New Sump

[Hollowman]

Just a couple of pics of a new sump I have made from a 48" x 15" x 12" tank that was given to me. As you can see it is divided into 5 sections with weirs in between. I have changed the configuration a little to suit my filter media but the top drawing is pretty much how it came together in the end. Bio-balls now sit in the middle compartment and alfa grog either side. The larger gap in the last weir is to accommadate final filter floss to polish the water before it goes through the pump and into the tanks.

Anyway, hope this helps anyone who is thinking of doing the same.

[pink66]

thanks H. I love my sump but the configuration drives me crazy.. really hard to clean and get to.. it also ends up with way too much yucky stuff down at the pump end..

One day when I get the time (hopefully some time this year :lol: ) I am going to rebuild and expand mine to be more user friendly.. this will be of great assistance..

just one question.. does this end up in a cabinet under the tank or does it sit out and exposed.. my issue is getting the thing in and out on the odd occassion.. (like when I flood the floor and need to get the cabinet base out to get to the 1inch of water sitting there :oops: )

[ILLUSN]

Nice looking sump, love the double baffles, did you reseal the 4 footer? just looks like you've got a nice healthy bead of silicone in all the joins.

[Hollowman]

Hi ILLUSN,

The story behind the tank is that I got it from a guy that I work, who had kept it in his back garden for a few years, he told me it might leak, so I said I'd have it anyway, didn't cost me anything :wink:

I got it home and filled it to the brim and yes, it did leak on one corner about 3 inches down. As I poked the corner on the long side to see how much it would move, the side gave way, I got a good soaking. Long story short, I had to take the side off completely and re-do the whole thing. I cut out all the interior sealant but leaving the brace bars, and re-sealed the whole thing. I think it makes it look like new now, plus I know that it has been done right :) I always use plenty of sealer, I found a cheap source of sealer at £2.98 per tube, in the lfs it is £10 a tube.

The partitions are made of 6mm acrylic sheet. The weir configuration basically make the water rise up through the filter media for maximum coverage, then it has to rise over the top and down to do the same again, the last wider weir for the floss should stop me getting a build up of mulm in the pump end. (pink66 :) )

Once I ge my new system up and runnning, might be a few months yet, I'll post up some more pics of it in action. Glad you liked it :)

Steve

[jimmyg]

Nice sump Hollowman, I just picked my sump up last week and getting all the tanks plumbed I will post a complete thread on how I did it and the problems I have faced andsolved them

Itis a massive learning curve and I will be posting my new pairs I have.

[TW]

Nice Sump Steve

How many & what size tanks are you able to run from that one sump?

[Hollowman]

Hi Robyn,

I plan on running a system of around 700ltrs but hope to add to that. I am sure the sump will allow me to add more to my original plan. I have 2 - 30" x 18" x 15" and 3 - 20" x 18" x 15" which will form the hub of the system, but I also have a few other tanks that I might incorporate as grow outs. The system will be made so that there is plenty of room for expansion.

Steve :)

[mistakes r crucial]

That sump will run 1500-2000 litres no worries.
Cheers
MAC

[Hollowman]

Hi MAC, you can never have too much filtration imo. :) Gives me scope toy expand or grow out too. :D

[TW]

I am more or less copying your sump, Steve. How many litres per hour does your pump do?

[Hollowman]

Hi Robyn,
As it is just turning over in it'self right now I only have an Eheim 1250 running, which is 1200 ltrs/hour, but once on the system it will have the Eheim 1262 which runs at 3400 ltrs/ hour.

Copy away my friend, I posted so others can see how I did it, I am flattered you like it enough to do it. :D

Steve

Here are a couple of pics of it in use.

[TW]

Hi Steve

Thans for info & pics :)

The media looks to be sitting on something. The bio balls look to have something on top of them. In both cases, is it egg crate?

[Hollowman]

Yes it is Robyn.

