Filtration for 4fts.

[flukes]

I am currently in the process of setting up 3 new 4fters and i was wondering how i could go about it filtration wise. I was thinking like 2 large sponge filters in each tank, but do you think this would be enough??
Also for 4ft tanks i was wondering if 200watt was enough?? Its has on the recommendation for 225-300ltr tanks. Or would it be better getting one 2x150 or 1x200 1x150???.

So will the sponge filters be enough or will i need a cannister or hang on and what kind of heating am i looking at??

Cheers
Scott

[IKeepFish]

Hi Flukes,

4'x18"x18" would give you 250 litres per tank

That 750 litres total.

Now what filter ?
Well firstly the idea on just a sponge filter is out.
Good for additional biological filtration and airation in a bare tank
or for short term use, but that about as far as they will stretch.

2. Depends on what you are going to do with them ??

If you are going to have plants then canister filters.
If they are to be bare then trickle filter is the way to go.
Plumb the tanks together and get a suitable size trickle filter.

Trickle filters are not suitable for a planted tank as they strip out too much
CO2, because they rely on highly oxygenating the water and the chemical filtration is done by aerobic bacteria on the bio balls.

I run 2 LARGE ( eheim 226 ) filters on one 4' tank
( Planted display tank )
There is no way I could afford 6 of these babies !

I also run a $ 50 pump in a trickle filter that cost me $ 100 + $ 100 for bio balls for 2 x 3' + 2 x 2' system. ( Bare breeding setup )

So, again I ask what are you going to do with the tanks ?
Do you want separate tanks or are you going to drill them and connect them into one system ?

As for heating ...
Again, It depends.
what is the ambient room temp ? -
Are the tanks to be in the house, garage or insulated fish room ?

My preference, if they were set up as individual tanks would be 2x150
or 2 x 200 watt for each tank to give even heat and not one hot spot
down one end.

If you use strong lighting this might not be an issue.

Once again I'll give my display tank as an example ...
It has a 40 watt UV filter, 2 x 40 watt 2' fluros, and a
1x 150 watt Metal Halide.
The single 150 watt heater maintains the temp at night when the lights are off ! 8)

It is never on during the day and I'm about to fit cooling fans to increase the airflow. I currently have the lids off on one side but the evaporation rate is too much.

If you are going to go with the one system setup then a would put a 300 watt in the sump and a 200 watt in each tank.
A heater in each tank will then allow you to isolate a tank if needed. and a 200 watt should be able to maintain the temp in a 4' by itself.

Keep me posted,

Regards,

IKeepFish

[flukes]

Well someone once said to me connecting all tanks would not be a good idea because if one tank gets deseased then all of them do. If i was going to join the tank together could i do it with out drilling?? Just because iam not confident with drilling tank. Also what would be needed and i think i might install a UV just incase i do get a desease. Have you got any idea's about setting this up?? I did a rough plan but this would have to be drilled tanks and i am not sure if i could get it done or be able to do it. Would aquariums beable to do it??

Anyway this is something rough i put together but id prefer not to drill tanks -
http://members.optusnet.com.au/flukes/3%20tank%20plan.JPG

Tell me what you think..

[flukes]

I realise that the fluval will need to be replaced with a sump and a pond pump, this was just a old sketch when i first thought of the idea.

[Proteus]

Awesum piece of artwork there Scott...

One thing I would def add... a UV Steriliser if they are to be common filtered...

[flukes]

That "art work" took me 8 hours using paint shop pro 8.0 using many features.

(really i did it in paint shop pro in about 5mins but shhhhhh)

[flukes]

Well i was thinking of making this design it was given to me as an idea from a another forum. The only question is, would it be better to be run by air or a power head. I was thinking i would need 2 in each tank, i cant see the difference between this and a cannister filter.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/flukes/filter.JPG

What i need to know -

1. Air pump or power head??

2. Will two of these in each tank be enough filtration or will one be enough?

3. Is there any othe media i could use in the "middle" basket. With the bio balls.?

4. Will another filter be need??



I dont want all 3 tanks connected as i dont want the same water specs in each tank, and also if on tank is deseased all tanks are. But i can see if iam running 2xpower heads (air pump), 2xheaters and lights on each tank then its going to eat up alot of power. If i could use air that would be good but id rather get a good flow rate through the filter.

Any comments would be great.

Cheers
Scott

[flukes]

I ve seen many people running 4ft tanks, with simple sponge filters using air, so in my mind this would be good enough to run one of these is each tank. Only thing is how do i work out what air pump is needed to power one of these filters in a 4ft tank. With a powerhead its would be 1000p/h as that 4times the tank volumes an hour but how do i work that out in air. The reason i would rather use air is that this system is going to be used on a 3 tier stand and i want to run all these filters in 3 tanks of one large air compressor. Rather than running 3 different power heads.


