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arjay
Wed Apr 19, 2006, 06:12 AM
I was going to order some Apistos from SLS's current shipment but my wife decided that she wanted to buy a house rather than renew our lease so I had to put that idea on hold. Instead I bought a trio of A. cacatuoides for my planted tank as a next best option.

The tank was setup as an aquascaping project and has no caves or pots so I thought there wasn't much chance that they'd spawn. At the end of the 1st week I had to take the smaller female out because the other female was bullying her mercilessly and 2 days later the two remaining fish spawned behind the one rock in the tank.

The eggs have hatched and the female is constantly moving the wrigglers from one position to another around the rock and keeping the male and 2 Otos well away.

Just a couple of questions. What's the chance that the fry will survive in the tank once they're free swimming (no predators other than the 2 Apistos)? And how long until I should be looking at moving them to another tank (the one they're in is only an 18" job)?

parkap
Wed Apr 19, 2006, 06:15 AM
arjay,

Can't really help on the raising the fry side of things, but the only apisto's I've ever had spawn in my community tank are caca's. Although no babies ever survived - but that's mainly because they put their eggs in a tunnel of a really big rock right near my water inlet so the babies got washed away.

Any chance of putting a photo of the male up?

BTW - well done.

p.

arjay
Wed Apr 19, 2006, 06:32 AM
Excuse the water colour, I ripped out some Ambulia over the weekend and the Aqua-basis + in the substrate went into suspension and due to the extra nutrients I now have green water... :roll:

I don't know how this guy matches up to what you get in the eastern states but for Adelaide this is an exceptional specimen... :wink:

parkap
Wed Apr 19, 2006, 06:36 AM
Very nice body structure. He looks young stil. How old is he? The colours are coming along very nicely.

arjay
Wed Apr 19, 2006, 06:48 AM
No idea how old I'm afraid, I've only had them for a week and a half and I don't think the LFS had had them long either.

These are easily the most robust cacatuoides I've seen here. The specimens we usually get just sit on the bottom of the shop's tank looking pretty dreadful but these guys would swim up and down against the front glass whenever someone would walk past. I wasn't really after any fish at the time but for an Apisto starved city these were too good to pass up...

Th0mas
Wed Apr 19, 2006, 07:24 AM
Congratulation.

From your descriptions, I would relocate the otos.

When the wigglers become free swimmers, they can wander off from mum and end up near an oto's mouth.

Green water is good for fry, shouldn't worry. Now is probably the time to setup a BBS hatchery. Microworm is okay, but BBS is much better.

Thomas.

arjay
Wed Apr 19, 2006, 07:47 AM
Set up a hatchery last night so I'm okay there. Will probably relocate the Otos tonight mostly because they're getting a really hard time from the female. She'd have to be one of the most aggressive fish I've come across. I had to remove 5 ember tetras because she almost killed them. She's fine with the male thankfully - she just pushes him away with a couple of sweeps of her caudal fin.

Provided they survive how long do you think it'll be before I'll need to relocate the fry for practical reasons (an 18" tank isn't going to be able to support too many fish)?

Namn8r
Wed Apr 19, 2006, 09:02 AM
Hi arjay,

hes a nice looking fish, feed him tetra bits and you will see him colour up even better!

Get hold of some frozen baby brineshrimp as its much easier, the young are good to stay with the mum for a couple of weeks after free swimming but you will find they will start disappearing. Caca mums are great parents but it does take a toll on them. I would suggest siphoning out the babies after dark. The mum will bring them back to the cave once dark and they will all be together and easy to siphon.

steph
Wed Apr 19, 2006, 11:32 PM
And dont take out all the other fish either. WIth no one to take out her aggression on she may turn on the male.

Congrats on the spawn :)

Cheers

Steph

Robdog
Mon May 08, 2006, 03:23 AM
I'll second that steph. I just had male and female in small breeding tank and they had eggs where I couldn't see and she thumped him until he gave up because he couldn't get away.
Now she's only got baby bristlenose to chase around and she'll NEVER catch them (Famous last words).