Bot the egg crate is resting on some white 1" diameter plastic water pipe so that the water gets an even flow underneath and up through the media. The Crate on top of the bio balls is to stop them from getting out, they are a bit boyant :roll:
The plastic pipe is glued in with aquatic silcon running with the flow of water. The yellow hose is just delivering water from the pump to the sponge end. :)

[TW]

Thanks again Steve

Is the 1" diameter plastic water pipe hooked up to anything or are you simply using it to raise the egg crate up a bit?

You have foam going up the side walls, I think. Is that for insulation?

What do you think about lids on sumps. I was thinking of having lids made for mine, as I sometimes have my little lorikeet wandering around the fishroom. Any reason not to have a lid on a sump?

[Hollowman]

Yes, the plastic pipe is purely to support the crate. The 'foam' you see is 25mm polystyrene, just for insulation, it is normally completely covered, even the lids are covered. I have lids that fit the top in two halves, but there is a 3" gap one end to allow air to be drawn in. I don't know of any reason not to have lids on a sump. :wink:

[TW]

Thanks for the great info. This will be my first time with a sump. Is the foam glued into place?

[Hollowman]

Yes, just a few blobs of silicon to fix it on. I didn't go over the top, as long as it hugs the sides it will insulte the tank. :)

[Old Dave]

Just a little more on sumps...

Like to find out why I had about 10 gallons of water on the floor when setting up the sump on Mrs Old Dave's new tank?? :evil: :evil:

It seems syphons can be a blessing or a curse.
When I turned the power off I expected the water from the weir to flow into the sump but it just kept on coming!!
Eventually I woke up that the water was syphoning back down the "RETURN!" hose. Of course I was about 10 gallons too late. :oops: :blob2 :oops:

Anyway, the fix.
You can buy a Non Return Valve from a store that sells agricultural supplies (don't bother with Bunnings they don't even know these things exist :evil: ).
The alternative is to drill a hole (~4-6mm) in the return pipe below the max water level in the tank. mine is about 30mm below.
This allows a certain amount to return to the sump so the tank doesn't overflow when you put your arm in. :wink: :wink:

Simply put, the hole in the return breaks the syphon at a given depth and protects the floor. Just make sure it doesn't get blocked.

The other thing with sumps is to make certain you have a safety switch to protect YOU!!

Thanks for all your great posts,

Old Dave

[Hollowman]

Bummer Dave, lol, but what is keeping fish if you don't have a flood every now and again :lol:

Here are a couple of ideas, just put a tee on your tank pipework that will stop the siphon effect. Pics below

[Old Dave]

Interesting mod for the external standpipe.
If it gets too noisy you can add 2x 135 degree bends on the "drop".

My back syphoning problem was on the hose returning to the tank from the sump pump.

Great looking racking. Welded & hammertone paint. Totally solid.
I still use the hammer & nails support systems. :wink:

Thanks,

Old Dave

[Hollowman]

Great looking racking. Welded & hammertone paint. Totally solid.
I still use the hammer & nails support systems. :wink:

Thanks,

Old Dave

Unfortunately thats not my setup Dave, but mine is also welded and silver hammerited paint too :wink:

[TW]

Hi Steve

Back again with another question. I had my 4ft converted into a sump, with the divisions based exactly on yours. I did a test run with water. What I see is that in those compartments where I believe the water is meant to overflow from the top into the next compartment, that next compartment is already starting to fill with water when the previous compartment is only 1/2 filled. So the joints must not be sealed properly & they are not water tight.

Does this matter? I am thinking it does, as not all of the water is being forced in the direction intended. But maybe it doesn't matter ??? Thought I'd ask your opinion.

I know some of the compartments don't have the divider reaching to the tank floor, so I am not talking about those ones.

Thanks for your time, once again :)

[ILLUSN]

Robyn it really doesn't matter that much. if your worried run a bead of silicone around the joints again and press it in with your finger. that will fill any small gaps left over from construction.

