CO2 unit

[weird]

Hi , I am looking at a DIY CO2 unit.

I am in process of buying a fire extinguisher, a Quell.

Is 2kg sufficient or should I go with the 3.5 kg. We have a 3.5 kg at work and it is huge. I would rather go with a smaller cyclinder, as I guess refilling the cylinder is not really a major expense.

[flukes]

Thats up too you, and how often you want too refil it, id say the 3.5kg would last you about a year maybe more.

Also depends on the space you have to work with.

[weird]

I am going with the 2 kg size as it is more suitable for my environment.

Is this theory correct ?

1. During day, plants require CO2 , but produce oxygen.

Running an airstone and/or sponge filter will push CO2 out of the water as quickly as you can push it in with your CO2 unit so do not run these during the day.

2. With a timer run you airstone and/or sponge filter at night, as plants require oxygen (for respiration) at night . With timer/solenoid turn off CO2 unit at night.

[kalebjarrod]

not quite true,

plants respire during the process's of photosynthesis

plants require co2 + nutrients and sunlight during the day which they then turn into glucose(sugar) and h2o as a biproduct

plants actually give off o2 during the night and day as they respire converting the glucose back into energy

so you are best to have the co2 on al the time and the sponge filter all the time

this will simplely satuate the water will co2 and oxygen,

co2 will naturally disipate with water movment over the surface weather it be day or night airstone or no airstone

o2 is needed all day by your fish

turning them on and of will drop and drop pH, discus won't like that

[Bad Inferno]

If you have not got an online ph meter be very very careful. You can easily drop the PH by .5 in 15 minutes if like me have very little kh. I run a quell 3.4 kg with just an airstone

[weird]

I managed to pick up an old style quell 3.4 kg =)

Can you recommend where I can obtain a regulator, flowmeter and solenoid ?

I contacted BOC, and enquired about a 'Greenhouse kit' which contains all 3 bundled, but it was quite expenise, around $400. I was hoping to only pay about $150 - $200 for all three items.

A BOC CO2 regulator by itself was $134

Thanks in advance

[kalebjarrod]

ebay sells them

[weird]

thanks mate.

I was hoping someone may recommend a national seller, and what prices to expect ... from my little experience it seems sometimes luck of the draw if you happen to get a helpful and knowledgeable salesperson ... if anyone minds sharing what brand/model/store they used in either the regulator, flowmeter and solenoid department and any titbit I would be more than appreciative ... complete newb in this territory but having fun =)

[Al]

www.milwaukeemeters.com sells regulator, solenoid, needle valve and bubble counter for $220 from memory... I think they are based in Queensland.

Hope this helps.

[flukes]

Just make sure you get it for your unit, all this must connect. you may still need a change of thread for extinguisher but i think quells are alright for the regulator too sit straight in.

I wouldnt reccomend buying off ebay just because there are regulators for different things.

I know the beer brewers use similar products and thats where i got my needle valve from, iam sure they had regulators aswell but iam in no hurry too set mine up as i want too get a ph controller aswell. So iam doing it bit by bit and then iam going to set it up on a 6ft planted.

[weird]

Thanks Al for the milwaukeemeters link, that looks awesome !

The ph thing has been running in the back of my mind too Flukes, how it will flucuate abit during the day and night. There are heaps of diy articles which I hope to read soon, and maybe one that details hooking up a ph controller to it . I would be very interested.

Any futher suggestions more than welcome, even more suppliers ....

I pick up the extinguisher on friday, as it is being filled and tested, I will then be able to check things like thread ... before ordering the regulator.

Thanks again

[Bad Inferno]

I found that running CO2 on a non discus tank 25-26 degrees and the huge range of plant selections did make a great deal of difference grew like crazy. Now I can really only grow swords, val, anubus at 30 degrees I'm not so sure.

