he is mix 1000 mg of metronidazole and feed it to all your fish for a week, that should stop the hiding as long as you get the ammonia and nitrite to 0.
worm rid, does that contain praziquantel ??? if it does look for a trichlorfon fluke medication and use that. change water, get rid of the nitrites

[Andy123]

today the breathing is alot better...all though i am expecting it could go bad again like all the other times....
on a different forum i hav asked the same question and there are a few discus nuts there and they said that from the vid i posted there looks to be nothing wrong and this problem is from my nitrite reading of 0.25. is this right...here is what one person said...

Is this a recent clip? I have to say on looking at it I agree with Andy although as I've said before I know nothing about Discus other than what I have read so I might not be seeing what someone in the know would. He certainly doesn't look timid or like he's hiding from you and does just look like he's scouting for food. No problem with the other fish either, seems quite social. Nice colour to him, very pretty Some fish are picky with what they will eat but from that clip he doesn't look thin or ill to me.


Just had a look at your video and IMO I think you are over concerned. The fish has strong colours and red eyes. It might be breathing a bit quick but what is the temperature? Its mooching round looking for food. A sick discus will not do that, it will go very dark in colour, emaciated (wasted) and hide permanently. Yours has none of these. The bit of skin flicking on the edge of its gills could be just that, skin. As far as scratching and flicking of its fins go, what do you do if you have an itch ?? Does'nt mean you have any plague. Just keep an eye on your water params and go easy on the medications

thanx all on your veiws
andy

[sammigold]

Andy,
Your fish does have good colour but does seem to be breathing a little rapidly.

As I said previously, I believe it is a matter of getting rid of the nitrites.

You really should have some nitrates if your tank is cycled and NIL nitrites Nil ammonia.

Keep up with w/c and get rid of the fry or put them in another tank.
good luck

ps. I dont believe it is Discus Plague. I believe it is related to water conditions changing due to your fry growing and the extra waste etc.

[Andy123]

Just did another water change(33% to get rid of nitite.) then I did a water test.....Here is what it showed...
Temp: 30
pH:6.8
Ammonia (ppm): 0
NitrIte (ppm): 0
NitrAte (ppm):10

I did my test really carfully and it turns out i needed to shake natrate solution for longer than I have been. Do you think these parametres are good...
Any ideas/thoughts on the discus and this post(water parametres etc)
Cheers
PS. I think the discus plague is out of the question. His gills were not too bad today, but still room for improvement

[fishgeek]

does the fish look kind of lop sided?
is the left gill cover moving more than the right?

i cant see the mucous you describe coming from the gill region, though gill irritation will cause mucous and fluke do look pale often

things that may affect one side more than other would be parasites and foreign bodies
are you happy handling and examining that gill

or maybe it is just my eye'e

andrew

[sammigold]

I think those parameters are excellent.
Well done andy on getting those nitrites down.

your nitrate reading is good.

I would suggest that you keep doing small 10%water changes everyday whilst you still have fry in there. Once they are gone you should be able to return to your normal routine.

cheers
sammi