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  1. #1
    Free Swimmer ozarowana's Avatar
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    PP, potassium permanganate, KMnO4, condy's crystals

    I've been asked how to treat with PP. This is the way I use PP to treat discus with gill flukes or other parasites, which may show symptoms such as scratching, shyness or hiding in the corner, skittishness or dashing around the tank, flared gills or one gill clamped, fish going off their food, hanging head down at 45 degrees and going dark in colour.

    I have used it on other fish such as angels, BN, whiptails, gibbys, geos, rams, cories and L numbers without any problems at all. A friend uses it on Africans aswell after I discussed it with him. Fish are more active and eat better following treatment. Your water usually turns crystals clear too.

    Everything is done in a bare tank, I don't think pH or temp matters too much, just make sure to increase aeration. You can do it in tanks with substrate, but it won't be as effective due to the higher bioload etc. I prefer baths over dips as dips don't deal with things in the water only on the fish.

    Remember not to use PP if you have been using formalin based meds. Apparently it is explosive

    1. Make a stock solution 2mg/mL (I used this concentration for ease of calculation, you can use any stock solution concentration). Accurately measure 2g and add to 1L RO or deionised water (you can probably use tap but it does contain chlorine/chloramines).

    2. Remove filters etc from tanks, increase aeration, remove poop and siphon off about 10-20% of the tank volume. Run cannisters in a bucket for the duration of the treatment.

    3. Add required amount of stock solution and circulate through tank, 1mL of 2mg/mL stock solution per L of remaining tank volume will give you a 2ppm or 2mg/L final concentration.

    4. Watch fish for signs of distress i.e. don't leave the house. Fish that are in bad heath will not tolerate the treatment too well, while healthy fish will continue to act normally (swimming around wanting food etc). So there may be a bit of a gradient in terms of distress. If the fish are showing stress symptoms such as clamping dorsal and anal fins then all you need to do is fill the 10-20% of the water you removed with dechlorinated water. I don't use hydrogen peroxide to stop the PP. The sodium thiosulphate in dechlorinators will do the same job and won't oxidise anything if you add to much unlike HP.

    5. The first treatment will probably not last very long, depending on the amount of dissolved organics in the water and also possibly the unused prime/dechlorinator in the water. You can check the activity of the PP at any time using a white plastic cup and looking at the colour of the tank water.

    6. Alot of info on the web says you need to keep the purple colour for a minimum of 4hrs. Andrew Soh suggests a longer bath. I have done short 4hr and long overnight baths and they both work well. I usually just let the PP run it's course and die out. Refill the tank after the PP is done or earlier if needed (see 4). Don't do huge waterchanges as your next treatment will not last very long.

    7. Place filters back on the tank and the water will clear after a few hours. Give sponges etc a sqeeze prior to putting them back in to remove a percentage of cysts that can reinfect. Your tank glass may need a wipe too as you will sometimes see sludge on the glass from oxidised bacteria/gunk previously on the glass.

    8. Andrew Soh recomends repeating five times every 4 days to break the cycle. I have done less to keep fluke numbers under control or clean breeders.

    9. Careful with using UV units post-treatment as the coloured water may dirty/stain the glass/quartz contact area and need cleaning if that's possible... not sure on this though. Best to remove them until the water is crystal again. I have seen fish with incurable scratching treated with a PP and UV combo.

    Please don't PM me if you have questions. Post them here for everyone to see.

  2. #2
    Larvae
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    Nice post ozarowana

    my questions:

    1. Do you (or anyone else) know if tetras can take a 2ppm PP treatment as you described above?

    2. I've heard mixed views about PP in planted tanks, does anyone know for sure if a 2ppm treatment as described by you in a planted tank would kill plants?

    3. Why should the filters be taken out of the tank? If it's done in order to keep the nitrifying bacteria, are they really( is it proven?) killed with 2ppm treatments? On another discus forum i read that 2 and even 3ppm treatments should still be fine for filters, 4ppm is I quote: "asking for trouble".

    thanks
    zar

  3. #3
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    pp is uselss in a planted tank. too much organic matter, plus some plants wont take it too well (eg java moss).

    if you have a planted tank take the fish out and treat in a bucket 10mg/L for 10 minutes.

    in addition to saving your filter bacteria, removing the filters also takes out ALOT of organic matter from the system (all the muck in your filter) making the treatment much more effective.

    *edited by ILLUSN to include correct units.*

  4. #4
    Wrigglers
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    anyone have any idea where you can get the stuff? i asked my local chemist and he says they cant sell it anymore due to its bomb making capabilities....go figure!

  5. #5
    Moderator samir's Avatar
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    very useful article.
    just like to add that electric yellows are sensitive to pp @ 2ppm, not sure about other Africans. PP is more toxic at higher ph so anything over 8 you might want to be careful.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy3
    anyone have any idea where you can get the stuff? i asked my local chemist and he says they cant sell it anymore due to its bomb making capabilities....go figure!
    you can buy up to a maximum of 50gm online.

  6. #6
    Larvae
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    Great article ozarawna,

    I would like to add you can buy PP from your chemist under the brand name GOLD CROSS it is sold as a foot bath for us humans,I'm in Vic so I'm not sure about the other states.
    Hope this helps in your search for this product.

    Ian

  7. #7
    Medium Discus
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    [quote="ILLUSN"]if you have a planted tank take the fish out and treat in a bucket 10mg for 10 minutes.

    Hi mate,

    Doing some reading and wanted to confirm this. Does this mean 10mg per ml - so if i have a 10L bucket i use 10g per litre to get this?

    Cheers

  8. #8
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    NO mate

    10mg/L!!!!!!!!!

  9. #9
    Medium Discus
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    Ok Cool. I don't have scales that go down to mg so i have written down to make the stock solution (which is what i was trying to say yesterday but was confused) so will mix 10g PP into a litre then will use 1ml of that solution and in each Litre of the 10L bucket which will give me my 10mg bath. Cheers.

    I dont have internet at home yet so am making a little bible to take home so if i need to refer to it i can. I bought some Metro, Levamisole and PP to have on standbye.

  10. #10
    San Merah Discus TW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarowana
    I don't use hydrogen peroxide to stop the PP. The sodium thiosulphate in dechlorinators will do the same job and won't oxidise anything if you add to much unlike HP.
    If the dechlorinators stop the PP, then I guess you can't use water that has been aged, but has had Prime added to it?

    Does the solution stain the silicone in the tank?

    Thanks in advance.
    Previously known as "Tankwatcher"

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