Seachem Aquazole

[ozarowana]

I've seen this for sale in Australia.

It's metro with a potassium carrier, suppose to help it work more effectively in FW.

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=239&highlight=aquazole

[samir]

sounds good. strange how there's so many conflicting dose rates for metro :?

[elvip]

Hi Ozarowana,
Where have you seen this Aquazole avail for sale here in Australia??
Cheers
Elvip

[mistakes r crucial]

Although it's really early days, Fenbendazole is looking like it could be a bit of a one stop shop for Discus medication. It all started with a few mates looking for a solution for Hydra as one of our group has had a problem with them but this stuff is looking real good. From the information we've found so far it reportedly takes care of gill flukes, Hex, thread, round and tape worms, velvet, white spot and quite a few other nasties. It's also as cheap as chips from the vet! If it all stacks up it'll beat the crap out of all the commercial products at 15 times the price.
MAC

[mtchye]

I seriously doubt that any of the "azole" family of medications would have any significant activity against hexamita. If I remember correctly it is also fairly ineffective against white spot, velvet and not the treatment of choice for gill flukes.

I'd suggest looking for some reputable veterinary journal articles to back this stuff up before relying on it. But it would be great if this was true ;)

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Mtchye,

I'll go back through the papers we've read and see which one's are scientific. However, the Flubenol 15 in the UK which is now an over the counter product does profess to cure many of the ailments I listed in this post. Get back to you shortly.
MAC

[mtchye]

That woudl be great if you could find a cheaper alternative to metro! Good of you to dig into these sorts of things rather than go with the status quo.

Just a correction to my original post, for some reason I always figured that the only "azole" effective against hex was metro, with fenbendazole and others more towards the nema/trema/cestodes...

Then again the infectious diseases papers I read were so long ago... :)

Keep us informed on your research ;)

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Mtchye,

Will do mate. It's all very confusing at the best of times but with this particular drug I cannot understand why our vets have not found out more about it, it's been here long enough. My vet asked me to trial it 18 months ago and I refused as she said there was little information on it's use with fish but then I find out it's been used for 15 years in Europe, all very confusing.

We will continue to look for scientific information but at the end of the day I suppose it will be like everything else with fish, try it and see how it goes through personal experience.
MAC

[fishgeek]

i am in england and i do not believe flubenol 15 is available without prescription

flubenol 15 is a product that contains flubendazol, when i first began reading about this approx 4 yrs ago , most that i could find was german internet sites and i couldnt read
the only source of flubendazol that i can find in the uk is as a poultry wormer( i guess i have some further digging to do at work)

the statement about "azole family of medication" is unfortunately incorrect and misleading
metronidazol is not related to fenbendazol , spelling has lmore to do with chemical structure and both products have an imidazol ring yet are different products to my knowledge anyway( i certainly am not a biochemist and have only scanty organic chemistry recall)

fenbendazol/flubendazol and others are a group of benzimide anthelminthics , whose mechanisms of action are not fully understood , something to do with cellular metablism through microtubules but not totally classified
this group of products is widely accepted to be very useful against most nematodes and some cestode and trematode species aswell as most protozan species

as mac says this would seem to make the products very useful in aquatics

metronidazol is a synthetic nitroimdazol antibacteria with antiprotozoal activity

andrew

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Andrew,

Take a look at the Flubenol web site as it states, and I quote from their web site,

What is Flubenol 15 designed to do?
Flubenol 15 is unique and specifically designed and developed for aquatic use and approved by the Vetinary Medicines Directorate under the small animals exemption scheme to be sold over the counter for public sale.
This Medicine will kill skin flukes, gill flukes, camallanus worms, tapeworms, anchor worms and other helminthics commonly found in tropical and coldwater fish. It has also been used successfully with 'skinny disease' in clown loaches.

http://www.flubenol.co.uk/

Cheers
MAC

[elvip]

Hi MAC,
Are you sure that Flubenol kills Hex?? - as it doesn't seem to mention protozoans as part of the spectrum of activity in the website extract? My impression is that it does the gill flukes and worms (helminthics) only?
Does anyone have any experience with this Aquazole and where it is avail in Australia??
It would be great to be able to get metronidazole OTC!! :D
Cheers
Elvip

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Elvira,

Not Flubenol 15 but some of the papers we have read on Fenbendazole state that it will kill Hex. The jury is still very much out so please do not take my word for it, these are statements that have been read on the net so there is still a great deal to learn about it. I'm waiting to hear back from someone that has also found a heap of info on it but as he works all hours God sends it might take a while. However, it does look promising from quite a few aspects with Discus.

