Hospital Tank Setup... and Salt...?

[Del]

I have a discus that is dark, hasn't been eating much eating for about 4 days (a bit of bloodworm), hiding and breathing rapidly. His eye looks a bit cloudy too. I have not observed it's poo

I am currently doing a 30% WC every two days and have added salt to the community tank that it is in (1 teaspoon to 20 litres). Its been 2 days since I added the salt.

2 other discus were added to the community tanks at the same time and they are all fine, eating and swimming around.

It is getting picked on by a larger discus that was already in the tank (maybe because it is sick...?), but then again that discus is picking on all of them a little bit anyway.

My question is - how long should I leave the salt in the community tank?

Should I just set up a hospital tank and move him into that.

What I do know about a hospital tanks is that you need an airstone and heater... is this right?

My questions about hospital tanks are:

1. Will a 30 litre tank do
2. Does it need a light
3. Do you have to cycle the tank first
4. Do you use tank water or aged water or half and half
5. What coure of action should I do next?

Water is looking fine.

Sorry for the long post!

DEL

[scott bowler]

hi del hope your well, that 30 lt tank is fine you will need a sponge filter or somethink like that ,as well as the heater and air stone i would use water from the tank it is in . that sould cycle the tank . it dosnt need a light as long as you can see how he is going .to me it sound inturnal so maybe octizon is the go. im sorry i dont know about the salt as i dont use it hope it goes well keep it up good luck

[Merrilyn]

Scott, I'm sorry to disagree, but just adding water from a cycled tank will not cycle a new tank.

The nitrifying bacteria live on hard surfaces, like the gravel, glass, plants and mainly in the filter, where they get a constant stream of nutrients in the form of ammonia, and a plentiful oxygen supply.

There are very few bacteria living in the water, and if you have a UV on the tank, even less.

It's a very common mistake, and lots of people assume that they can cycle a tank with 'used' water. Even some Aquarium shops will tell you the same thing, but they miss the point entirely.

You can seed a new tank by moving over some used filter media. The bio colony will soon settle in to the new filter, and begin to feed and multiply, but it will still take a while for them to build up sufficient numbers to deal with all the ammonia and nitrite in a new tank.


Del - I don't bother to cycle a hospital tank. A lot of the meds you have to use will destroy any bio filter anyway (tetracycline is deadly to bio filters, so is meth blue and malachite green). Daily water changes take care of any ammonia in the hospital tank, and with some meds you need to dose several times a day (as with metro) and do a water change before each dose.

[scott bowler]

im sorry merrilyn you are right i would have put some graval in the middle of my sponge filter as it is only 30 lt that is what i have done in the past . as the middles are empty it may not work but it has for me . only i forgot to add that sorry

[Merrilyn]

No problems Scott. I just had to clear that up, because you can see how confusing it can be for new tank owners :P

[Del]

Thanks Scott and Ladyred. At this stage I won't be setting up a hospital tank, but will keep this information in case I do when all else fails.

Since adding the salt the discus has perked up a little and has eaten some bloodworm. He is not as dark but does still hide when I approach. He also seems to float with his head up rather than horizontal (if you can imagine what I mean) - is this usual?

How long do I keep salt in the tank before doing saltless WC to remove it...?

I have bought a bottle of the Sykes containing Levamisole and do have some Worm-Rid containing Prazi. I thought I might worm the whole tank and my breeding pair at the same time. How do I use these products (eg: one at a time, with a break inbetween, etc).

Should all the salt have been removed with WC before I start worming?

DEL

[Del]

How long do I keep salt in the tank before doing saltless WC to remove it...?

Anyone...? :)

[elvip]

Hi Del,


He also seems to float with his head up rather than horizontal (if you can imagine what I mean) - is this usual?

Sounds like it might be a swim bladder problem/infection going on - if that is the case then keeping the salt conc in the tank would be a good idea - as this may take a while to correct. If the condition does not improve/worsens, then a course of antibiotics may be needed - nitrofurantoin etc.
Please correct me anyone if you think I am wrong!!

Cheers
Elvip

[Del]

Thanks Elvip.

So keep up the salt indefinitely...?

You don't think it's worms then...?

DEL

[elvip]

Hi again Del,
I think it sounds like possible swim bladder problem - fish with this condition usually swim/float head down& tail up or head up & tail down - can also sink to the bottom or float to the top of the tank.
I would keep the salt going - only replace what you take out with water changes - don't overdose!! - I don't think keeping up the salt will hurt.
One other thing I would do is to make sure the temp is at the higher end of the scale ie.30 degrees celcius - but make sure you maintain good oxygenation though - eg. add an airstone.
I would also keep a close eye on him/her - see if there are any other signs/symptoms or if the problem progresses or improves - and then treat accordingly.
There are a couple of threads on swim bladder problems in this forum - maybe have a read of these and see what you think. Also anyone please correct me if you think I am way off track!
Let us know how you go.
Cheers
Elvip

[Merrilyn]

Del, is he still showing the problem? Has there been any kind of improvement?

Swim bladder problems usually occur as a result of bacterial infection in the gut, and if that's the case, then you will need antibiotics for that fish.

The salt won't hurt the fish long term but it will destroy any plants you have in your tank. I think if salt is all that was needed, it would have had an effect by now.

Time to start doing some water changes, to remove some of that salt, then you can treat with levamisole to eradicate internal worms. (Never use two porducts together)

If the fish is still showing signs of problems, you need to treat with something like Waterlife Octozin and that should clear up any bacterial infections.

[Del]

Ladyred, the only improvement is that he is now eating bloodworm at night but nothing else. He seems to perk up and get his colour back when he feeds.

All other times he still floats around on the bottom of the tank, dark, top fins clamped and nose up/tail down.

Elvip, I removed my plants, turned on 2 airstones continuously and started dosing the community tank with salt on the 19th. The temperature is at 30 degrees.

On 27th I started removing it with a 30% WC, again on the 29th and am guessing that another WC tomorrow and Friday and all the salt should be gone.

I will then add the Levamisole (Sykes Big L) to all my discus and see how he goes then. Is this right?

Thanks, DEL

[Merrilyn]

Exactly right Del.

Good luck.

[Del]

Well the 3 days of treating with Levamisole no worms were passed from any of the discus (that's a good thing, I think).

The sick discus is now really nose up, tail down and is not looking very well at all! :cry:

I have some Waterlife Octozin to try now - hope that helps.


I don't bother to cycle a hospital tank.

So I have a spare tank, a sponge filter (not seeded) and a heater. Am I just filling the tank with aged water (with Prime and Stability), adding the discus and 2 crushed tablets, every day for 3 days then a 25% WC...?

[scott bowler]

hope things work out for you del im sorry things have not got better

[Del]

Thanks Scott - how are yours coping after the Ammonia spike and Octozin use...?

[scott bowler]

we are still not good but i have found some bigger probs with them so trying to work them out and they will be fine . i havent used it for this prob but i do us it and fined it is a good med for worms and things like that . this was just one of those things that after useing octozin i have a prob unrelated , it was a trigger well no the water change that i did after it was the trigger ,well i hope your fish improve del