As I have no KH (less than 1 degree) I find that I have to increase the KH to 2-3 so that I can actually run CO2 to maintain a pH of 6.2 at ~20ppm CO2. With low KH your CO2 can make dramtic differences real fast. You will find (if like me and have no KH) you will be messing around with the KH just so that you can balance the CO2.

DO your fish a favour and do not connect it until you have an online pH meter. It's real easy to connect the Meter to the solenoid valve I would buy both together.

My Quell was a real pain to get the reg to fit I ended up taking it to a specialist fitting supplier, (swagelock) their in all states. Cost me something like 25 for two brass adapters. CIG, BOC etc etc could not help at all.

I assume you have the pH ver KH ver CO2 charts. What is your KH values today ?

[weird]

Again, invaluable information. Thanks Bad Inferno, I might need to contact swagelok. Gives me more confidence now in ordering the regulator, as I should be able to refit it if required. Nice website

http://www.swagelok.com/distributors/locator.asp?PassedRegionCode=ANS

The KH question is going to force me to get some sort of KH tester ... I have only been testing PH, Ammonia and Nitrite to this point. I will get one in the next few days.

[flukes]

A Ph meter connected too your solenoid would be about $100-200, a ph controller your looking at closer too $600-$700.

Because of our low kh in most of Australia, id be going for the controller otherwise you will find yourself at that needle valve trying to fine tune it all the time.

Are you going too make/buy a reactor or are you just going too use an airstone or diffuser.??

[weird]

What is the going rate for a kidney ? $600-$700 !!!!

Ouch!!! I only just got the ok from the mrs for the new 4 ft tank, cabinent, filter ... etc ... and a basic DIY co2 unit ... I will go for a ph meter then at that cost. I think the mrs is only letting me do this so she can get some rummynose tetra.

A controller would be nice, but I guess I will just play roulette awhile with the PH ... I like most of us, do constantly monitor my tanks ... I hope this is sufficient...and that my fish are strong (the spirulina in the beef heart mixture might help?).

Now I thought maybe I could come up with a "im not stupid" remark to your last question ... but I don't even know where to start googling to understand it. Please fill me in, I am keen to learn.

[weird]

Just checked Al's mentioned site

http://www.milwaukeemeters.com/qaquariums.html

SMS122 and the Milwaukee Regulator

PH CONTROLLER SMS122 $231.00
MILWAUKEE REGULATOR $ 220.50

Now this is affordable.

[Bad Inferno]

The Milwakie site looks good for your controller.

For the record I just got a good quality airstone (steel looking) together with some Silcon air line(must use for CO2) and placed it into the tank. I can see the bubble rate easily and can also see the bubbles getting smaller as they reach the surface. Airstone for me just works fine. I think I would get a 70-80% efficiency rate looking at how the bubles get very very small as they reach the surface.
I have a couple of CO2 bookmarked,
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm
http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html#3

[weird]

Thanks Bad Inferno for the links, the first one I found really helpful ... the table was very useful.

[Bad Inferno]

My target is 6.4 pH and it is amazing how acurate you can set the pH with the controller. You will also need what is called ph buffers to calibrate the meter (4,7 & 10). Make sure you buy these and check the calibration every week when you first start out. Look for another topic about pH meters I remember talking about correct usage of buffers and distilled water.

[weird]

I will put in the order this week. Hopefully I should get my 4ft in about 1 week, which will give me about 3 weeks to play around with the CO2 unit, while the tank is cycling.

[Bad Inferno]

what filter are you going to use ?

[weird]

Fluval 404. I was planning on bleeding the CO2 into the intake ? I was originally inspired by Don Moyle, and his post on the ada site. He also used a Fluval 404, and as I already had experience with a Fluval 104 which I liked, I thought I would just upsize it for my new tank.

[Bad Inferno]

I read once that the Fluvals are not so tolerant to air trapped in the canister, Eheim are alot more tolerant to trapped air. (Some CO2 will not disolve and hang around the impeller) If this gives problems you can always move it to the return side of the filter or just use an air stone directly into the tank.