What we have found so far is that it will kill flukes for example but it's not the drug of choice for them, Prazi and Trichlorofon still are. However, thus far I still like the look of it because it is very broad spectrum and when we use it to primarily worm fish we could also be safeguarding against quite a few other potential problems. As I said before, potentialy a bit of a one stop shop for Discus but, still lots to learn.
MAC
PS I do believe that Octazin by Waterlife will help you get Metro over the counter, if it is still available.

[samir]

Hi Elvira,

Not Flubenol 15 but some of the papers we have read on Fenbendazole state that it will kill Hex.
you mean Flubendazole ?

[mistakes r crucial]

I'm not sure yet Samir, this is the info I'm waiting to get from the mate of mine. I've only been told about it over the phone.
MAC

[mistakes r crucial]

I wish Andrew or one of the vet's on here can tell us exactly what the difference is because everything I'm looking at is saying this about both of them...
"Fenbendazole (brand name Panacur) is a broad spectrum benzimidazole anthelmintic used against roundworms, strongyles and pinworms for humans, sheep, cattle and horses."

Flubendazole([5-(4-fluorobenzoyl)-1H-benzimidazole-2-y1]-carbamic
acid methyl ester) belongs to the group of benzimidazole carbamates.
Flubendazole is an anthelminthic agent active against a range of
gastrointestinal parasites in pigs and poultry.

MAC

[samir]

its definitely Flubendazole :lol:
only place I could find it is here as a infeed wormer for poultry and pigs
http://www.nutritech.com.au/products/products_detail.asp?product_id=116&country_id=1&letter=f

[fishgeek]

they are 2 related drugs , therfore it can be assumed they have similar efficay and range of action

they are not the same drug
hence there are 2 names flubendazol and fenbendazol... i have experience with fenbendazol and this is why i write what i have experienced with this product

fenbendazol is certainly effective against protozoa

andrew

[ozarowana]

Here's a good link which lists the chemical groups

http://www.chemicalland21.com/lifescience/phar/FEBANTEL.htm

[mistakes r crucial]

Interesting that Flubendazole is not mentioned there and yet all the other Benzimidazoles are.
MAC

[mistakes r crucial]

I've found a bit more info on these two and although there is a difference IMO it is very little. Maybe someone with some chemistry knowledge can point out more but they look pretty similar to me.

Flubendazole http://yabang-qhpharm.en.chemnet.com/show/pdetail--531601.html

Fenbendazole http://yabang-qhpharm.en.chemnet.com/show/pdetail--531598.html

MAC

[Kingkat]

Mac, I have forwarded these 2 links to my brother in law who is a Professor of Pharmacy at James Cook University. Hopefully he might be able to tell us something.
Cheers,
David.

[mistakes r crucial]

Thanks David, it would be good to get to the bottom of it. I'm just very interested in finding a good, inexpensive med that will treat a multitude of sins and one that doesn't have too many reports of nasty side affects. I've recently tried Ivermetcin as you know and through all this looking for information I came across a few papers stating that it can cause irreversible neurological and breathing problems in fish and some smaller dogs, it never ends!
MAC

[Kingkat]

Mac, At the end of the day we are dealing with chemicals. As you know with human medications some people get side effects with certain medications and some get great results. It's the same with animals and I think we need to accept tat we migh lose some fish while beneficially treating the majority. The fish we lose could be prone to side effects because of genetic or environmental issues or reactions to compounds given off by stressed or dying parasites. But as you said if we can get a good cheap broad spectrum med that would be wonderful. I don't think it would matter what med you research there will always be papers noting the problems. I have also asked Squid's wife for info on her rates for Panacur.
Cheers,
David.