Overcrowded tank

[ivo]

hi all, i need a bit of advice here. i have bought far too many discus for my tank. there is no problem at the moment ammonia and ph level are good and all fish are healthy, but when they start to grow it may be a problem. i have one external filter and my question is if i buy another external filter would it help in the long run? thanks.

[samir]

how many is far too many ???

[ivo]

i have 15 in a 200L tank.

[scott bowler]

yep you need more tanks or to get rid of some of your fish id say you need more tanks you dont want to get rid of fish

[ivo]

i like them all so don't want to get rid of them, so adding another extra external filter would it help?

[samir]

what size are they now ?

[ivo]

5 large adults, 5 medium and 5 little ones.

[samir]

one problem i can think of would be if the adults spawn, also its better to keep the little ones by themselves. however , you can manage with that amount, if you change enough water. i think a minimum of 50% every 2 days. If you have small fish, nitrates must be very low otherwise they will stop growing. I suggest you get a nitrate test kit and change water accordingly. or just get another tank.

[tao]

yep you need more tanks or to get rid of some of your fish id say you need more tanks you dont want to get rid of fish
another choice, work harder change more water. Malaysian discus gold law 200% water change everyday. Can u follow it? lol

[FishLover]

Adding another filter will not take out nitrate. You will need to have more water changes to do that, plus taking out other nasty things.

Your 200 l tank can hold about 5 adults. Yep, you are overcrowing the tank for sure. The rest need to be in some other tanks. Unless you can do tons of water changes, you will have some problems for sure. One way to do this is to investe into an automated the water change system. You can set the amount to 100% or 200% water changes every day.

[AQUAMX]

Hi guys

Was hoping i could throw in a couple of things without rocking the boat to much.

With good filtration there is a law that is used by many people around the world. Many argue it and others applaud it so you can decide what you think.

The rule works on 1cm of fish per litre of water. So in 200L you should be able to keep 20 10cm fish without to much drama. What do you think?

On nitrates, i would be concerned if my tanks did not contain nitrates. Nitrate is the end of the nitrogen cycle and shows me that the filtration is converting ammonia into nitrite, nitrite into nitrates. 0-10 nitrates is very acceptable with discus being more picky toward nitrite not nitrate.
If you were to have 0 nitrate readings one would wonder if your filtration has cycled at all and if it infact is doing its job.

[Bill T]

Install a heap of plants. They will thrive on the nitrate load.

[Merrilyn]

Rule of thumb for discus, is one adult fish per ten gallons or 40 litres of water. You're way over that limit, but it can be done if you're prepared to do a lot of work. Nitrite in the water will poison your fish, but nitrAte will retard the growth of juvenile discus, so you need to have a zero nitrite reading, and a very low nitrate reading, preferably under 5.

Are you using a bare bottom tank, or planted. If bare, then the only way is to do lots and lots of water changes.

If you have a planted tank, then the plants will use up some of the nitrate, but you have a huge fish load, and you are still going to have to do water changes at least every second day to keep the levels acceptable.

A lot of us are guilty of overloading tanks, so you're not the only one. Just remember that these fish come from some of the cleanest waters in the world, so unless you keep your water prisitine, you're asking for trouble.

[AQUAMX]

Sorry IVO i didnt realise your fish were wild caughts.

I assumed that they were localy bred so my numbers may not apply although that rule is commonly used . Usually non wild caught fish, through being bred and rebred in Australian tap water adapt to growing up in these conditions.

Having never seen the amazon along with their parents,parents parents and so on, replicating their environment makes no sense. You would be far better keeping them in the conditions they grew up in from the breeder as any wild genetics have been well and trully bred out.

I also think good filtration is the key to any aquarium along with regular weekly water changes. With the water levels in Australia dropping daily, doing extra water changes during the week is not only damaging the country but is not needed.

I have several discus types including wild caught heckel willischwartzi. These fish receive only weekly water changes. Sure wild types need to be kept in a low p.h etc but stability is the key. There is nothing stable about water changes of 50% every 2 days.

