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  1. #1
    Free Swimmer
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    Fluke information and video under the microscope

    Took a scraping from one of my juvi's that has been dark for a little while and put it under the microsope. I suspected flukes as he occasionaly flashed but wanted to be sure. I certainly found one.

    The link below is a video I took - it's what a live fluke looks like under the microscope

    http://members.optusnet.com.au/fbsmi...ium/flukes.avi

    I have posted information about flukes lower down in this thread

  2. #2
    Free Swimmer
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    Running through my worming regime, I remembered the Praziquental I had was pretty old and was getting out of date . Having confirmed flukes after using prazi I checked the use by date on the tablets I had and errr... well it was a bit older than I first thought

    I bought some fresh prazi, and dosed a few days ago with noticable differences, all the treated discus had a supressed appetite and the juvi that was dark has improved considerably.

    From my experience - I recommend always buying and using the freshest (longest use by date) prazi you can find

  3. #3
    Just an Egg
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    Sep 2008
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    Sydney, Australia
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    I was under the impression that Metro was the best treatment for Gill Flukes... Or is it just another treatment

  4. #4
    San Merah Discus
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    Mar 2004
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    Caringbah, NSW, Australia
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    Metro is for internal flagellates

    I use PP for flukes


    HTH

  5. #5
    Free Swimmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtreme
    I use PP for flukes
    HTH
    I considered PP, but it's no good in a planted tank - and isn't it pretty harsh on the bio-filter?

    Sure works out cheaper though

  6. #6
    Larvae
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Sydney, Metro
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    just wonder, where can i get Praziquental??

    thanks

  7. #7
    San Merah Discus
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    Mar 2004
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    Caringbah, NSW, Australia
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    Most LFS stock it or u can get it from here,


    http://www.aquariumsuppliesaustralia..._detail&p=1269

    HTH

  8. #8
    Blue Diamond Discus BigDaddyAdo's Avatar
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    May 2008
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    Baulkham Hills, Sydney
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    Is Prazi useful for other external parasites?


    Ado
    I don't get drunk I get AWESOME!!!

  9. #9
    Free Swimmer
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    It's targeted to flukes and tapeworms, I don't think it's effective for other parasites including roundworms hence the need to worm with levamisole (Big-L) as well as prazi.

  10. #10
    Free Swimmer
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    Been doing some research on flukes and they are scary little buggers... here is a summary of interesting info I have found out.

    There are two main types of flukes, referred to as Skin Flukes and Gill Flukes but that is only a preference both types will happily live and eat in both places they just have a preference for one or the other.

    Skin flukes are actually Gyrodactylus. (I'll refer to them as Gyro for short ) Gyro's give birth and each Gyro has several generations of young, so an adult Gyro will have an unborn Gyro, and that unborn gyro in turn also has a developing embryo. A newly born Gyro will subsequently give birth to another Gyro in 24 hours... this is temperature dependant and most of the info I have found is for pond temps.. Discus temps are obviously higher which will speed up the lifecycle so it's probably much quicker than 24 hours but I haven't found info on just how quick it is at 28-30 degrees.

    Gyro attach to the fish with large hooks which are laden with bacteria. The hooks puncture the skin or gill lemellae creating an open wound which introduces the bacteria.

    Eradicating Skin Flukes is in theory a bit easier then Gill Flukes becuase if all live Gryo's are killed then in thoery there is nothing left to give birth, however there is evidence and infor that suggests an unborn Gryo can stil be born from a dead parent, This mans a treatment will kill the adult but not the unborn... Even if this eveidence is wrong IME since a single remaining Gyro (with generations of unborn young inside!) could quickly reproduce to a dangerous population, repeat treatments are extremely important to ensure every last Gyro is killed.

    Gill Flukes are actually Dactylogyrus (I'll refer to them as Dacto for short ) Dacto are egg layers, in typical pond temps they will release one or two eggs every hour, but as the temp rises the egglaying increases significantly. In a typical tropical community tank of 25C they will lay 20 eggs every hour . Again I expect this will probably be even more at discus temps but I haven't found specific info. The eggs can be attached or float and can take months to hatch in cold temps (ponds in winter) but the hatching time again speeds up considerably with increasing temp and at 20C they hatch in about 4 days. A newly hatched Dacto IS FREESWIMMING - this is contrary to what I have seen people suggest. A newly hatched freeswimming dacto must find a host in 1-4 days (I have found confilcting time-lines on this) or it will perish (Thankfully it does have some weaknesses ). The lifecycle is vey temp dependant. Adults can actually be dormant in winter and the lifecycle reduces tp as quick as 2 weeks in ponds in summer, I expect in discus temps it may even be as quick as 1 - 1.5 weeks from hatched to egg laying, but again I haven't found exact info on this.

    Dacto are attracted to the Gills, and will move along the body to the gills, puncturing the skin and depositing bacteria along the way in the gills they reach large populations and create massive damage. The damage they do can create a secondary problem of bacterial gill disease (BGD). As the gills are damaged, the fish will have trouble breathing, more noticable when the O2 concentration in the water reduces.

    Eradicating Gill Flukes is recognised as difficult. The eggs are not harmed with treatments so a repeat treatment is necessary to catch the newly hatched flukes. Since a single adult can lay 20 eggs every hour, if one adult survives the first treatment then a third treatment will be necessary to get the eggs from that adult as they hatch and so on. In addiition to this the temp dependant life cycle can differ with individual strains of Dacto's so the treatments may be given at the wrong times not catching all of them, and finally there is plenty of anecdotal discussions about treatment resistant flukes - One scientfic paper I read suggested 34 weekly treatments to ensure eraditcation

    Interestingly Salt dips are suggested to assist with reducing the population numbers, Formalin/Formaldehyde based meds are also considered effective at "controlling" the population of flukes and PP dips is often suggested as a very effective treatments - Extreme pointed out PP as a treatment above

    Prazi is considered an effective treatment and has minimal problems associated with it (Bio-filter, plants etc aren't afected) but it isn't the cheapest method though, especially with multiple treatments.

    I'm about to do my third treatment with prazi, with each treatment remaining in the tank for 2 days (as per instructions on bottle) but with 4 days between each treatment instead of 7. I'll probably do a fourth treatment as well

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