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benanddebbie
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 09:56 PM
Yesterday morning I did a water change as per normal. Last night before the lights went out the fish were all behaving normally and seemed very happy. However this morning I have come out and all the discus and all the schooling fish are at the surface gasping for air.

I have a few dead cardinals and the majority of the discus have lost colour and are patchy white. (bit like a dead fish).

I have checked all tests and everything seems normalexcpet the phosphates which we already knew about (that was why we were doing water change). I have put an airstone in..

WHat else should I do??? I pray they are not all dead by the time hubby comes home.

DiscusEden
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 10:23 PM
What are your Ammonia levels?

benanddebbie
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 10:32 PM
My ammonia levels are fine.

I now have our biggest discus that has sunk to the bottom and is lying on his side.

Want to take the discus out but only have a 2 ft tank that has a pair in and a 4ft that has angels in. So have no where to out them really.

Any ideas?

scott bowler
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 10:58 PM
was the water colder and the ph the same as in your tank when you did the change ?

benanddebbie
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 11:03 PM
Did the water change as per normal. Not had a problem previously.

The watrer was about same temp and the ph is 7.0. Our tap water is vary alkaline but we age treat with prime and occasionally have to lower ph. to accept able levels.

Prior to water change tank ph was 7.2

Now it is 7.0


I had a thought about removing my angels to a tub and putting my discus in the angel tank.

Not sure whether this will stress them more esp considering we already have our biggest fish lying on the bottom of the tank, alive but none the less on the bottom on his side.
Any thoughts?

scott bowler
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 11:15 PM
did you do any thing that was diffrent at all , did you vac the gravel or move things around ? . can you put another air stone in and drop the ph just a little slowly. what is the tenp of the tank. i just worry if you move the fish the shock may not help .

benanddebbie
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 11:24 PM
temp is sitting around 29-30

Did nothing I do not normally do for a water change.

benanddebbie
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 11:26 PM
This morning when I have had the lights on the fish had gone down in to the tank, with some swimming around and the other hiding behind the drift wood.

However I have turned the lights off again and they are all back at the top gasping air. (except the one on the bottom)

scott bowler
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 11:30 PM
have you had a lot of rain up there lately ? i know here in sydney the put heaps of cems in the water after rain here , do you have some prime give the tank a dose with that and cross your fingers , some one else my have some other ideas , i wish i could help more , can you put some pics up and show us how the fish is look ing ?

benanddebbie
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 11:34 PM
had a little bit of rain here in town on Friday night. Out of town they got about 16mm and in next town 80km away they got a fair bit.

Will see what I can do in reagrds to photos. The tank is slightly green as I said previously the phosphate levels are up which is why we were doign a water change.

I have prime and can dose with that. I did use it yesterday when I did the water change. Should I dose again today?

Thanks for your help even a little is great.

benanddebbie
Sun Feb 18, 2007, 11:39 PM
Just remembered something....although can't see how it makes a difference.

Hubby took out a sponge filter he had in the tank. The 6x2x2 tank is a community tank which runs with two cannister filters, heaters and UV. Over the last week and a half he has had a sponge filter in there to build up bacteria ( not for filtration of the tank) Anyway yesterday he took the sponge filter out and put it into a different tank.

Can't see how that changes anything but worth a try. That is all I can account for difference.

DiscusEden
Mon Feb 19, 2007, 12:05 AM
I read somwhere that you can put double the dose of Prime (all together, so add 1 dose today). If there has been rain, the water company may have put extra chlorine or chloramine in the water.

benanddebbie
Mon Feb 19, 2007, 12:21 AM
Have dosed again with prime. Not sure to leave light son or not but with lights on the discus are not at the top of the tank.

After putting the prime in the bigest discus on the bottom of the tank has swum around the tank a little disorientated bumping into things then been up at top of tank nose up. Finally has sunk (on top of other discus) and is on corner of tank.

Fingers crossed. Don't know what else to do.

Should I do another water change? No too much stress on fish. I want them to survive not wipe out the 14 discus in the tank.

samir
Mon Feb 19, 2007, 12:46 AM
i suggest doing a very big water change with a double dose of prime

benanddebbie
Mon Feb 19, 2007, 01:01 AM
How big do you suggest the tank is 6x2x2 Yesterdays water change was a big one.

samir
Mon Feb 19, 2007, 01:18 AM
hmmm :? do you have activated charcoal ? try filtering with that.
If you're not concerned with mixing them with angels, I'd suggest putting a couple in with the angels. If there's an improvement put the whole lot in.

samir
Mon Feb 19, 2007, 01:30 AM
sounds like chlorine :? i think taking them out and putting them in with the angels may be the best option. give them heavy aeration. drop the water level a bit so the canister splashes and add every airstone you got. i cannot think of anything else. hope they get better.

Merrilyn
Mon Feb 19, 2007, 04:28 AM
Hi Debbie, I'm so sorry to hear about your fish.

From the timing alone, this suggests there is something wrong with the new water that you added to the tank. I'm not sure what it is, but the first thing to do is get those discus out of there....fast. If you have to put them in the four foot with the angels, then do it, and as Samir said, add lots of airstones.

The water in the angels tank, although high in phosphates, will be better than the water you just put in the six footer. Add a little cooking salt to the water, 1 heaped teaspoon per 40 litres of water to help with the breathing.

Don't be tempted to change any water in the 4 foot tank just at the moment.

Did you do a pH test before you changed the water ?

If we rule out ammonia as the problem, then the only other thing is pH shock. I think it might be a wise move to test your angel tank water, the 6 foot tank water and the water out of your tap. Any big differences between the three could spell problems.

I'm wondering if your pH in the 6 footer was quite low, amybe in the 6s or even 5s. A big water change could have swung the pH to over 7 and that would certainly be causing the fish some distress, and for small tetras it would be fatal.

benanddebbie
Mon Feb 19, 2007, 07:38 AM
Thanks Ladyred for your reply

I did do Ph on 6 ft before water change and also the angel tank. The results are as follows:

6ft before water change 7.1
4 ft 7.1
Tap water none aged or treated is as alkaline as you can get
RO Water is 7.0
6ft after water change is 7.2

I wouldn't have thought the ph would have changed too dramatically in the 6 ft before and after the water change.

I have air stones in the tank and the schooling fish seem to be doing fine. Some of the discus have some colour returning and a little happier. The biggest one is still at the bottom of the tank not looking to good. The juvies and small discus are still at the top of the tank.

scott bowler
Tue Feb 20, 2007, 02:19 AM
hi guys how are they going to day hope things have picked up for you ? have to say that with help from LR you will go in the right direction , very smart lady , good luck guys

benanddebbie
Tue Feb 20, 2007, 09:43 PM
Hi guys

Thanks again to everyone that helped. We lost one small discus, a few cardinals, a siamensis (sp?) and rummy nose.

The rest of the fish including the discus and our biggest one are looking much happier and comfortable.

The tank itself has gone completely green!!!!! Not sure what went on but at least the discus are now doing better.

Again thank you for all your help.

samir
Tue Feb 20, 2007, 10:29 PM
must be the phosphates you mentioned earlier. I think it must have been chlorine or chloramine.
I've recently started to get these problems after water changes and so have a couple of others on the forum. maybe it has to do with the dam levels. :?