White spots - do I need to be concerned?

[enigmatic]

Hi,

Please excuse my paranoia but I don't want to leave this and find out it is what I fear it could be.

After doing a water change and feeding my new Discus tonight, I noted that one of the new Red Spotted Greens has a few white spots on it. 2 are on the fin and one more is on the body.

I've tried to get photos but they are not great. Please see the below and advise if this is something to be worried about and if it is, how I should be treating it.

Thanks in advance and I apologise now if I turn out to be worried about nothing.

Chris

[iro11a]

Hey have no idea what they could be but some mine had that same sorta thing on some of their fins and went away a few days later

Jono

[enigmatic]

Hey have no idea what they could be but some mine had that same sorta thing on some of their fins and went away a few days later

Jono

I kind of hoping it is nothing, perhaps a calcium build up in the fins but when there is a spot on the body I just can't be sure.

Have seen this sort of thing in the LFS and left the shop straight away assuming it is a disease of sorts.

Chris

[iro11a]

Well my fish got white spot and i treated them and a week after they healed one had those white spots so i thought it might just be scar tissue or something healing itself so i did't worry and it turned out alright i would keep a eye on it in the next 24hours gets any worse try using tri-sulfa or ickaway if you got a hospital tank.

[enigmatic]

Since posting I've had a good look at the tank and this is the only fish I can see that has these spots.

[Bill T]

Hi Chris.
You should get that surface skimmer soon.
As for those white spots, unless there are other signs - like raised edges or spreading or other fish gettingthem, they look like signs of trauma to me.
If my fish have been fighting or dashing about they can lift a scale or get a bit of a scrape - usually clears up within a few days.

[enigmatic]

Bill, just sent a PM - the skimmer arrived today.

Thanks to all for the comments and advice. Looks like it may be nothing as the marks are not present on any other fish that I can see and they appear to be going for the fish pictured.

Fingers crossed this comes to nothing now - sigh of relief :P

[enigmatic]

Well, looking at the fish this weekend, this fish is showing more of these white spots on the pectoral fins and a little on the tail. Some of the other fish are also showing one or two on their pectoral fins and I think one may have a white spot near the mouth.

There has been a bit of biff and bang in the tank during the week but nothing severe/significant.

I've done a couple of small water changes through the week and did a 40% change yesterday.

Any ideas?

[Bill T]

Well, if it's starting to spread, I'd be inclined to get a diagnosis and start appropriate treatment asap.
What's your LFS like with this sort of thing? Or perhaps a fish competent vet - must be one somewhere around Sydney?

Take one of the fish for inspection/consultation?

[Bill T]

By the way, Chris, do you have a UV sterilizer on your tank?
If not, I would get one as they do keep bacteria and other nasties to a minimum, so if your fish do get a scrape, they are at less risk of developing a topic infection.

[enigmatic]

By the way, Chris, do you have a UV sterilizer on your tank?
If not, I would get one as they do keep bacteria and other nasties to a minimum, so if your fish do get a scrape, they are at less risk of developing a topic infection.

Hi Bill,

Yes, I have a UV on the tank. Forgot to switch it back on after the big water change on the weekend - Prime/Stability says the UV should be off.

Wouldn't trust any of the LFS on the Central Coast to help diagnose this. Will either try and get better photos for the forum or look up a vet but again wouldn't have high hope for anything on the Central Coast.

[Bill T]

Chris.
How are your fish? Any progress on the white spot infestation?

You might try a course of Myxacin, which greatly lowers harmful bacteria levels - that is it takes out free floating bacteria - but won't harm your bio-filter. If this is a bacterial thing, it should start to resolve with the Myxacin.

Just don't mix this with other medications as you might get some nasty interactions.

[enigmatic]

Chris.
How are your fish? Any progress on the white spot infestation?

You might try a course of Myxacin, which greatly lowers harmful bacteria levels - that is it takes out free floating bacteria - but won't harm your bio-filter. If this is a bacterial thing, it should start to resolve with the Myxacin.

Just don't mix this with other medications as you might get some nasty interactions.

This has got me totally baffled :?

The other day it looked like it had cleared up and was looking good. Came home in the evening to find more fish had spots and some of those that did previously had less/none.

LFS had recommended Protozin but I hadn't picked it up yet. Will get Myxazin instead and give that a go - will pick up tomorrow.

I did a water change last night and closely studied the fish. Went to bed quite worried. My Blue Diamond went black as did a couple of other smaller Discus (1 that is runted and 1 small from Fish Rock). One of the small Discus seemed to be displaying much more of the white spots.

Today though my Blue Diamond is a beautiful colour and front and centre in the tank.

Fed some live blackworm before (weekly treat) and every single fish raced to them so no loss of appetite.

Running UV again 24/7 now but will have to switch off for the Waterlife products.

Like I say, got me stumped.

[Bill T]

I've never used protozin, but I understand it treats for a range of parasites.

The real question is, what are those whitespots from? Egg sacks of some sort, perhaps? I'm a bit surprised noone here has shed more light on the possible causes. Perhaps talk directly to Ladyred.

