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  1. #1
    Just an Egg
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Australia
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    32

    New tank - water changes

    I have set up a new Planted 4ft Discus tank just 2 months ago, 6 x Discus added 2 weeks ago after the tank had fully cycled. It also has 7 x Cory Julii and a few Cardinal Tetras. The tank is approx 220 litres with a separate 30 litre sump. I made the 1st 40 litre water change after the 1st week after putting Discus into tank but the fish were not happy, all sitting at bottom of tank but then the following morning they were all ok. I purchased fish from Nick at Sydney Discus World who appears to be very knowledgeable and was told NOT to make any further water changes for at least another month and then to change no more than 10% water weekly, preferably fortnightly. I do not want to do anything to harm these fish and I am confused, hearing so many stories of people who change up to 50% water weekly which also seems excessive. Today 1 of my fish is only breathing from 1 gill at a time. Can this be due to water conditions?
    Can anybody help?.

  2. #2
    Free Swimmer
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    488
    I'd change 40% weekly.

  3. #3
    Just an Egg
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    77
    Water changes are vital, especially in a young tank. I dare say that the advice you have been given is both wrong and potentially dangerous to your fish.

    The most important thing you need to do is invest in a test kit - not only for pH, but at least for pH, NO3 (nitrate) and KH.

    Every week, test your water - desirable pH for discus is between 6-6.5 (though keeping other fish in mind, 6.5 is probably safer, without knowing the species of tetras you're keeping), desirable nitrates for ANY fish is 0, and desirable KH is quite low (below 100, anywhere to 0). However, the lower your KH, the "easier" is it for pH to fluctuate, especially in a young tank, so don't aim to get it too low just yet.

    If nitrates are present, a water change MUST be performed immediately, of at least 25%, anywhere up to 50 depending on severity. If water conds are fine, still perform a water change - waste will otherwise build up in your substrate and this will cause problems, so remove it with a gravelvac and bucket, or something similar.

    Breathing from one gill could be a number of things - I am loathed to admit it, but the first and last time I went to discus world, the fish I took home were riddled with gill flukes and other worms - WORM your fish straight away, using any worming medication containing the active ingredient "praziquantel".

    If the fish are in clean, warm (28-32*C) water, with correct pH and KH, they should be happy. Check your water conditions, perform water changes weekly, and hopefully your fish will look and feel better.

    Good luck

    Jacqui

  4. #4
    Wrigglers
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Alice Springs
    Posts
    280
    Hey Jacqui,

    Check your posts please, ammonia and nitrIte should be zero, nitrate in small amounts, less than 20 ppm is not to bad though A. Ramirezi are more sensitive.

    Regards,

    Bob

  5. #5
    Just an Egg
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    77
    I am aware of these parameters, thanks. But if not testing nitrite or ammonia, nitrate is a good indicator of the efficiency of the entire bio cycle - as a general rule, if nitrate is zero, nitrite and ammonia are unlikely to be above 0. Higher levels of nitrate (eg 0-20ppm, as you stated) aren't "desirable", they are tolerable - please note my word choice.

  6. #6
    Wrigglers
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Alice Springs
    Posts
    280
    Thanks Jacqui,

    Testing for nitrAtes only in a new tank is high risk as you are not going to get nitrAtes if you don't have a colony of nitrobacter established on your filter media and without nitrIte (nitrsomonas breaking down ammonia), this won't happen.

    If I am able to detect low levels of nitrAte in my tank I am happy as this is telling me that I have a functioning bio-filter. The nitrates are also useful for my plants.

    Regards,

    Bob

  7. #7
    Just an Egg
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    32
    Thanks for the advice - seems everybody is saying to start water changes immediately - I will make up 60 litres ( 25% ) and change tomorrow after adding Prime today and aerating for 24 hours.

  8. #8
    Just an Egg
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    32
    Thanks for the advice - I have a test kit pH 6.4 Ammonia .50 ( but should be Ammonium @ pH 6.4 and Temp of 82 ) Nitrite 0 Nitrate 40ppm. I am told NOT to worry about kH as Sydney water is good? Should I invest in one? It concerns me the Nitrate is 40ppm so I will do 60 litre water change ( 25% ) HOWEVER I am led to believe that it is good to have up to 20ppm Nitrate in a planted tank. Is that correct ???

  9. #9
    Eternal Moderator Merrilyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Melbourne Vic.
    Posts
    8,692
    Your nitrAte is a bit high at 40 ppm so I'd be doing a waterchange to correct that. More of a worry is your ammonia reading of .50 (yes it is ammonium at readings under 6.5 pH but that just means it's LESS toxic. It's still not good.) Any ammonia reading means that your filter is not fully cycled and is struggling to convert the amount of waste your fish are producing.

    Please do a waterchange immediately of at least 50% and continue changes every second day till you bring the ammonia reading down to zero. Adding Prime each water change will also help to neutralise the ammonia.
    Thirty-five years keeping and breeding discus, and I'm still learning :P

    Merrilyn has passed, but will not be forgotten - Goodbye dear friend

  10. #10
    Just an Egg
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    32
    Yeah thanks, I agree I am concerned the Nitrate has risen too but more concerned the Ammonia had also risen to .50ppm. I am also pretty sure its because of the excess waste from the fish food predominantly, there is 8 cardinal Tetras and 7 Cory Julii with the 5 x 10cm Discus, the Tank & Sump is approx 240 litres so you are probably right, maybe the tank has not fully cycled which concerns me even more, especially with 5 x new discus. I have made up 60 litres water with Prime yesterday and adjusted the pH to 6.4. I am concerned the Discus will not handle any major water change so I have changed 30 litres this morning ( 12.5% ), then will do another 30 litres on Thursday. Also adding 1/2 cap of Stability each change. I will make up another 60 litres water tomorrow to make another 30 litre water change on Saturday and again next Monday by which time I have changed 120 litres over the period of a week, which is 50% of the water. I hope this will be ok and not too dramatic on the discus. Then planning on 30 litre water change weekly, is that sufficient when I have a sump? After today’s water change Ammonia/Ammonium has dropped to .25ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate has dropped only slightly and is still almost 40ppm, pH 6.4. I have only just ordered a gH and kH test kit so I will update those results hopefully tomorrow or the following day. After 4 hours the Discus appear to be happy so hopefully it will stay that way.

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