Cheers
Scott

[IKeepFish]

Hi Scott,

Interesting Idea.
Air would definitely be the cheapest to run. You can get a small Hailipai 30 watt that ouptus 50 litres per minute for around $ 100. Powerheads are going to chew more that 30 watts.
But your problem is going to be ... Does it generate enough water flow ?
To generate high flow you are going to have to have a lot of air going through each filter. Lots of bubbles !
I would suggest a slight modification of the filter to extend the 15mm riser to the surface and add a 90 degree fitting to the top. This will reduce the reduce the disturbance to the water caused by the bubbles and give you a quieter system that will stress the fish less.

You will also be able to see the amount of water flowing out of the riser back into the tank.

Now, will one per tank be enough ?
The recommendation for bio balls is 1 per litre of water. so for a 4' tank of 250 litres you need 250 balls, BUT that is if the balls were in a trickle filter !!! That is, IF they were in optimum aerobic conditions. Yours will NOT be exposed to air so their bacterial carrying capacity will be reduced, thus you will need more balls, possibly twice as many !
250 balls takes up a fair amount of space and this is another reason why you usually put your filter outside the tank.

An alternate medium would be ceramic tubes. These also have high surface area and are often used in "canister type" filters.
Volcanic material is also good.

You will probably need 2 units to get the equivalent filtration of a decent canister filter.
It all depends on your stocking level, the amount of food / waste and the frequency of you water changes.
Given that it will take time "mature" the filters and get them up to maximum bacterial load I would put in 2 per tank anyway. This will also allow you to clean alternate filters without losing all the filtration in a tank.


HTH,

Regards,
IKeepFish

[flukes]

Ok i was thinking 2 of these in each tank and a spogne filter aswell, i run power heads off the "DIY intank cannisters" and the sponge filter can be run by air. For media i was thinking a layer of bio-balls, then a layer of ceramic noodles and also some gravel. This should be enough surface area to grow enough bacteria. The tube is 100mm thick and the aquarium is 18inches high so say its 2 inches from the top of the tank thats 16inches. 2 of these and a sponge should do the job.
The tank will be stocked with 6 juvi discus and when they get older i will move them to seperate tanks. I dont really want to put discus in the bottom tank as i read on another post that they dont like it. The bottom tank sits 200mm off the ground and then the beam is 90mm so we will say 300mm(30cm) of the ground. Will this be high enough to house discus in?? If not i think i might but some peppermint bn's in there.
But as the discus get older and hopefully pair up i am now making a stand to hold breeding tanks, 2x14x18 which there should be 6 of, so that should be plenty.

Do you think 6 juvi's in a 4fter is too much?? My biggest one is a snakeskin that is about 9cm atm. I found a nice gal for him today but it was color fed tothe max (thanks kev for telling me how to notice it) and they where asking too much. But hopefully i should fine a partner for him soon.

Cheers
Scott

Also i dont think i am going to put a 4fter on the top as i am a bit worried about the weight, i think i might put a 3 fter and use it as a hosiptal tank.

[flukes]

Well i still need help on this as iam still undecided :cry: , If i go for an out side trickle filter iam going to need a pump that has a head height of at least 3m to get it too the top tank, and that means i ll have to have both tanks connected which is also undesirable incase of a deasease.
The other thing i was thinking of was putting in an internal overflow box, I havent got the tanks yet and i was going to make them myself, if i make the tanks 51inches and use 3inches for the overflow box It still has 4ft of swimming space. The only thing is you said i would need 250bio balls for this tank maybe more with the added overflow box. The room in the box would be probably 12'x3' its 18'wide but id use 3 inches on each side for the overflow and 3 inches for the pump to get it back to the tank, leaving 12'x3' inches of room for bio-balls. I dont think this is enough room to fit 250+ bio balls although i haven't worked it out i dont think it would be.
The only think i can think of that looks like it would work would be a trickle filter but this would mean the 2 tanks would be connected, so if i had to coonect the 2 tanks how would th trickle filter work??
Iam guessing the overflow from the top tank would go into the bottom tank and then that would overflow into the ticklefilter/sump and from three it would be pumped back into the upper tank. Iam understanding this correctly?? Iam so lost, i dont know what to do. The internal box seemed like a good idea because i really want it to be in the tank, and it would be easy to construct, its just a matter of will there be enough room to fit 250+ bio balls. Even if i run this overflow system and then another of thoughs DIY internal cannister filters (as in post above) this might be enough filtration.

Some please guys i am racking my brain here!!
I think in the end i might end up with a fluval 404 and a couple of sponge filters.

Cheers
Scott