If you could get a sample & have someoene look at it under a microscope, perhaps that could shed some light.

Otherwise, I suppose you could go through a series of meds, like myxacin, followed by protozin, followed by octozin. Take care to scrub out each medication before starting the next one.
By the end of that process you should have pretty clean fish.

The fact that your fish don't like the water changes worries me a bit. Do you test the water from your tap before the change? Make sure there are no nasties like chloramine, or ammonium hanging around, or a significantly different pH. I hear the water qulaity where you are is on the decline.

Also, I have steered away from live foods, even though the fish go ape over them. I reckon I have introduced diseaes in the past this way.

[enigmatic]

I have been thinking about what I could have done to kick this off in the tank. The only things I can think of are:

- I have added no newly bought fish to the tank. All I have done is move a Bristlenose from my small tank to the large tank. No fish in the small tank shows any sign of disease.

- I have introduced a couple of newly bought plants but these were added after the white spots started to appear.

- I have added a piece of driftwood to the tank that has been present in the smaller tank for > 1 year.

- I have added plants from the smaller tank. Most of these plants are currently floating in the tank pending planting/decision what to do with them.

I am puzzled as to whether there could be some sort of contamination from small tank to large but have so far crossed this off on the basis that none of the fish in the small tank show any signs of illness/disease.

Saying that, the small tank has been a problem since we moved house in Sep 2006. I cannot keep the water in that tank clear without the use of the UV. If the UV is left off I get floating white particles followed by a mist within the tank. Cannot clear through water changes etc; only UV keeps on top of it.

The small tank underwent a lot of change since 1st Jan 2007 as I was pulling up a lot of plants from the substrate - mainly crypts. This could have disturbed something that has gone from one tank to the other on the plants perhaps?

Again though, none of the fish in the small tank show any signs of disease. That tank has 2x Yo Yo loach, a neon tetra, a few scissor tail rasbora, a couple of rainbow fish and an otto. As I understand it, the otto would be the first to go if there were some disease/water quality issue.

I'll check tap water again but I've had no issue with water quality. I double dose with prime and use stability. Ph is constant, no excessive ammonia; not sure about chloramine but this should be catered for my prime/stability? (UV is off when I add prime/stability).

I've heard and read mixed things about live worm too but I talked with Ron at Fish Rock about this and he explained he had learnt to look after Discus and they were fed large amounts of live worm. Only downside is having to worm the Discus every couple of months to be on the safe side.

Chris

[Merrilyn]

Chris, this has got to be some sort of parasite, if the other fish are getting it too, and some of the previously infected fish are now showing no signs.

The medication I would be using is Protozin at this stage, and see if that improves things.

[Bill T]

....like I said, Ladyred should know what to do. Her good and timely advice saved my precious darlings quite some time ago.

If this turns out to be a paraite, then I would suspect the live worms as the source.

Good luck with the protozin, and please keep us updated.

[enigmatic]

Chris, this has got to be some sort of parasite, if the other fish are getting it too, and some of the previously infected fish are now showing no signs.

The medication I would be using is Protozin at this stage, and see if that improves things.

Hi Ladyred,

Thanks for replying. I picked up Protozin and started the treatment this afternoon and will keep updating this thread.

I had a good look at the fish before dosing the tank and noticed that the number of spots had reduced - can only assume this is due to the UV having been running.

UV is off whilst I dose Protozin. Any idea if I should turn the UV back on between days 3 and 6 as I am not dosing Protozin then.

Cheers,

Chris

[enigmatic]

Started dosing on Sat and today is day 3 in the treatment. Already a marked improvement in nearly all of the Discus.

I say nearly all as one of the Blue Diamond doesn't seem to be 100%. I think this could be something else as it is Blue on minute and will then work it's way into the driftwood roots and go black. It is forever hanging at the back of the tank and is darker that the other Blue Diamond I have.

Will keep an eye on it all and may end up having to start another thread for that fish as it seems to be something else.

[Bill T]

You can email waterlife for info about their products.

How is that blue diamond coping? And why is one of your discus a runt - a case of failure to thrive? They can have substantial gut infestations and kind of grizzle on for ages (at least mine did), eating like pigs but never putting on weight. I had one that would gorge itself until it puked, but it never grew. So perhaps this and the stress they have been under lately might be hurting bluey?

In any case, once the aparent parasite is taken care of and you have cleared all medication from your system, a dose of octozin might be worthwile. In my experience it does no harm to healthy fish, but absolutely blitzes intestinal worms and other parasites... just watch out for a possible ammonium spike.

[Merrilyn]

Glad to hear things are improving Chris. Leave the UV off till you have finished the course.

Bill's advice is spot on. Your blue diamond could be suffering from something totally different. A dose of octozin in a few weeks time, might just sort things out.

[enigmatic]

Glad to hear things are improving Chris. Leave the UV off till you have finished the course.

Bill's advice is spot on. Your blue diamond could be suffering from something totally different. A dose of octozin in a few weeks time, might just sort things out.

Hi Ladyred,

UV will stay off then. Have emailed Waterlife as well but now I think about it, it stands to reason that if the UV is off during dosing it should be off between days 3 and 6.