The beleif that these fish are 'touchy' is rubbish. They are a cichlid and therefore naturally hardy. If they can survive the travel with no food halfway across the globe in tiny bags, then held in quarintine for 2-3 weeks with barely any food only to be flown again in bags barely larger than their body to stores across the country and still survive my guess is that they are hardy.

Only my personal view of what works for me.

[ivo]

thank you all for your advices. everytime i see a pretty discus then i cant help myself. there is no problem with the fish atm they are all pretty healthy but i have ordered a new tank a monarch 120 series so separating them into two tanks should be fine..i guess. love them too much and the fish cost me around $2,500 so dont want to get rid of any of them. anyhow thanks guys.

[luvmydiscus]

May I ask a question here regarding the size of tank for discus. If you say that one adult discus needs 10 gal can:

One discus be kept in a 10 gal??

Two discus be kept in a 20 gal??

Just curious.... :D

[tao]

May I ask a question here regarding the size of tank for discus. If you say that one adult discus needs 10 gal can:

One discus be kept in a 10 gal??

Two discus be kept in a 20 gal??

Just curious.... :D
that's a silly formular. how many fish in one tank all depends on how is the water condition. if the waters going off, you have to change water, so more fish need to change water more often. strong filter is very helpful but still need to solve the problem by changing water at last.

[nicholas76]

no such thing as a silly question


there is some validity to it

fish volume Vs water volume ratio is used as a general guide by most people in the hobby !

[Merrilyn]

May I ask a question here regarding the size of tank for discus. If you say that one adult discus needs 10 gal can:

One discus be kept in a 10 gal??

Two discus be kept in a 20 gal??

Just curious.... :D
that's a silly formular. how many fish in one tank all depends on how is the water condition..

We're talking multiple fish here, kept in a larger tank. :D Obviously one adult discus is going to be very unhappy in a ten gallon tank, however all my breeding pairs have always been kept in 20 gallon tanks (80 litres) and seem to breed quite happily in that size tank.

I do very much agree with your comment, that it depends on the water condition.

Asking a fish, that has lived for countless generations in very clean water, to suddenly adapt to dirty water that is only changed once a week is absolute folly, and only an inexperienced fish keeper would advise you to do that. It's almost as bad as asking them to adapt to a pH of 8.

Ivo, I'm glad you got your fish another tank. They will love you for it.

Just keep up with those twice weekly water changes and you will have happy, healthy fish.

There are a lot of people out there who have been in the discus game for five minutes and imagine themselves experts and willingly hand out incorrect advice. Just don't believe everything you read :P

[nicholas76]

Rule of thumb for discus, is one adult fish per ten gallons or 40 litres of water. You're way over that limit, but it can be done if you're prepared to do a lot of work. Nitrite in the water will poison your fish, but nitrAte will retard the growth of juvenile discus, so you need to have a zero nitrite reading, and a very low nitrate reading, preferably under 5.

Are you using a bare bottom tank, or planted. If bare, then the only way is to do lots and lots of water changes.

If you have a planted tank, then the plants will use up some of the nitrate, but you have a huge fish load, and you are still going to have to do water changes at least every second day to keep the levels acceptable.

A lot of us are guilty of overloading tanks, so you're not the only one. Just remember that these fish come from some of the cleanest waters in the world, so unless you keep your water prisitine, you're asking for trouble.



SPOT ON mate this is totally accurate!!

[mistakes r crucial]

If you wanna breed 'em, keep changing water, if you wanna grow 'em out and pay for your hobby, keep changing water, 50% water changes every 2 days is unstable? I should stop learning from Asian breeders, they've obviously got it all wrong.
MAC

[Merrilyn]

I second that MAC :P

[tao]

hi ivo, when u came to buy my fish, u saw how many I put in one tank. 40pieces 5cm discus in 50liter water, only one sponge air pump filter. 5meals beef heart everyday. so i change water 100%everyday. but my breeding tank only change water a quater once a week. say again its all decided by water condition. Malaysian breeders are not wrong, they keep fish in high density and feed a lot everyday of course they need heaps water change. its farming, save time from fry to commercial size can make more money. they also can change a lot of water for breeding fish, because water is soft and acid, keep amonia zero can have more survival percentage from egg to fry. but not in Sydney, water is different and life style as well, high tech can save people from a lot of hard work. but what's strong filter for, what's more space each fish for, what's nutritious dry food for, that's also the way to keep good water condition. all the ways lead to Rome. there's no wrong way or right way, only if u can reach rome.
at last don't forget aquarium hobby is like gardening, u invest more time and more labour, u will get better harvest.

