Shrinking tummy / never eating... sigh.

[Mat]

Long time listener, first time poster... this is a great forum.

I've kept Discus for a few years now and am hopefully not a complete newbie. 4 tanks incl 3 year planted co2 injected planted display etc.

But over the years I've lost several fish (not just Discus) to these symptoms:

Progressive wasting, no other external symptoms. Not hiding but not active either; occasionally eating but not much or not at all. This one is a juvie red/white (6cm snow leopard) so can't see a colour change. No poo ever seen to analyse. Tummy gradually shrinking, fish not growing and getting skinnier as the weeks go by.

Not getting picked on, not communal either - detached and uninterested. Not overly shy but not outgoing either (sounds like an internet dating site!)

I've previously tried Metro with no success on other fish and now don't have any. I do have access to octozin, prazi (currently treating with this anyway), levamisole, tri-sulpha etc but I can't get Metro.

I do daily water changes with 50/50 aged/RO water. Water conditions are all good. Diet is BH mix, quality pellets and frozen bloodworms.

10 other juvie discus in the same tank are doing very well.

I have tried putting this one with 2-3 peer fish only, no change.

So, can anyone suggest something else? I bet you're all going to say metro...! Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

[Merrilyn]

Hi Mat, and welcome to the forum.

It sounds like you're doing everything right. Unfortunately some discus just seem to get a wasting disease. Not really sure of the cause, and it doesn't appear to be contagious, because as you've seen, other fish in the tank will be unaffected.

The only thing I would question is feeding them live worms. I know they love them, but they can bring in all sorts of nasties with them. Stick to your frozen foods, or make up one of the very good beefheart mixes you'll find on this forum. It's so much safer than introducing live food into your tank (the exception being live brine shrimp, because they are raised in salt water).

I'd stop using the prazi at this stage, do a big water change to remove all the meds from your tank, and start on a course of Octozin (it does the same thing as metro). Unfortunately it may be too late for this little fish, but it's still worth a try.

The other thing is, do you have a UV on your tank?

Once I installed a good UV, the previous "mystery deaths" seemed to stop happening. I've been using them for a number of years now, and wouldn't run a discus tank without UV now.

Have a look in the Equipment forum for some good advice on UV units.

[Mat]

LR,
Thanks for the reply. Sorry I wasn't clear in the original post.. worms are frozen Hikari bloodworms. Beefheart is a mix from recipes on the net.

I have a big UV on my 125gal planted, might move that over the the discus tank.

Will try Octozin, I was thinking the same.

I've noticed some fin flicking as well.... bugger. Any thoughts about how this fits in the scheme of things?

I'm thinking of this as a plan of attack:
Final prazi dose done today already.
W/C tomorrow then start octozin course.
After octozin I was considering temp + salt to fix any external parasites. I was planning 35 deg + 1 tablespoon salt/40l - is this the right dose?

Otherwise a tank change, sterilise this one, salt dips on return...

It never ends!

Thanks for the help.

Mat

[Merrilyn]

I like your plan Mat.

Think I'd try a salt dip rather than try to salt the whole tank. 35 is a bit too high. Don't go over 32 degrees and that should be fine.

[Mat]

Ahah! Found another piece of the puzzle (although I might be trying to make many puzzled at the same time!)... One of the others is breathing from only a single gill.

So I think the plan suggested by samir in another thread might be best:

Transfer to another tank, nuke this one (by the way how do I do this?) then salt dips on return to a now sterile tank.

What's the concentration of salt in the dip solution? I know to remove them when they topple.

Then Octozin after that maybe...

Thanks again LR, you're like the mother to thousands of discus around Oz...!

[samir]

if you've just used prazi and you think its gill flukes, then they're probably immune to it. you can sterilize a tank with bleach like Ladyred described in another post.
trichlorfon contained in some fluke tabs also works but you have to be more accurate with dosages. 3 pottasium permanganate treatments 2mg/litre for 24 hours, day 1,4 and 7 will kill all external parasites (double check dosage and use at own risk)
if the wasting doesn't improve with octozin I doubt if there is much you can do. these kind of things usually get better only if they are caught early. maybe a long antibiotic treatment if all else fails ?

[elvip]

Hi Mat,
I recently had to 'put down' a discus juvie for the same reason you descirbe here - slowly wasting away - I couldn't bear to watch him/her waste away like that any longer, it had been over a long period of time with no signs of improvement, and I am sure he/she was slowly suffering :cry: :cry:
Although I did not use any of the such treatments you mention, all the signs & symptoms you describe were the same - except there were no obvious signs of any gill involvement/fluke.
All the other discus in the tank are fine, and I still don't know what may have been the cause of this wasting :?:
I'd certainly be interested to see what you come up with.
Cheers
Elvip

[elvip]

Hi Mat,
I recently had to 'put down' a discus juvie for the same reason you describe here - slowly wasting away - I couldn't bear to watch him/her waste away like that any longer, it had been over a long period of time with no signs of improvement, and I am sure he/she was slowly suffering :cry: :cry:
Although I did not use any of the such treatments you mention, all the signs & symptoms you describe were the same - except there were no obvious signs of any gill involvement/fluke.
All the other discus in the tank are fine, and I still don't know what may have been the cause of this wasting :?:
I'd certainly be interested to see what you come up with.
Cheers
Elvip

[elvip]

Hi Mat,
I recently had to 'put down' a discus juvie for the same reason you describe here - slowly wasting away - I couldn't bear to watch him/her waste away like that any longer, it had been over a long period of time with no signs of improvement, and I am sure he/she was slowly suffering :cry: :cry:
Although I did not use any of the such treatments you mention, all the signs & symptoms you describe were the same - except there were no obvious signs of any gill involvement/fluke.
All the other discus in the tank are fine, and I still don't know what may have been the cause of this wasting :?:
I'd certainly be interested to see what you come up with.
Cheers
Elvip