baby discus dark

[sharn]

hi all, having wee probs with my small babies (4cm). theyve started going dark on and off with two darker permanently, one stays dark all the time (smallest) theyre also hiding alot, not eating as well and not pooping (that i can see)

tank is 60L, 30C, 50-75% water changes daily with aged water, ph 6.5-7 (will be getting a kit that dose the point ie 6.8 etc soon). unsure of hardness (kh or gh, which is more important, dont have much $$ till next wednesday) but will also be getting a test kit for that tomorrow hopefully. apparently our water is quite crap here so maybe that could be the cause, im getting a full run down on our water from the council on monday- hope its not too late!! i will be getting some peat tomorrow as well to add to their small air driven box filter, just to bring things down a bit.

im thinking maybe worms? im wanting to worm them anyway but because im in nz we dont have the same meds, we dont have those aqua one worming tablets etc anymore because people made drugs out of them :evil: so im not sure what we have in the way of wormers. what would be the main ones i need to worm for? we have met over here for hex, but its quite expensive and a hassle to get so wouldnt want to unless im sure its that (is hex the same as hith, cause its not that from what i can see)

sorry for all the questions, ist most likely water quality and worms, but i thought id sa you guys cause you know more than me. ive included two pics to show the colouration, not very good probably but its the best i can do :( if a tank shot would help i can get some, any pics you might need just ask

[Merrilyn]

Hi Sharn, I'm thinking it's hex rather than a worm infestation.

I'm not happy to hear that they're not eating. Juvenile fish should always be hungry, and ready for food. Naturally, if they're not eating, then you won't be seeing any droppings either.

I think a course of Metro is called for here before things progress further. Dark colouring is always a sign that something is not right.

[sharn]

ok, i know we can get met here, what should be the dose for the tank (60x30x30cm, 54L) ill have to print this sheet off as the vet wont prescribe it without sufficent evidence and theyve even asked people to go to the LFS and get them to diagnose it before they prescribe, which is silly, most LFS staff wouldnt know how to spot hex but we'll see how that gets on.

last night i gave them some bloodworms, saw them picking at it though not like they used to, this mornig it was gone but i assume snails ate it. will be getting some daphnia to give live foods a shot if i can find any. edit: woot!! i just gave them some flakes, went back in 20 mins and its gone so some of them must be eating :D

thanks heap, will let you know how the vet visit gets on

[Merrilyn]

Sharn, this is a fairly common problem with discus fish. I've added part of a post that I wrote in answer to another member who had problems with Hexemita. With your young fish, I would suggest using the lower dose for 3 to 5 days till symptoms dissapear, and the fish are all eating again.

If the fish are still eating, soaking some dry food with metro in water before feeding will ensure that the drug goes straight into the gut, where it will do the most good.

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It is believed that the pathogen responsible for Hole in the Head (also known by a variety of other names such as Hex, head and lateral line erosion and wasting disease) is Spironucleus Vortens.

An infected fish may show one or several of the following symptoms:-

Skin lesions around the head area.
Turning dark.
Refusing to eat.
White jelly like droppings.
Muscle wasting and pinched appearance above the eyes.

The best drug to use is Metronidazole (Flagyl) which you will need to get from your local vet. Ring first to see if he will prescribe it after seeing a photo of the fish, or if he insists on seeing the fish himself.

1. Do a 30% water change.
2. Set the temperature to 30 degrees, no higher.
3. Add 250 mg Metro per 40 Litres of water. Crush tablets to fine powder and mix with water to form a paste before adding to the tank.
4. After 12 hours, do another 30% water change and repeat the dose. This should be done for a total of 3 days.
5. During treatment the tank lights should be left off. Metro is affected by light.
6. A variety of good quality, high protein food with added vitamins and minerals should be fed several times daily. Include prepared dry food, beef heart, brine shrimp, green vegetable matter and blood worms in the diet. Remove any uneaten food and keep the water very clean.

This treatment is effective for early cases of Hex. If however, your fish has been showing symptoms for a long time, or is refusing food altogether, then the treatment needs to be more aggressive.

In that case, the dose rate would be 400mg per 40 litres of tank water, with a 30% water change between treatment. Repeat every 8 hours for a maximum of 10 days if necessary. Usually 5 to 7 days will be sufficient for symptoms to disappear.

Further reading can be found in the excellent article from Discus Page Holland

http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/spironucleus.shtml#1.%20%20Introduction%20–%20Comm on%20Symptoms

Hope that helps. Keep us posted on your progress.
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