[Bad Inferno]

Another chart

http://users.bigpond.com/rohan.t/co2_chart.htm

[weird]

I am pretty sure Don Moyle made a comment in his spread, that this would sometimes happen, maybe I should expect it now. Atleast I can now calmly explain to guests that, "no that is not the sound of an impending erruption of CO2 in your face."

I think feeding the co2 through an air stone is a great idea, but I will give the fluval a chance. Abit of noise occassionally is bearable.

You triggered in me in one of your first comments of what plants you have had success with to find out what I am actually going to be planting ... I found a great article here ... http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/PAM_Discus.htm

which has given me a basic plan to start off with these ...


Background Plants: Anubias

Foreground and Centerpiece plants (have many) : Echinodorus family (includes Amazon swords)

Might also include some Microsorum familty (Microsorum pteropus - Java Fern) and Vallisneria

[flukes]

Damn didnt know ph controllers were so cheap, could have got this kit together alot earlier.

I ve heard similar things about Co2 getting trapped in fluvals, is it really worth damaging you filter? A reactor can be made very easily, or the good old air stone will do.

[Al]

When i bought my SMS122 and regulator they gave me 10% the regulator because i bought them together.

So its well worth getting them together...

[weird]

I now understand Flukes.

Yes, I will be building a DIY external CO2 reactor / diffuser <wish I knew this earlier would not have bought fluval ! bloody hindsight>


Something like this maybe:
http://www.aquaticscape.com/articles/co2reactor.htm

If you know of any other great links please share =)

[Al]

you might loose some CO2 if you just use an air stone in the tank, but if you are going to build and external reactor it should be efficient. Providing there isn't too much surface agitation.

I have a modified sponge filter on my filter intake with the CO2 tubing going into sponge. From there, the bubbles go through a DIY reactor (an old gravel vac with bio balls in it) to the canister filter. I don't get CO2 build up in my filter unless i turn the CO2 rate up REALLY fast.

[weird]

It might be possible to modify a Bio-Clear Sponge Filter Double ?

I can see some possiblilities here....

[Al]

Sorry, no pics. My Reactor is hidden behind my tank and a little hard to get to.

But i used a gravel vac i had lying around to show you what it looks like.

Just make sure you have taken the one way valves out, silicon the caps on and your laughing.

I used a gravel vac pipe with a 50mm diameter, this fits the bioballs in easily. The biggest advantage of this size, is that the caps have 13mm pipe connections which is the same size as on my filter.

Just as a side note, The idea behind a reactor is to create turbulent mixing of the CO2 and water. This turbulence also creates a head loss across the reactor and thus reduces your filter output. So if you are borderline on water turnover consider a seperate pump to run your reactor.

[weird]

Awesome, thanx for posting the pics ... I really like your design ... simple, clean and highly innovative.

[flukes]

If you know how a protein skimmer works on salt water tanks you can use a similar design.

If you put the out take from your cannister going in the gravel vac so the water goes down, then add you Co2 outtake too the bottom so the Co2 goes up against the current. With bio balls in there for extra turbulance you should get close too 100% diffusion.

[buttnaked]

I'm setting up a complete Automated Dupla Co2 kit. The only two items not "Dupla" is the Co2 cylinder and bubble counter (Aqua Medic).

I've got a brand new 4.5kg Co2 Cylinder (fits under my stand) from USA, then I got BOC to change the US Valve connection to Aust standard valve. It cost $50 for the valve change plus cylinder testing and $31 for Co2 Gas (filled one time only by BOC because of testing). Every other refills will have to be at my Aquarium shop in Matraville.

I should have everything running by Monday.

[weird]

Haha ! awesome . Can't wait to see the pics , and might have to pop into your store ;)

[buttnaked]

Haha! My mistake Weird.

It's not my shop. What I mean was my local aquarium shop I go to.

It was late when I post :lol:

Yeah I will take a couple pics to show you.