[TW]

Bot the egg crate is resting on some white 1" diameter plastic water pipe so that the water gets an even flow underneath and up through the media.Hi Steve, back again :)

My media must be made of somewhat smaller individual pieces than yours & so would have been small enough to fall through the egg crate grid. So, I have put some fly wire on top of the egg crate & the media sits on it & no longer can fall through. If that was the wrong thing to do, would you mind letting me know.

Another question :)
in the section where you have your sponges, you have 2 sorts of sponges. I guess some fine & some course. Is there an order to put them in, ie fine on top or course on top?

[Hollowman]

Hi Robyn,

A good idea to use the fly wire, as long as it is not made of something that is going to corrode or leech into the water. As for the sponges, yes they are different, but to be honest, they are in randomly. What a will have though is some filter floss over the top of the sponge to catch anything that gets sucked in, like food, or rubbish, so |i can dispose of it when it gets too dirty.

hth
Steve

[TW]

Hi Robyn,

A good idea to use the fly wire, as long as it is not made of something that is going to corrode or leech into the water. Not sure what they fly wire is made of, but can find out. I thought it might be aluminium.

If aluminium, will that be ok?

Otherwise, maybe I will buy just a small amount of larger media to use as as a bottom layer & then my smaller media will sit on top & not fall through.


H As for the sponges, yes they are different, but to be honest, they are in randomly. What a will have though is some filter floss over the top of the sponge to catch anything that gets sucked in, like food, or rubbish, so |i can dispose of it when it gets too dirty.
Ah, I was planning on my soft sponges being the filter floss - but i need fine sponges as well. Okay, off to Clark Rubber next weekend.

[TW]

Sorry, couldn't edit the above post & I forgot one question.

It is an illusion, or are the tall narrow sections free of media. If they are to be kept free, then unless I do change to a larger chunkier media then, the media I am using is small enough that it will spill under & at least a small amount of media in those tall narrow sections will be unavoidable. Is that a problem?

Sorry for the questions, but I have never had a sump & don't know what things are important & what things are okay to change.

[Hollowman]

As long as there is sufficient flow, meaning there is no restriction for the water you will be ok, even some of my grog has fallen through, but I am not worried. You'll be ok. :)

[TW]

Thanks. My spillover won't be a small amount though. I suggest I will not be able to avoid about a solid 1-2cm of media in those narrow sections, unless I change to something chunkier. If that 1-2cm is not a problem, then I'll stick to what I have.

If the fly screen is aluminium - will that be ok?

[Noddy65]

Hi Robyn
Fly screen comes as aluminium or as nylon...the nylon wont rust...the metal stuff has rusted for me before so I assume its not pure aluminium....
Another option would be to put a piece of course sponge on the bottom.

Im starting up my first sump system this weekend so Im reading this with interest. :D

Regards
Mike

[TW]

Hi Mike & Steve

Just checked my invoice & it says that the fly screen is fibreglass. Will fibreglass rust?

[Noddy65]

Nope...fibreglass should be fine :D

Mike

[TW]

good to hear, thanks Mike

Steve, I see that your media is free in the various divisions. By that I mean it is not contained in a media bag. Is that because you get more even flow through the media. I saw somewhere else where someone had a sump & their media was in media bags, but could this allow some water to miss out on being forced through the media? Would that matter? Would it make much difference?

[Hollowman]

Robyn, the water will bt nature take the easiest route, therefore if you contain the media, it will not get the flow over it. So you are tight, better imo to be free to get the water flowing through it. :)

[Old Dave]

Just checked my invoice & it says that the fly screen is fibreglass. Will fibreglass rust?

Personally I find shade cloth a really good product to use in filters.
The higher the percentage blockout the better.
You can use it flat as in this case (several layers) or roll it up and use it in corner filters or power heads!!
Use it as mechanical or biological filter media.
And cheap!!

Fibreglass screen might deteriorate and put small particles of GRP into the water and potentially eaten.

JMO, but give it a try.