Blue Diamond was out swimming around when I came home and was reasonably blue again. Will see if it behaves the same as last night when the lights start going off.

I have Octozin but will hold off treating for a couple of weeks. Don't want Discus soup in the tank :shock:

[enigmatic]

Hi,

Waterlife have just replied:

"It is best to leave the UV off for the duration of the course and for three days after the final dose."

Cheers,

Chris

[iro11a]

Any luck with the white spots one my discus has the same thing now and other fish are starting to show signs of it as well i put a dose of tri sulta into the tank to help treat my pigoen also yesterday.

I was going to get protozin but heard its dye based,so did your course of this stuff go did to heal the white spots away,i think they are some sort of parisites

Jono

[enigmatic]

Any luck with the white spots one my discus has the same thing now and other fish are starting to show signs of it as well i put a dose of tri sulta into the tank to help treat my pigoen also yesterday.

I was going to get protozin but heard its dye based,so did your course of this stuff go did to heal the white spots away,i think they are some sort of parisites

Jono

Jono,

Things are looking good for me. Can't see any white spots on any of the Discus now.

Cheers,

Chris

[iro11a]

Sweet chris thats good news did you need carbon to get the dye out of the water or did it go out itself?

I might have to get me some protozin

[enigmatic]

I've not used Carbon as the tank is still in the treatment stages.

Not sure about the dye and removing it. The water does change colour when you dose but within the hour this is usually gone visually at least.

[iro11a]

Sweet might be a good idea to try this stuff out if tri sulta dont work thanks for that chris cheers!

[enigmatic]

Sweet might be a good idea to try this stuff out if tri sulta dont work thanks for that chris cheers!

You may want to check with others on the forum before switching meds. They will be able to better advise on what you need to do before dosing with Waterlife stuff.

I'd imagine you're going to need a break between the 2 treatments.

[iro11a]

Yeah 48 hours between meds but i still got two days to go of tri sulta i hope it works cos the Pb is laying on the bottom not looking good and i dont think it would make another 5 days

[enigmatic]

Well things are looking good. No signs of any white spots in the tank now.

Blue Diamond is still lurking every now and again and going dark. Doesn't seem as interested in food - seems to be a fussy eater.

May have another issue to deal with now as some of the fish are showing long, stringy poo. One of the yellow pigeons will have a trail about an inch long with parts of this clear and other parts being white/black/red depending on what has been eaten I guess.

May start a new topic tomorrow :)

[iro11a]

Sounds like they might have internal infections there mate i would treat with octozin its helped my little juvis eat a bit better but they havent 100% started eating but better than before

[Bill T]

I had lots of trouble with various illnesses. When I treated with octozin, my fish passed all mannerisms of intestinal "junk", after which they hve been real healthy.
So I do think if there is intestinal stuff going on, it weakens the fish and they become prone to illnesses and bugs they otherwise would simply shrug off.
I would complete the prtozin treatment, wash out with carbon, then give the octozin a go in a week or two.

Good luck.

[enigmatic]

How is that blue diamond coping? And why is one of your discus a runt - a case of failure to thrive? They can have substantial gut infestations and kind of grizzle on for ages (at least mine did), eating like pigs but never putting on weight. I had one that would gorge itself until it puked, but it never grew. So perhaps this and the stress they have been under lately might be hurting bluey?

Hi Bill,

Sorry, haven't fully replied to this part of your post before. My Blue Diamond is now fine - front and centre and being a real pig with food.

I learnt the hard way with the Discus hobby by buying my first 2 Discus from a LFS. Ended up with 2 runts but only learnt of this after posting pics on the forum. Have since only bought from Xtreme and Fish Rock.

I guess it is possible the runts have passed on something to the Blue Diamond?

Chris

[enigmatic]

Well the latest news today is that there are no signs of any spots on any of my Discus.

Did a water change today and vacuumed the substrate. Notice some of the long stringy poo as I removed this from the tank and then as I sat back and admired the tank after the water change.

Was quite happy until I noticed some more stringy poo. Was just about to work out how to get this out the tank when I noticed this poo was moving and it wasn't due to the water current!

This long, white, stringy poo about 1 - 1.5 inches long was curling and bucking around. I'm pretty sure this means it is a worm.

I got it out and was going to photograph it for identification but it was just a blob out of the water.

So, the good new is I've got no white spots but now I think I'm going to have to worm the fish. Question is - which worm am I trying to get rid of?

[iro11a]

Hey chris sounds bad one of mine had the white stringy poo i used meds from the aquarium and he passed them but didt eat for ages after it,

Also i didt need to med my tank to get rid of my white swans spots i just did heaps of water changes and it healed itself :D

[enigmatic]

Well based on what I saw in the tank and searches on here/Google images, I believe it is tapeworm.

[iro11a]

i used wardleys para ex for the worms mine had it does anchorworms,gill flukes and fish lice.

[enigmatic]

From what I have read, I need to use Prazi to get rid of tapeworm.

Have got a new topic going here to confirm:

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92780#92780