Need some advice tho. This is the first spawn that I've raised leaving the mother to look after fry. The growth rate is much MUCH better but how long should I leave her in there??
At first she would scoop them up in her mouth if they got away from her but I reckon they'd struggle to fit in now. They were born on ANZAC day so they are going on 2 weeks now.

Robdog
Mon May 08, 2006, 03:25 AM
Just so I'm not hijacking this thread, how are your babies going arjay? :oops:

arjay
Mon May 08, 2006, 06:07 AM
Just so I'm not hijacking this thread, how are your babies going arjay? :oops:
They're going really well. I removed the male so now it's just her and the kids. There are around 40 - 45 left and they're looking very healthy so with any luck I should get quite a few out of the first spawning.

A funny thing is saw last night - one of the fry attacked a full-sized brineshrimp that I was feeding the mother, the mother saw the movement, consumed both the fry and the brineshrimp and then spat out just the fry... I thought the little guy was a goner for sure... The female Cacs are fantastic mothers...

Robdog
Mon May 08, 2006, 07:22 AM
So going by your first post, your guys are probably a few days older than mine. When do you plan on pulling the mother or babies??

fishgeek
Mon May 08, 2006, 07:27 AM
oto's have never been a concern inmy tanks as predators
as others have said it is good to have at least one target fish to focus the parents attention
dependant on feeding (and hence growth0 you can seperate the fry as early as 2 weeks free swimming or as late as 2 mths free swimming

by the time the fry are approx 1cm in length there wont be much parenting going on

if you see the mother return to a cave and think she is spawning then remove the babies , unless it is in the very short term and the firt fry have not developed fast, then she may raise 2 spawns together

as the fry get older they then only end up predating their younger siblings

as far as tank size , it shouldn't matter as long as you regularly change water with your increased feeding for fry growth , if you have the time then smal daily changes

andrew

Robdog
Mon May 08, 2006, 07:27 AM
Just before I posted my last msg I dumped some frozen BS into the tank for the mother and I saw one of the fry wrestling with one of the smaller shrimp just like yours.

arjay
Mon May 08, 2006, 07:28 AM
Slight problem there... I'm running out of space and my wife isn't too keen on me getting any more tanks (the 30" for the new Tefes was struggle enough)... I'll probably try and persuade her that another 2 footer is necessary for the fry's survival and set one up whilst there's still time.

Th0mas
Mon May 08, 2006, 08:17 AM
Slight problem there... I'm running out of space and my wife isn't too keen on me getting any more tanks (the 30" for the new Tefes was struggle enough)... I'll probably try and persuade her that another 2 footer is necessary for the fry's survival and set one up whilst there's still time.

Totally understand your situation with the capacity problem. I'm having to deal with the same issue and just can't see how I can manage to setup a couple of more tanks without my wife noticing :twisted: .

Robdog
Mon May 08, 2006, 10:18 AM
Simple solution gentlemen. Get what every Aussie bloke should have and is entitled to- a shed!

I just wish I could take my own advice. I live in a 2nd floor apartment! Maybe a shed on stilts. I'm sure the body corp would have no problems :roll:

Th0mas
Mon May 08, 2006, 12:40 PM
Well I'm not much better - in a town house. A shed will never make it into that little backyard of mine. Need to get a house first......

Thomas.

steph
Tue May 09, 2006, 03:29 AM
As far as pulling fry I think any time from 2 weeks is OK, depends on other tank members. From 2 weeks they tend to wander a bit more and are more likely to get eaten by someone else.

Once they get going female apistos are such great mums... its fabulous to watch (speaking of which I havent seen my female trifasciata in days, and only floater in tank this morning is a dead cockroach)

I have a shed, we have a whole garage which we dont even put the car in and my other half still wont let me set up some more tanks!!! *sigh* Nothing like the attraction of cute little baby fish tho ;)

well done on all the spawns guys

steph

arjay
Thu May 11, 2006, 02:48 PM
The male that I moved out of the tank has spawned with another female in a community tank. The eggs were laid in between a couple of sword leaves and it's a very tight space. I noticed a minute ago that the female is covered in white lumps, I was worried for a moment but I realised that they're probably eggs. Is it common for eggs to become stuck to the female in such conditions?