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  1. #1
    Wrigglers
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    Laid again with fry just feeding on parents. Good or bad?

    Hi Gang,
    I recently took delivery of a lovely Spotted Butterfly pair. I've only had them 11 days but they have laid last night for the third time.
    First I should say that I wasn't prepared at all as thought they would take ages to settle in. They were in a tank with another pair that were removed soon after. Also the filtration was a canister with fast flow etc.
    The first batch of eggs went within a couple of days of arriving. Within a few days they laid again and 14 free swimming fry has been the result. Amazing considering all the messing around I was doing trying to make their environment better.
    The fry have been free swimming for a few days now and are now hanging around the parents feeding off the slime coat. It has been great watching them care for their fry.
    But surprise - surprise again this morning. All was going to "plan". I came down, sitting quietly watching the parents care for their fry spitting them back onto the.........eggs?
    Its a very large batch of eggs as well, tightly packed together. The last was spread out and only half as much.
    I thought the parents would be caring for their young for two to three weeks before laying again?
    Everything seems ok, the parents are caring for the fry as before and now are also fanning the eggs etc? Im wondering what probs this may cause? Will the fry eat or damage the developing eggs? (probably eggs are to big?)
    Is this normal behaviour? Perhaps the fry's days are numbered as the parents prepare to hatch out the new eggs?
    Its a poor pic (did'nt want to set up any extra lights in case I bothered them to much) but you can hopefully make out the fry near the top right of the cone and about half the mass off eggs on the upper right also.


    I guess its just sit back and let them get it right in their own good time,

    Cheers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dsc09972.jpg  

  2. #2
    Eternal Moderator Merrilyn's Avatar
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    The pair must have decided that 14 youngsters wasn't enough, so they have laid again. Most of the time when pairs do this, they will eat the free swimming fry once the eggs are laid. If your pair are still showing parenting toward the 14 fry, you have a good chance of them raising both sets of fry.

    Unusual, but it has been done before.

    Keep things calm around the tank as much as possible, and just let them get on with it.

    Good luck. You have a good pair, and they should give you lots of fry in the future.
    Thirty-five years keeping and breeding discus, and I'm still learning :P

    Merrilyn has passed, but will not be forgotten - Goodbye dear friend

  3. #3
    Free Swimmer Nev's Avatar
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    Whatever happens now will sort its self out in the long run. Sounds like you've got a great pair!

  4. #4
    Wrigglers
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    Hi Merrilyn, Hi Nev,

    Yes I'm very happy with them. I'm "trying" not to peek every 5 mins and am feeding a small amount of black worm every few days. I've found it good because its live food and stays fresh until consumed for days and doesn't rot and need me to be vacuuming the tank all the time, disturbing the proceedings. Other than that I'm doing 10% water changes daily which are done slowly and they don't seem to mind. I'm following your advice Merrilyn and leaving a light on. Mine is a mild blue (low output t5) actinic type light so they can all see what's going on without it being to bright hopefully.
    I was hoping to shift them to there 200lt breeding tank before all this but have not had a chance as don't want to disturb them with eggs/fry. They seem happy in my 5ft holding tank for the time being. Its a bit big but they were not waiting around,

    Fingers crossed : )

    Cheers

  5. #5
    Just an Egg
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    That's awsome! Good luck with them.

  6. #6
    Blue Diamond Discus swampy1972's Avatar
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    I used to just be jealous that you got this pair, now I'm just banging my head against the wall for not having my tank ready to get them

    They'll sort it all out. I doubt having fry a few days apart in age will have much bearing on the outcome for them. If the adults' parenting skills are as good as they would appear I'm sure they'll cope.

    The only thing I'd do would be to remove the spawning cone as soon as possible in case they're tempted to spawn again. Though that said, if they're that keen they'll spawn on any surface, but it may just be enough to let them focus on the care of the fry.

    Good luck and keep us updated

  7. #7
    Wrigglers
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    Hi Mrs D,

    Love your work! The very best of luck to you to. I'm following your thread with great interest. I noticed that our fish seem to be laying in sync. It got me to thinking that if someone had a bunch of pairs (who would do that to themselves!?), could you sneakily introduce some fry from one pair in with another pairs fry that laid at roughly the same times and have them reared by the other parents? Surrogate parents? .....


    Hi Swampy,

    Lol, I'm sure you have some AWESOME fish swimming around there at your place!
    My spawning cones are $3.00 toilet brush holders from Bunnings. A couple of river stones inside with a couple of cable ties over the opening and hey presto..... Discus eggs!

    I have two in the tank, one near each end and noticed they liked to move the first fry from one to the other. Surprisingly they have laid this time on the one closest to where we walk by (Its in the garage, so not walking past to much). I'm not game to remove anything right now.... : )

    You guys have a great day!

    Cheers

  8. #8
    Free Swimmer Nev's Avatar
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    Hi hooked, moving fry from bad parents to good ones makes sense. Can't see how to move eggs but free swimmers would be easy with a syphon. btw i've got 4 pairs, constantly breeding so had already thought of that.

  9. #9
    Eternal Moderator Merrilyn's Avatar
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    Commercial breeders use surrogate parents all the time. They move desirable fry to foster parents to allow the main pair to lay again more quickly than they otherwise would, if they were rearing their own fry. Obviously their main aim is to produce as many high grade fry as possible, without burning the parents out.

    For us, it works well if you have a good looking pair that you are keen to get fry from, but who are confirmed fry eaters. Move them over to your better parents for safe rearing.

    So long as the foster parents have fry at roughly the same age, it works quite well.
    Thirty-five years keeping and breeding discus, and I'm still learning :P

    Merrilyn has passed, but will not be forgotten - Goodbye dear friend

  10. #10
    Wrigglers
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    Hi Nev, Hi Merrilyn,
    I'm sure four pairs keeps you busy Nev. That's about where I'll end up I think, 3 or so good pairs (which I'm sure wont just turn up over night, so I've got plenty of time). With that I imagine they obviously all have there own tank or compartment in a tank, but how many grow out tanks do you find is a good number and what size do you use? I find that 6x2x2 is about the max that I like to shift around and still manage to hang onto my friends! I've been looking for a 6x2x2 to divide into 3 as a breeder and thought of stacking them as grow outs as well in racks. Maybe one divided as the breeders tank and the other three as the grow outs (reinforced thick concrete floors here) for now. I'm just wondering what's a good grow out size and how many fish can be reared in it in a reasonable time to that saleable size (because god knows what I'm going to do with all these Discus if they actually grow otherwise?). : )
    I have two 220lt blue plastic drums for my water ageing and they are just keeping up with large display etc as well. Do you have a storage tank instead? I guess a couple of thousand litre is not to big a tank and can spirit it away somewhere.
    This is getting expensive? : )
    I wonder how many people have been here before me, expanding, only to eventually downsize to one or two pairs due to costs involved?

    Thanks Merrilyn for the surrogate info. Very interesting and would be great to try one day. Do you have many pairs these days? Have you ever wondered how many Discus you have helped bring into the world after 35 years?

    Cheers : )

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