[mistakes r crucial]

Malaysian breeders are not wrong, they keep fish in high density and feed a lot everyday of course they need heaps water change.

Do I really have to explain what I meant???
MAC

[tao]

sorry, just missed your point.

[luvmydiscus]

Very interesting facts you all follow. I find this all very interesting and educational too.

But for a person like myself whom just wants Discus for a nice display tank in our home doing water changes once a week is this not enough??

I would also like to ask about peat pellets. From past experience of trying to lower our ph and having many dead fish if I were to use peat pellets again how often do these have to be changed?

I also run my carbon 24/7, does this remove the purpose that the peat pellets are providing in this tank?

Amy :D

[samir]

from what i've heard carbon will remove the peat

[FishLover]

Amy,
Lowering pH is kind of tricky. If you are not careful, you will end up with lot of dead fish. Never try it out with the fish in the tank. Anything more than .3 swing of pH will stress out your fish. More than that could kill them. Always treat water in a different container. I use a product called Discus Buffer, which works great for me to lower my pH from 8+ to 6.3.

Changing water once a week (40+%) should be ok if you are not over loading the tank (more than 10g of water per adult discus) and not over feeding them. When they are young, you need to feed them more and that requires more water changes. I would say 50% twice a week for a while should be fine. They may not grow as fast compare to more WCs.

[Merrilyn]

But for a person like myself whom just wants Discus for a nice display tank in our home doing water changes once a week is this not enough??

I would also like to ask about peat pellets. From past experience of trying to lower our ph and having many dead fish if I were to use peat pellets again how often do these have to be changed?

I also run my carbon 24/7, does this remove the purpose that the peat pellets are providing in this tank?

Amy :D

Hi Amy, as tao and MAK have already said, it all depends on the water quality. If you have a fairly large planted display tank, with few fish, then changing the water once a week would be fine. If you have a large number of fish, and your nitrate level is high (above 10) prior to a water change, then you need to change water twice a week.

Remember that nitrate is an indication of the amount of accumulated waste in your tank. Discus come from very clean waters, it is warm, slightly acid and has a very low nitrate reading. The constant movement of the river is removing waste, and bringing fresh water 24 hours a day.

Obviously we can't do that in an aquarium, so we use filtration and water changes to remove waste and keep the water clean, and our fish healthy.

Peat moss will soften and lower the pH of your water. I'm not sure why you had problems in the past. Perhaps it dropped the pH of your water too low. If you fish are happy with your tap water, then I wouldn't be doing anything to alter it.

Carbon is very good for removing tanins and medication from the water but it shouldn't be in your filter all the time. It has an active life of around 10 days to 2 weeks, after which time it should be removed and discarded.

Try to keep it simple, good food and clean water, and your discus will thrive. :P

[paolo montuori]

Ok! From we it is well it think to give 50litri for adult discus 30/40 for small discus, this avoid illnesses, pollution of the water and to have a management more housewife, that is to say to do a change of the 30/40% to week. It is true that a lot of breeders proffessionisti do changes of 100% to the day but their have the means to be able do it, in house is difficult.

[paolo montuori]

The charcoal resolves temporarily but of habit itself the united states after treatments of medicinal. I believe that the problem is necessary to resolve the upstream, with a good installation for opposite osmosis and a bath of housing for the water you will have some optimal values for the life of the discus. The peat itself that acidifica and gives back stable the ph, beyond that arrichhire the good water of acids, but does not refine the water.

scua you if for case I misunderstand but I write and I translate with a translator therefore perdonatemi in anticipation thanks