HTH
Old Dave

[mcloughlin2]

Hollowman, a concern I have with this sump design is that you have filter media that is primarily a biological media in the first chamber. From my experiance and understanding it decreases the effectiveness of the biological media if it has to trap larger waste as the pores in the media clog reducing surface area available to bacteria.

Have you found this to be a problem? Personally I would have had a course sponge before the grog and bio balls as a pre filter so that they then only have to consume dissolved wastes.

[Hollowman]

A good observation, I have filter floss on the top of the sponge to take out any larger particulate waste.I can then replace the floss or wash it out to save the sponges clogging. The photos of the sump that I posted are during a fishless cycle, therefore no waste to worry about.

Steve

[TW]

mcloughlin2, Steve

Doesn't the first chamber contain the sponges? I thought that sponges were mechanical filtration (as well as biological?

Or do you refer to the 1st chamber that has grog in it as being the "first chamber"? Would it be better to use noodles in that chamber

[Hollowman]

Sponges are both Robyn, you are right. They can clog up, so I use removeable/cleanable floss to catch the detrius, this leaves the sponges to do thier job. It was just my choice to use grog in the second chamber, cheaper than noodles, as you need quite a bit to fill the space. :)

[TW]

Don't know how I missed the mistake in my sump before now, but I guess it won't matter too much??? It came back from the tank maker with one chamber too few. Only noticed this as I was comparing how my media layout compared with your earlier picture. Your set up has 5 sections, with weirs in between & mine has only 4 sections with weirs in between.

I plan to have sponges (same position as yours), next section will have noodles & next section will have scoria.

Not only do I have less sections, I think my sections may be narrower than yours. The section for the scoria is 15cm wide. Will this provide me with enough beneficial bacteria load to run 2 x 4ft tanks above. I had also hoped it would allow me to expand down the track & eventually have another 2 x 4ft running off this sump? Will it be enough?

[ILLUSN]

A 2217 is good for a 200-300L tank with 5L of biomedia, if your tank is a std 4 footer (4x14x18 tall) then each section has just over 14L (24x15x35cm of media capacity if we assume that scoria has 1/2 the capacity of eheim substrate then with just 2 sections if my maths are right you have capacity to filter 500-800L plenty for 2 4 foot tanks, if you use 3 sections of scoria and just 1 section for sponges your capacity jumps to 750-1200L dont you just love sumps :)

[TW]

So scoria only has half the capacity of eheim substrate? Is that right?

Each of my sections is 37cm High x 14cm Wide x 34.5cm Deep.

If I use one of my sections for noodles, then I only have 1 section left for scoria (not 2). If I give up the idea of using noodles then I have 2 sections for scoria. The sump was meant to have 3 sections available for either scoria or a mixture of scoria/noodles - not sure why I ended up one compartment short :(

Is it more important to have a larger capacity of biological media (scoria) then to have a mixture. In other words, would I be better off forgetting the noodles altogether?

[Hollowman]

I would go for the more scoria, more surface area than the noodles, so more helpfull nitrifying bacteria = more fish :wink: and yes....sumps are great :lol:

[ILLUSN]

Robyn I'm not saying that it has 1/2 the capacity, I'm just making an assumption, with those measurements then each compartment has 17L of capacity, so 2 sections is 34L (good for 700L-1050L) which is still heaps for 2 four footers

[Noddy65]

Hi Robyn
My first sump is being delivered tonight (hopefully)...its basically a 3 footer x 18 x 20 ish...Ill be running between 1000 - 1500 litres depending on the system...Im happy theres enough capacity in there to filter that quantity of water.
Ive made them pretty high (50 cm I think) so I can add extra media if I think it needs it.

Mike :D

[TW]

Thanks Mike & Jothy

Steve, i notice that your sections aren't filled to capacity with the grog. Is there a reason for that? Any problem filling them to the top?

[Hollowman]

:lol: no, I just need some more, I just evened it out :D